Domestication issues (realism)

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I have been thinking on the first post while updating the megafauna units to have a heritage building to allow them to be built in all cities. What if we change the stable line of buildings?

Current stables are for horses, camels, llama and deer line of units and only give exp to those.

New line of stables for Elephants, Rhinos and Bison units cost 1.5x to build and have -

New line of stables for Mammoth and Bear units costs 2.5x and have a bigger cost.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Why that combo?

It would better off having a stable for each type or related species such as Elephant/Mammoth or Camel/Llama or Horse/Zebra.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I was going on size and difficulty.

 

[Northstar1989]

I have been thinking on the first post while updating the megafauna units to have a heritage building to allow them to be built in all cities. What if we change the stable line of buildings?

Current stables are for horses, camels, llama and deer line of units and only give exp to those.

New line of stables for Elephants, Rhinos and Bison units cost 1.5x to build and have -

New line of stables for Mammoth and Bear units costs 2.5x and have a bigger cost.

I strongly disagree with giving a food cost to Stables, or making them cost that much to build.


If you make the larger units that expensive, they simply won't get built at all (at least not by me or any rational player, anyways).


Stables are simply buildings (and already rather expensive ones at that), and the specialty ones shouldn't cost food- as they still have economic utility (elephants can, and are, used to help on farms, in India for example, even to this day).


Rather, the hammer/production cost of building these military units, and the gold cost of maintaining them (we already have mechanisms in place to make units cost extra gold in maintenance- we use them on units like the Story Teller) should reflect their actual cost.

But I don't think the units, as they currently stand, are in any way unbalanced- a military unit of them clearly represents a small number of individuals (Size Matters makes this the literal truth). If they represented a larger number of individuals- their strength should be much higher.


24 mammoths wouldn't cost more to feed than 800 horses...


Regards,
Northstar

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

I don't use the Size Matters part of the game. It just makes combat even more boring than it is already.

 

[Northstar1989]

I don't use the Size Matters part of the game. It just makes combat even more boring than it is already.

Size Matters makes the game more boring? You'll certainly have to explain why you think that...


Regards,
Northstar

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

It is combat, what could be more boring than that.

 

[Redwallzyl]

horse domestication should not lead to horse riding. horse riding started around 4200 bc but they were domesticated for food before that.

 

[Thunderbrd]

horse domestication should not lead to horse riding. horse riding started around 4200 bc but they were domesticated for food before that.

We've had TONS of rather heated arguments on this subject. In general, the mod team rejects the premise that it took so long to get to riding. Even the scholors when looking at it from a totally non-biased position of "if there isn't evidence for something then it couldn't have been" must admit that there could be very good reason such evidence is lacking as it wouldn't show up in archaeological studies if they had not been using any advanced tool use to ride (tack and harness at any level.) This leads the subject to being debatable even at a scholarly level and we've made our judicious decision as to where we stand on the subject. Can't blame anyone who stands on the other side of the fence with this but I doubt we'd be persuaded to adjust our approach to this subject now.

 

[Redwallzyl]

The horse, native to the Eurasian steep, was first domestacated by the indoeuropeans. The domestication of cattle and sheep (who were used for meat before developeming longer hair sutible for weaving because of colder climates) in aproximetly 4500 BC allowed the indoeuropean people to live in the hostile steep environment. They tamed the horse but only for meat initaly. Later they learned how to ride it which let them keep much larger herds and flocks. A early prevalence of the lactose tolerent mutation shifted their diet and drastically increased their numbers allowing them to expand in power spreading around europe, India, Iran and parts of China. They gradually linguistically split becoming the Greeks Indians Romans Celts Scandinavians and other cultures that intern became modern European Indian and partially Iranians.

 

[Redwallzyl]

I'm sorry for any spelling I'm tyiping this on a phone a one am
Also my source:
The Horse The Wheel and Language: How Bronze-Age Riders from the Eurasian Steppes Shaped the World. David W. Anthony. Princeton University Press. © 2007.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

The developers of Civ IV decided that quadruped mammals come in three types hunted (furs, elephants and bison: require camps), herded for food (cattle, sheep and pigs: require pasture) and horses for work and war (requires horse pasture). They ignore the fact that horses were eaten and that cattle were used to pull plows and carts. In many ways we are stuck with these early decisions.