Don Deity: Warlords 2.08, huge random continents map, epic speed

[bestbrian]

Question? I believe I read somewhere that if you make a deal with an AI (techs/resources/whatever) then the AI waits a number of turns to DoW. If anyone can confirm that that is the case, then I suggest making some kind of deal with Alex (probably a resource deal); then use the time that buys you to revolt. If that's not the case, draft like mad and hit him before you lose Bren.

You've vassalized Bren; what's his military situation? How good are those stacks we thought he may have been hiding during the Celt war?

And, Snaaty, how come you never have any easy questions?

 

[Pe Ell]

A bar somewhere strange... somewhere very strange...

There was a sharp crack, a flash and a cloud of smoke that filled the center of the room. A man dressed in what had once been fine ermine lined robes but now where charred black and sooty stepped out coughing from the smoke cloud.

"That's the last time I ever *Cough* let those priest experiment with their *cough, cough* blasted prayers!"

He looked around the strange settings, noting the only person besides him in the room standing at the disk. Well, there was a barkeep too but this Emperor had never payed any attention to mere workers...

"Excuse me? Hi, I'm emperor Pe Ell and could you be nice and tell me where I am? And perhaps more importantly how I get out of here... I can't leave those peasants running the country by themselves!"

Emperor Pe Ell had a strangely nervous feeling as the man looked up, like he suddenly was way out of his depth.

"A ruler? Would you like to hear my story?" Was all the answer he got.

"What? No! I really don't have ti-"

Of course the man, calling himself Don Diety told the story anyway and against himself Pe Ell was intrigued over the struggles of DD's nation.

"Now that is quite the mess you've gotten in." He managed at the end, or at least when it was up to date. "Hmm, I feel humbled by a dietys presence. So what would I do? The hard part should be to get Bren to be vassal long enough for him to be drawn into the war. I've never myself had a vassal that big so I really can't predict his reactions but I don't think gifting cities will help. Possible you could use them to bribe him to war Alex if he does break lose? I myself woul probably stay on the defensive at least until we have built a few redcoats. Then try to bait Alex and massacre his troops with cannons and redcoats when he tries to attack."

DD handed Pe Ell a paper.

"Oh, you have prepared a multiple options poll, how thoughtful. Let me see here:"

1: B We probably don't have the time sadly. I really would like some extra economy but we can't ris getting overrun by Alex.

2: B I would like some redcoats along the front first but that depends a little on our enemy. Is he going for infantry? Because that would be scary...

3: B Can't see how that would help. Although it would give some diplo modifiers so it's actually worth thinking about later.

Emperor Pe Ell handed the paper back.

"Thats about as far as I feel confident to give advice. Oh, one thing. Did you build the hindu shrine? My memory is poor due to constant workrelated stress so refresh it for me."

"Erm, this is kinda embarresing but could you send me back home?"

 

[The Menace]

A lowly noble hoping not to be turned into a statue says:
1b
2a
3b

 

[Squarg]

I think I'm in the minority when I think that you should revolt to free market. My reasoning is that if he is going to DOW on you he will do it when you revolt since your power will stay stagnant and it stops cripling your economy, and besides I always ask myself will it be any better in 5 turns without it. Also I think that a defensive war is always easier to fight than an offensive war so I say no DOW on Alex. When Alex attacks I say give Bren back the city that he attacks and move all other troops to the other in hopes that his forces will be weakened and you will be able to defend it.

so I say
1a
2b
3b/aish

 

[bestbrian]

Hey, Pe Ell, nice post, dude.

 

[Snaaty]

First things first:

Great post Pe Ell

...

Now some answers and facts:

@ Scarredroman:

Bren has already reached rifles at the end of the last turnset, because I played 3 turns more after the end of the war... ...I wanted to exchange rifles for steel with Bren, but then only to find out that the ***** doesn´t want to trade with DD anymore.

So Alex will go for DD´s cities for sure, because they are simply worse defended then Bren´s

...

@ SevenSpirits:

Military techs increase your power rating quite drastically, so I would prefere to get rifling first, then revolt to nationalism to reduce the risk of Alex jumping at DD during the revolution a little

...

@ Premier Valle:

Alex is racing towards Infantry... ...he already has Scientific Methods + Rifling and maybe even Steem Power. If he reaches Infantry before DD manages to take out his main army somehow it´s game over. His lands are simply too good and he techs to fast for DD to keep up...

Besides, I think that Alex will jump on DD anyways within the next 10 turns, so in my opinion it´s better to be the one to declare and move troops first (even if you only defend for the first turns).

Additionally, there is the risko of Bren breaking loose every single turn, so each turn waiting increases this problem greatly (once the war has started, I don´t think he will break loose, because he will be busy fighting for his life)

...

@ bestbrian:

The 10 turns no war for resource deals only count, if the AI is offering it by himself.

Bren has spare units in 3 cities, all upgraded to rifles already, and all his remaining 9 cities are defended with 3 rifles each. He has altogether about 25 spare rifles, 3 knights (he will upgrade to cav pretty soon, because DD gifted him mil.trad) and 6-8 trebs/catas, so your and scarredroman´s estimations about him having about 30 - 40 units left were pretty good

I don´t like easy questions

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@ Pe Ell:

Again, great post...

Yup, Alex is on the infantry clock.

Defense first might be the only way to survive this war, backed by massive drafting (this is a huge map, so DD might be able to draft 5 or 6 units every turn), which might just be enough to hold back Alex (loosing maybe one of the newly captured Celt cities which could be retaken later, with the help of Bren)

DD is still waiting for the Great Priest to build the Hindu Shrine (about 20 turns more)

...

@ The Menace:

Any adivce is good advice, thanks for you participation

...

@ Squarg:

I fully agree with you about defeding first, but I fear that DD might not be able to defend for 4 turns without the help of drafted rifles if Alex is jumping in at turn 1 of the revolution... ...the war might be over already after 4 turns of revolution and no production (Alex has an army of about 50+ rifles, 15+ cav, some grens and 15+ trebs, and most of it is already moved or moving towards the English border)

...

@ ALL:

A quick overview over DD´s army at 950 AD:

22 cavalry (about 15 of them are higly promoted)
9 LB´s
3 Axes
3 Warriors
9 Trebuchets (and the money to upgrade 6 of them right away to cannons)
2 cannons (within the 4 turns remaining up to the revolution for nationalism, 5-6 more will be produced + whipped)
9 grens

...

Selling some older tech oversea might bring enough money to upgrade the remaining 3 trebs also to cannons, so DD will have about 15 cannons ready soon. And selling Economics to Alex might even spill in the cash to upgrade the lbows to redcoats (Alex has about 700 gold, and it´s increasing by 50 gold each turn)... ...should be enough for defending during the two turn revolution, even if Alex is jumping in right away... ...then backed by drafting, the war might be brought to Greek lands within the next 5-6 turns.

Main problem is still the chance of Alex reaching Infantry anytime soon... ...this would mean instant death

...

EDIT:

I just had another idea:

How about selling Economics to Alex one turn before declaring, then bribing him to revolt to Free Market the turn DD declares, to leave him in revolt???

...

EDIT2:

Forget about that... ...DD isn´t running Free Market, so he can´t bribe Alex into it

 

[MrFelony]

isn't there a limit for the number of troops you can draft? though it may increase with map size..

 

[Nictel]

I have an idea, I just thought of it and I it's crazy so it might just work...

Can you get an oversea nation to declare war on Alex? My idea is that he'll put a large portion of his army on ships and send them to conquer distant lands. When the ships leave you declare war and take his lands while his army is away.

A tactic I used in a previous game when I saw my self standing against infantry; I took out the cannons first and struck with my own cannons. I fortified my rifles on a hill and watch as infantry after infantry died. I was able to take out 25 infantry against my own 4 cannons and 6 rifles.
Perhaps you can try defending on hills and in strong cities and hope that Alex runs his army to death...

 

[Snaaty]

@ MrFelony:

There is a limit, but it increases with map size, like you already have suspected. But I´m not sure how many units you can draft per turn on huge... ...would be great if anybody who knows could post this info... ...could be of SOME use

...

@ Nictel:

Sounds like a good idea, I will check on that tonight (but I have low hopes on that, because DD isn´t very famous abroad)

 

[Scarredroman]

You are right that you're the target and not Bren. The presence of trebs confirms that. Cavalry don't get automatic flank attacks against so primitive a weapon.

The cities Alex wants are all now Don's. Three of them were Bren's.
It does not matter too much how foreigners like or dislike Don Diety, just that they or Alex can be bribed to go war with each other. How do Alex and Cyrus feel about each other?

In the Celtic war, DD attacked and took a city and then held it against coutnter-attacks. Bren attacked Hastings. DD expects Alex to attack Hastings. Certainly you don't want Grenadiers to be exposed to attack.

In the event of war, Alex' troops would have to move back from DD and Bren's land to neutral or his own territory. I think Alex has a twelth city north of Ashland.

The tactics you used and planned to use against Bren could work equally well in this situation.

There are still 7 turns during which Bren can't DoW you. That spare stack of his ought to be moving towards those three cities you took.

 

[Squarg]

you can draft 6 units on huge i think.

 

[Snaaty]

@ Squarg:

Thanks for the info

...

@ Nictel & scarredroman:

Bribing anybody to war against Alex...

Cyrus, Kublai & Quin (the strongest and warmongerishest nations) are all annoyed with DD: "We just don´t like you enough"

All other nations are cautious but are simply afraid of Alex mil. power: "We would have nothing to gain"

...sadly doesn´t work...

 

[Thrar]

Selling Economics to Alex is counterproductive when you're racing against the clock til he gets infantry. Don't forget that Assembly Line requires Corporation, which is unlocked by Economics.
Allowing him to get to infantry several turns faster just for a little bit of cash is a very bad idea, imho.

 

[Squarg]

I agree ^^

But if you do decide to revolt to free market as well then I say sell it to him for cash then get him to revolt as well as you upgrade to redcoats.

 

[Patricman]

1a
2b
3b
Judging by what you said, Alex will probably not declare war on you in the next four turns. Just enough time to get Nationalism which will help your nation in the war.

 

[Snaaty]

@ ALL:

Wow... ...this is going to be a close call on what to do next... ...since I´m pretty eager to play on and to see what happens, I will leave the polls only open untill tomorrow night, so I can summarize the results on saturday and play the next turnset according to the results this weekend

...

@ Thrar & Squarg:

Your are right, I didn´t consider that Economics will bring Alex closer to infantry, so that deal is off the table, unless the common decision is DD revolting to Free Market also (then we could discuss pro/con bribing Alex into revolting the turn DD declares)

 

[bestbrian]

Selling Economics to Alex is counterproductive when you're racing against the clock til he gets infantry. Don't forget that Assembly Line requires Corporation, which is unlocked by Economics.
Allowing him to get to infantry several turns faster just for a little bit of cash is a very bad idea, imho.

Hit the nail on the head. I was thinking that Snaaty was asleep to suggest it (my own idea of "gifting" Dunrovia forgotten, of course ). Everyone else is scared of Alex and doesn't want to climb into the sandbox; fine! No reason to delay the inevitable. You're going to war, and I think you've got a good shot of winning this one. Could you post a save of the positions of the armies? Need to know where Bren's troops are and where your's are so that we can plan things that he's your buffer while you uprgrade and plan a counter. This can't be avoided; now we plan strat.

PS: It's truly scary how on the money Scarredroman always is.

 

[Bis-Mark]

My experience with Alex on Monarch level is that he is very obsessed to take back the Greek cities. And I found a way out of this - I rename the city. So my modes advise is to rename celtic cities and in the future war with Al to rename greek cities too.

 

[Snaaty]

Hi everybody, thanks for your participation again... ...the voting is through and I have summarized up the results. I also tried to work in the ones that came in textform, so errors might be possible

...

1b: 6 votes (1a: 3 votes), so DD wont switch civics to Free Maket

2a: 4 votes (2b: 3 votes) a close one, but still DD will declare right after revolting to Nationalism (if Alex doens´t declare on DD before...)

3b: 9 votes (3a none) It not only got more votes, it also turned out quite obvious that we wont give back any cities

...

Oh, I also played already a small turnest more, according to the resultes above, up to the point were the war has started... ...now I only have to find out, how the easy uploading system here workes, then I can upload the save to the database here and post a link... ...if anybody knows please let me know, thanks in advance

...

As soon as the save is up you all can have a look and we can start discussion the warstrat in detail (I think it might be best if you really have a look at the save, because this war might be crucial for the survival of DD). I will also change from playing the whole war alone to playing and posting it turnset by turnset, to get more input and advice... ...we migh need it

 

[Scarredroman]

You had 9 votes in total, but the total for 2 is only 7. Did 2 people not vote on number 2? Those damned chads again!

This is going to be one humdinger of a war. I do hope Bren did join in alongside DD against Alex.