fe3333au
Deity
I tend to agree ... let Nuts think we have accepted their explaination and that we are unaware of the ROP.
Doughnut Files Term 7 - 9
- Thread starter fe3333au
- Start date
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
CaseyJ jumped me on MSN.
Kinda interesting - I tried to twist the knife on him and see if I could make him sweat or dig up some info...
I didn't get much info - and I'm not sure if I put any guilt on him... it was all I could do to keep up the pretense of being nice to the evil backstabber.
Anyhow... here's the chat:
I wanted to close by saying...
How about this trade We get Military Tradition ourselves, then cram 2 stacks of Cavalry down your lying throats you double dealing, two-faced, piles of Mounted Warrior excrement!!
But I suppose it's not the time for that quite yet.
Hope I did ok!
Kinda interesting - I tried to twist the knife on him and see if I could make him sweat or dig up some info...
I didn't get much info - and I'm not sure if I put any guilt on him... it was all I could do to keep up the pretense of being nice to the evil backstabber.
Anyhow... here's the chat:
Intro
Casey j says:
hey josh can we talk MTDG?
Josh says:
sure - I may be a little distracted, (still at work) but let's do it
Josh says:
what's up?
Dnuts want to keep sucking our blood - on a timeline...
casey j says:
nothing i was just wondering when you guys would be getting magnetism and if you have ToG already.
Josh says:
Yeah - we've already got Magnetism. So I believe we're ready to trade as soon as you are
casey j says:
when are you getting ToG?
I play dumb...
Josh says:
very soon.
I think we may actually have it. My internet at home as been on the fritz
what turn are we on?
casey j says:
157
Josh says:
yeah. that may be the case then.
Subject back to the trade...
Josh says:
We're looking at a Magnetism for Military Tradition trade, correcT?
casey j says:
yeah
should be done in a couple turns
He goes fishing about TNT (maybe a good idea though?)
casey j says:
are you going to trade TNT up to get their free tech?
Josh says:
I'm amazed they lived this long! There are no plans to do that, that I'm aware of.
I try a guilt attack...
Josh says:
Besides, I believe our agreement with you prevents trading with other nations?
so that kills that possibility anyway.
Maybe this is a clue on the excust DNuts will use for treating our Treaty with them like toilet paper?
casey j says:
I didnt know if you had a prior agreement
casey j says:
from our previous convo
casey j says: quoting...
do you have an agreement in place to get TNT's free tech?I explain... and try to hammer the guilt some more...
casey j says:
as in tech for tech?
casey j says:
if not we will put pressure on them to get that freebie
Josh says:
originally we did - but I don't think they'll live to see that day.
casey j says:
ha they might, or might not. better to have a plan in place should they somehow survive
Josh says:
right - but nothing ever got signed when the war broke out. We had talked about it is all.
Josh says:
We take our signed agreements very very seriously
LOOOooooong Pause. Then no Reaction at all. Verdict: Guilty as Charged!
Now it's my turn to go fishing...
Josh says:
So - TNT have more defence than expected? I'm amazed they're still in this thing.
casey j says:
all those pikes are a tough nut to crack
Josh says:
yeah - no doubt
Josh says:
KISS giving you any trouble over taking the town?
casey j says:
no trouble they cant take it either
Fishing on KISS...
Josh says:
Do you mind if I ask about your plans for KISS once TNT is finally RIP ?
casey j says:
up in the air right now they are trying hard to get an agreement in place to protect themselves, just as you all are
Josh says:
of course
Ok - dead end. Final clarification of proposed trade...
Josh says:
what's your eta on Military Tradition again? do you know the exact turn?
casey j says:
Turn 160 you should have it
Josh says:
ok - that's pretty quick
Josh says:
I'll let my team know
casey j says:
we are researching very well
Josh says:
are you thinking of offering some gold to help even out the beaker imbalance? or even talked about it with your team?
Josh says:
Magnetism = 2040 beakers, Military Tradition = 1920 (if I recal correctly)
casey j says:
i mentioned it, i think we are wanting a straight up swap
casey j says:
no gold
Josh says:
ok
Josh says:
I'll tell my team
Closing...
Josh says:
anything else you wanted to talk about? or that it?
casey j says:
i think that was it, i was just wanting to know about our timeline
casey j says:
thanks again!
I wanted to close by saying...
How about this trade We get Military Tradition ourselves, then cram 2 stacks of Cavalry down your lying throats you double dealing, two-faced, piles of Mounted Warrior excrement!!
But I suppose it's not the time for that quite yet.
Hope I did ok!
fe3333au
Deity
Not bad ... I would have been a little more vague about ToG though.
In future ... actually I'm hoping that we will have at the very least an exclusion on Nut trading with KISS by then ... you may wish to point out that MIA's Foreign Minister should really be handling these negotiations (paint me as the bad guy) and that Fe has indicated that all future chats must go through him.
What am I saying?
From this point on, unless the FM has asked someone, ALL foreign chats will be conducted by the person elected.
If anyone is approached by a rival requesting MIA's point of view or answers to questions ... they are to act ONLY as a messenger, and give the FM's contact details.
----------------------------
TNT holding up with our iron is an unexpected boon
... I would have been a little more vague about ToG though.In future ... actually I'm hoping that we will have at the very least an exclusion on Nut trading with KISS by then ... you may wish to point out that MIA's Foreign Minister should really be handling these negotiations (paint me as the bad guy) and that Fe has indicated that all future chats must go through him.
What am I saying?
From this point on, unless the FM has asked someone, ALL foreign chats will be conducted by the person elected.
If anyone is approached by a rival requesting MIA's point of view or answers to questions ... they are to act ONLY as a messenger, and give the FM's contact details.
----------------------------
TNT holding up with our iron is an unexpected boon
fe3333au
Deity
I wasn't happy with the Nuts suggesting that an even swap would suffice for Military Tradition .... smug, arrogant puppies 
So I sent this ... just so the Nuts don't get suspicious and also to reinforce proper diplomatic channels.
Title ... Military Tradition Trade
So I sent this ... just so the Nuts don't get suspicious and also to reinforce proper diplomatic channels.
Title ... Military Tradition Trade
Dear Nuts
I send this note to address things raised by your last chat with Gen_W.
Correct Diplomatic Channels
As the Foreign Minister I would appreciate that ALL future D-Nut queries and messages are relayed either personally to me through AIM and PM or sent directly to MIA via g-mail.
The problem I am having is that numerous update questions I have sent have remained unanswered and chats happen without my input ... I'd prefer to be negotiating with Robi_D as he is your Foreign Minister, if not why have we not been informed ???
Example ...
I'm not happy about the upcoming trade and would like you to reconsider the even swap killercrane mentioned, since Magnetism = 2040 beakers, Military Tradition = 1920. I'd actually like to see the difference paid in gold.
Anyway I await your reply through Correct channels.
Regards
Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister
fe3333au
Deity
Well at least the official channels are being used ...
Me thinks that he doesn't understand the concept of role playing ... I sent him a personal message telling him to calm down which I will not post here as it was between him and I 
But as far as I am concerned the arrogance displayed by this turntaker is becoming tedious ... I'd very much prefer them to be our targets while they are still weaker and consolidating ... It should be easy if they show a similar attitude to KISS to get a 2 onto 1 scenario.
killercane said:
Me thinks that he doesn't understand the concept of role playing
... I sent him a personal message telling him to calm down which I will not post here as it was between him and I But as far as I am concerned the arrogance displayed by this turntaker is becoming tedious ... I'd very much prefer them to be our targets while they are still weaker and consolidating ... It should be easy if they show a similar attitude to KISS to get a 2 onto 1 scenario.
fe3333au
Deity
No hard feelings 
Small issue for them ... but that's when the rot set in as far as my perception of trust and friendship.
killercane said:
Small issue for them ... but that's when the rot set in as far as my perception of trust and friendship.
With respect to Metallurgy, our treaty with the Dnuts says (Section 2.5):
I guess Dnuts could have “begun work” with 1 scientist. And they knew that KISS would research it first so “getting it as soon as possible” could mean purchase from KISS.
It still doesn’t explain KISS’ getting Astronomy, as I think the treaty is ironclad there (Section 2.6):
I guess it is possible Dnuts paid cash for Metallurgy, then KISS turned around and used that money to steal Astronomy. It still doesn’t make a lot of sense to me – the stealing prices are not significantly cheaper than the research prices, and I can’t see why they needed Astronomy right away enough to risk losing the money and getting nothing. Maybe they expect the extra boat movement point and carrying capacity was necessary to get their troops home quickly?
I guess Dnuts could have “begun work” with 1 scientist. And they knew that KISS would research it first so “getting it as soon as possible” could mean purchase from KISS.
It still doesn’t explain KISS’ getting Astronomy, as I think the treaty is ironclad there (Section 2.6):
I guess it is possible Dnuts paid cash for Metallurgy, then KISS turned around and used that money to steal Astronomy. It still doesn’t make a lot of sense to me – the stealing prices are not significantly cheaper than the research prices, and I can’t see why they needed Astronomy right away enough to risk losing the money and getting nothing. Maybe they expect the extra boat movement point and carrying capacity was necessary to get their troops home quickly?
Let's not forget that MIA and DNUTs are still in a 'sweeping Non-aggression treaty". See the Treaty for details.
As to the vagueness of 'these technologies':
"MIA and DNUTs hereby agree that there will be a 10 turn period after the treaty has been dissolved before any of these technologies can be passed on to KISS."
If Killercane is really an attorney, then none of this treaty will constrain any of his actions. Realistically, the treaty may already be dissolved, if DNUTs has broken the non-trading clause. However, I'm much more worried about them breaking the Non-aggression clause. There really won't be any penalty against them, so they are only constrained by their conscience. They are trying to win the game, just as we are. I think it prudent to assume that we will be on the nasty side of a 2 vs. 1 assault.
As to the vagueness of 'these technologies':
"MIA and DNUTs hereby agree that there will be a 10 turn period after the treaty has been dissolved before any of these technologies can be passed on to KISS."
If Killercane is really an attorney, then none of this treaty will constrain any of his actions. Realistically, the treaty may already be dissolved, if DNUTs has broken the non-trading clause. However, I'm much more worried about them breaking the Non-aggression clause. There really won't be any penalty against them, so they are only constrained by their conscience. They are trying to win the game, just as we are. I think it prudent to assume that we will be on the nasty side of a 2 vs. 1 assault.
fe3333au
Deity
So do we trade to get Military Tradition ???
KISS need something to trade so it will not be gifted ... that way we get it sooner and can concentrate on other knowledge.
I'm torn between yes and no ... also Nuts are getting a better swap considering the take it or leave it message ... but we do get it sooner?
KISS need something to trade so it will not be gifted ... that way we get it sooner and can concentrate on other knowledge.
I'm torn between yes and no ... also Nuts are getting a better swap considering the take it or leave it message ... but we do get it sooner?
classical_hero
In whom I trust
We need to see if KISS will want to trade Physics for MT.
fe3333au
Deity
Finally the missing Nuteer Foreign Minister sends a pigeon.
Sent this off in reply and also to get info whether they are the team with the knowledge.
Question.
Is anyone of the opinion that we ask the Nut's outright WTH is going on with their KISS dealings?
I refer to ROP as it will effect Eureka Stockade
Also their double trade dealings ... maybe they have an explaination that we can analyse for falsehoods.
Robi D said:To fe3333au and the MIA Government,
I had been hoping to catch up with you for a chat but we seem to have missed each other so i'm sending this PM, throught the correct channels no less.
As for your quiery about the proposal for the Magnetism - Military Traditon swap, Doughnutia is fully aware of the beaker cost of each technology. However we stand by our offer for a direct swap of the two with no gold involved. This is our final offer as we feel Military Tradition has an extra importantace in the current climate which increases its value. Whether you wish to meet our price is up to you. You may feel upset and that we are being difficult, but just remember we paid extra for astronmy for its "uniquiness"
Robi D
Foreign Minister Doughutia
Sent this off in reply and also to get info whether they are the team with the knowledge.
Question.
Is anyone of the opinion that we ask the Nut's outright WTH is going on with their KISS dealings?
I refer to ROP as it will effect Eureka Stockade
Also their double trade dealings ... maybe they have an explaination that we can analyse for falsehoods.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
For what it's worth - I vote to just make the trade for Military Tradition and move on.
If we're honest with ourselves – there’s no real plausible explanation for what has happened – other than Dnuts are back-stabbing treaty breakers.
But what can we do?
We need Military Tradition, and we can’t fight a war on 2 fronts.
I love your response. Let’s just keep it strictly business with the Nuts.
I don’t see the value of a ROP or asking for more lies from the Nuts. I don’t want to antagonize them and make a KISS/Nuts vs. MIA war even more likely than it already is. We can see the monsters for what they are. We may have to deal with the devil, but let’s not poke a stick in their eye OR make ourselves more vulnerable than necessary.
If we're honest with ourselves – there’s no real plausible explanation for what has happened – other than Dnuts are back-stabbing treaty breakers.
But what can we do?
We need Military Tradition, and we can’t fight a war on 2 fronts.
I love your response. Let’s just keep it strictly business with the Nuts.
I don’t see the value of a ROP or asking for more lies from the Nuts. I don’t want to antagonize them and make a KISS/Nuts vs. MIA war even more likely than it already is. We can see the monsters for what they are. We may have to deal with the devil, but let’s not poke a stick in their eye OR make ourselves more vulnerable than necessary.
.
fe3333au
Deity
Those Bloody Nuts ![[pissed]](/images/smilies/pissed.gif "Pissed [pissed]")
What delay ??!!! ... Robi's message was sent on 26th, 6.19pm ... mine sent on 27th 3.02pm.
I bet that 2 teams will have it very soon
EDIT
Sorry I snapped and sent this ...
Robi D said:
What delay ??!!! ... Robi's message was sent on 26th, 6.19pm ... mine sent on 27th 3.02pm.
I bet that 2 teams will have it very soon
EDIT
Sorry I snapped and sent this ...
Robi of Nuts
Less than 24 hours and no mention in your letter to a deadline
Well I guess your team has made it's intentions crystal !!!
Thankyou for nothing
Fe of MIA
Well, if Dnuts actually wanted to trade, we could still do Theory of Gravity for Military Tradition, but it doesn't sound like they are interested. And obviously, we need an answer before we get the turn. I'm inclined to just research Military Tradition ourselves - it will delay Nationalism, but it is cheap now, and this is starting to be a zero sum game between us and Dnuts. It is not enough to make deals which help both teams any more - unless the deal helps MIA more than Dnuts, it is not worth making.
General_W
Councilor & Merlot Noble
Well – unless we somehow get word from KISS that they want to give us Military Tradition before we play the save… (not likely on several counts)… then we'll need to get M.T. ourselves.
Shall we call them out on it?... To what end?
Drat! They make me furious
Drat! They make me furious
I don't think there is anything to gain by calling them out on it. The deal is already over except for the peace portion. We know they might attack us anytime - they might not know that we might attack them anytime. Let's play dumb.
