fe3333au
Deity
PMed to Robi and g-mailed to Nuts
Title ... Where are we at ... let's chat
Title ... Where are we at ... let's chat
Doughnut Files Term 7 - 9
- Thread starter fe3333au
- Start date
fe3333au
Deity
Answer came ...
Robi D said:
classical_hero
In whom I trust
You need to send a friendly not to them saying that we will have a knight next to an empty city next turn, but tell them that they will not be alarmed because we are just going onto our ship and will do no harm to them.
fe3333au
Deity
Chat with Robi
Tryed once but connection problems ... so second try.
The big KISS navy is a concern
EDIT ... didn't see the Knight note ... but Nuts mentioned that it was OK before.
Tryed once but connection problems ... so second try.
fe3333au: hi
RobiD77: sorry, that was a pain ... loose wire in the wall socket
fe3333au: at least nothing big
RobiD77: yeah it was just working out what it was that took a while
fe3333au: have you had a chance to check out the save?
RobiD77: downloading as we speak
fe3333au: cool banannas
RobiD77: damn wire, it was making the sound of a message, then 15seconds later the writing would show up
fe3333au:
Metallury ... when ???
fe3333au: So you guys are how close to Metallurgy?
RobiD77: he is playing around with the stupid sliders again, i'm reading through his notes on the forums. I believe its 3 or 4 ... i know it helps with the rounding error but MM bugs the hell out of me personally
fe3333au: I thought you guys would be researching it flatout
RobiD77: yes but they make some adjustments for topping up the gold and whatever, i just leave the slider at 80 or 90% and be done with it, but apparantly if you reasearch 100% for 8 turns and 0% for 2 turns you come out ahead then if you had just done it a 80% for all ten
fe3333au: k
RobiD77: its like a 3% gain, to padantic for me by i guess thats why killer wins at diety and i don't
fe3333au: good point
RobiD77: but then im happy to play at monarch and not bother with all the crap
We should get it sent as soon as discovered
fe3333au: So we have Physics already ... can you send Metal to us as soon as you get it ??
RobiD77: absolutely
Military Tradition
fe3333au: Now wrt chat between Gen_W and Killer
RobiD77: yes
fe3333au: He mentioned that you guys are going for Mil Trad next?
RobiD77: yes
fe3333au: so will you keep us in the loop as to when it will be ready as we are eager for this knowledge
RobiD77: for sure, i don't see a problem with it when we get to it, i'm sorry if i'm a bit vague but nothing new has been posted wrt techs so i'm not able to tell you something more definative ... i posted for more info about 2 1/2 days ago so i could talk to you about it but i have not recieved a replay as of yet
fe3333au: we were a bit confused as it was mentioned that originally you were not interested in researching this tech
RobiD77: we wern't but they there was more discussions in the team so we still weren't, then some new idea came into play then we now are. I'd love to fill you in but its a state secret
<wonder what that is>
fe3333au: What would be good is for you guys to communicate your research plan ... so that we do not double up ... that is if you are interested in continueing our relationship ... the non-agression goes for a long time turn 179
RobiD77: again this was another issue i brought up in that we need to get our current plans and future plans written down so its not a guessing game when you come on the forum what is exactly happening ... I think things have changed so fast with the tnt situation and because there isn't as many players checking in as often that we are still trying to sum up the situation and the best way to proceed. Like i said there has been lots of discussions and ideas thrown around but nothing concrete has been put in place
KISS expansion
fe3333au: I see KISS are expanding and consolidating their foothold ... does this concern you?
RobiD77: we are expanding and consolidating a lot quicker so no not really
<Dig Dig Dig ... grrrrr>
RobiD77: as your city found out;-)
fe3333au: Ha ha
RobiD77: i don't know what you can see of our island but that wasn't targeted at surrounding you, like i said some people lack a diplomatic touch, but the expansion is uniform accross the island heading north ... kiss might get 6 or so cities up north but at the end of the day they are there because we let them stay
fe3333au: that's fair enough ... what could we do anyway ... nothing and hope that there is no nefarious undertones involved
Plans for KISS
RobiD77: especially once railroads come into play ... kiss are still militarily stronger than us but a lot of those force will be pre occupied with you guys
fe3333au: Do you see us continuing our current relationship, even if conflict happens? ... conflict vs. KISS
RobiD77: i don't see why not ... as long as we are both gaining from it then why stop
Neutrality?
fe3333au: I can understand a neutral approach ... but would you continue trading luxes with KISS
RobiD77: for the moment yes, if we started going cold on them then they would know it was 2 v 1 wouldn't they... the biggest advantage in any military conflict is surprise
fe3333au: true ... and we would not be adverse to the trading of luxes ... just as long as no technology was involved.
RobiD77: there has been no tech trades. They did approach us about metallugy but we said we were already researching it
KISS contact
fe3333au: I was just about to ask about communcation with KISS LOL ... we have had none
RobiD77: what a surprise ... no it has been minimal, not that i expect much ... they were the ones that didn't want to renew our deal
fe3333au: they have a habit of doing that ... very strange
Troop Unit information ... that we should have been getting from TNT grrrrr
fe3333au: are you in a position to give us troop information and movement about KISS?
RobiD77: they have a crap load of trebs bombing DB backed up by crap loads of other troops, then we have a whole bunch of troops waiting while they sofen up the target ... 14 trebs at last count to be exact ... in case your not familiar with the crap load unit of measurment ;-)
fe3333au: I understand LOL
RobiD77: don't know about anywhere else they are the only ones we can see
fe3333au: any armies?
RobiD77: no, not in view
fe3333au: that's good
TNT demise
RobiD77: poor tnt ... hehe
fe3333au: how long will they last ... next turn?
RobiD77: can't imagine being there turn player would be fun ... i'm going with 3 myself ... you can put me down for 158 in your pool;-)
fe3333au: LOL
Killing blow
fe3333au: so are you leaving KISS to take the final blow?
RobiD77: ummm we are still working out the details with them LOL ... can you imagine the visual ... were sitting there drink coffee and deciding the fate while the trebs in the background are pounding away mercilessly at DB
fe3333au: LOL ... nice
RobiD77: but i believe KISS will take the first crack although its not definate ... but the discussion is leaning that way so we have consecutive turns at attacking
fe3333au: Thats a pity ... more time for KISS to get units back home
RobiD77: might lose some more that way too ... like i said nothing is definate ... except for tnt's demise that is ... im happy to let killer quibble over the details with their generals
Plant an alternative plan
fe3333au: what would make things difficult for KISS is if you plant some cities between Dancing Banana and their little corner of your island
RobiD77: if its possible, their corner is the last spot we can't really see
Many Floaty Things
RobiD77: They have lots of boats anyway
fe3333au: and I'm sure they are using them to move some settlers
RobiD77: and i mean lots, you guys watch your oastal cities up north ... apparantly whomp was telling me that they are using a chain so you can trasport units in one turn using 4 or 5 boats
fe3333au: good tactic
RobiD77: it is but that also requires a lot of boats to do, which they have
fe3333au: Just for your information KISS have at least 4 settlers unaccounted for
RobiD77: i'm sure they are lurking around somewhere in the dark
fe3333au: you will see new cities on Battle Island soon
RobiD77: which island is that, ours or yours
fe3333au: yours is the only one that has seen non-barb blood spilt LOL
RobiD77: well it depends on whether you named it for past battles or future ones ... but no doubt they will have more cities soon in the north
Post TNT extinction
fe3333au: so after TNT is extinct ... you don't see any more cleansing ?
RobiD77: of KISS?
fe3333au: yes of KISS
RobiD77: when the time is right
fe3333au: maybe when they are distracted?
RobiD77: some thing like that
fe3333au: yes
RobiD77: like i said for the time being we are happy to continue our friendship with them ... by appearing netural and dis interested in the actions between yourselfs and KISS they wont know what hit them when it does
fe3333au: yes ... that's seems the best idea
Sounds good
RobiD77: we wont strike right away, we will wait 10 or so turns so they are fully committed to their actions against you ... then we will come through the back door
fe3333au: sounds good
RobiD77: thats the plan anyway, hopefully the lights will be on but nobody will be home
fe3333au: I'm sure they will have some ... at the more the better ... for us
RobiD77: but not for a all out attack
fe3333au: exactly ... and you endup with preplaced cities
RobiD77: if we even only take out 5 of there cities it will make a big difference ... thats on your island
War Weariness
fe3333au: Did you guys have any war weariness issues?
RobiD77: no ... but most of our cities are small
fe3333au: I guess a new enemy starts the war weariness starting from scratch
RobiD77: yes it does ... even one turn of peace re sets it from memory
fe3333au: pity ;-)
RobiD77: i know kiss had some but they have been at it for longer and its further away from their home
fe3333au: that's a good point
RobiD77: also depends on who attacks first
fe3333au: Attacker has benefit?
RobiD77: defender ... i remember a SP game where i was at war with 4 civs for a long time but had minimal WW because they all attacked me and all the fighting was in my borders
Regular contact
fe3333au: so lets chat regularly, that way we are both in the loop
fe3333au: you still going to be Foreign Minister?
RobiD77: i don't know yet, i am until 160. After that i will see with my schedule and other things. I don't like only being able to do a half arsed job, which at a few times this term has happened
fe3333au: AIM makes it easy for me ... if not you are there others who are on AIM?
RobiD77: i'm not sure, but just be a pest and bug them about it, its easy to get ;-)
Political Advice LOL
RobiD77: threaten to withhold a tech, it wouldn't be the first time
fe3333au: LOL ... not sure if my fellow team mates liked me doing that
RobiD77: your FM, use some of that power ... hell you've been FM since like turn 50 or so
fe3333au: I've been FM or a diplomat since beginning LOL
RobiD77: there you go, you've put in the hard yards, now do the pollie thing and start (ab)using some those powers of yours ... were you a diplomat to KISS at he start
fe3333au: The missing wine issue lost me political points LOL
RobiD77: just take a page out of howards book, you'll be fine
fe3333au: yes in fact I was just getting the Foreign Offices organised and discussing proticols when we had contact with both you and KISS
< John Howard id the PM of Australia>
fe3333au: Howard grrrrrrrrrrrrrr
RobiD77: i haven't met a person in 2 years who likes him yet he is still in office, got to admire that from a political science point of view
fe3333au: grudging yes ... but I think has lot to do with not having a real opposition ... Beasley must be replaced
Foreign History
RobiD77: just out of curiosity who did you met first us or kiss
fe3333au: I think both at the same time LOL ... or one or two turns apart ... you by ship ... KISS as an explorer
< Long chat about politics and energy options >
RobiD77: its the same for any form of power plant, no one wants it near them, but everyone want power
fe3333au: we could always have the unemployed, criminals and refugees on treadmills
RobiD77: anyway i better get some sleep, got a long day tomorrow with work and moving some stuff
RobiD77: hehe
fe3333au: cya mate ... keep in touch
RobiD77: no worries i will
RobiD77: take care and good night
RobiD77 signed off at 1:05:15 AM.
The big KISS navy is a concern
EDIT ... didn't see the Knight note ... but Nuts mentioned that it was OK before.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
@ the Howard issue. I have no problem with him. You can tell that to Robi. 
If you guys talk in the future, can you give my a line if I am online. Thanks.
If you guys talk in the future, can you give my a line if I am online. Thanks.
fe3333au
Deity
will do 
Anyone else disturbed by this? 
Our agreement on June 13 (turn 145) says (in Section 2.5) that Dnuts will get Metallurgy as soon as possible without deficit researching.
June 28 (turn 151):
July 12 (turn 155):
On turn 151 I thought Robi was probably over-optimistic. They only paid us for Banking on turn 151, so they probably weren’t researching much (if at all) before then, and I doubt they can do 4 turn research yet, but why would he think it was doable in 4 turns if it was really going to take 7-8 (from 151)? That’s a lot for his estimate to be off by – sounds like they may not be pushing the slider as high as they should be. Two non-consecutive turns Robi has looked at the save, and they are apparently not researching fully in either, and his estimated turns remaining has not really decreased in 4 turns…
Our agreement on June 13 (turn 145) says (in Section 2.5) that Dnuts will get Metallurgy as soon as possible without deficit researching.
June 28 (turn 151):
July 12 (turn 155):
On turn 151 I thought Robi was probably over-optimistic. They only paid us for Banking on turn 151, so they probably weren’t researching much (if at all) before then, and I doubt they can do 4 turn research yet, but why would he think it was doable in 4 turns if it was really going to take 7-8 (from 151)? That’s a lot for his estimate to be off by – sounds like they may not be pushing the slider as high as they should be. Two non-consecutive turns Robi has looked at the save, and they are apparently not researching fully in either, and his estimated turns remaining has not really decreased in 4 turns…
Anyone else disturbed by this
KISS has Metallurgy, and we don't. We're relying on a notoriously irresponsible partner to provide us with two key military technologies, on the eve of a war with an enemy that has a large standing army and currently outclasses us in bombardment... Deep breaths....
I think a short note might be in order, letting DNUTs know roughly what turn we expect to recieve Metallurgy, and also Military Tradition (have we agreed to that trade formally yet?)
Thoughts?
KISS has Metallurgy, and we don't. We're relying on a notoriously irresponsible partner to provide us with two key military technologies, on the eve of a war with an enemy that has a large standing army and currently outclasses us in bombardment... Deep breaths....
I think a short note might be in order, letting DNUTs know roughly what turn we expect to recieve Metallurgy, and also Military Tradition (have we agreed to that trade formally yet?)
Thoughts?
fe3333au
Deity
I too had my concerns regarding this ... and the whole Military Tradition thing has me disturbed as well ... first they are not interested and then suddenly they are researching it "for trade" and that they assumed we were not interested.
Sent to g-mail.
Title ... Completion Dates and Future Study
I guess we have our path marked out ... and the best we can hope for is that Nuts do not stab us in the back when we are occupied with KISS.
Sent to g-mail.
Title ... Completion Dates and Future Study
Dear Doughnuts
Under our agreement we are assuming that you are researching at the maximum level possible, could you please confirm when Metallurgy will be sent to us and also when Military Tradition will be ready.
Also we would like your thoughts on what your future research plans are so that we can coordinate our respective think tanks
As mentioned to Robi, I would like to alert you that KISS have 4 settlers unaccounted for and we suspect that these will soon be popping up on your continent.
Sincerely
Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Offices
I guess we have our path marked out ... and the best we can hope for is that Nuts do not stab us in the back when we are occupied with KISS.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
This was recieved from Killercane via PM.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
I had a quick chat with Killer.
[20:34] Ian: We could chat you know.
[20:35] casey j: oh hey it says you are offline
[20:35] Ian: For some reason it does that. Wierd.
[20:35] casey j: you got my pm?
[20:36] Ian: Yes. I just took over for one turn since ou Pres was away for a few days.
[20:36] Ian: I'll make sure theam knows about it.
Chatting about a Team PBEM we are both in iover at CDZ. We are on the same team.
Talking about KISS
[20:40] Ian: What do you think KISS will do after they have destroyed TNT?
[20:40] casey j: probably build up to attack you guys
[20:41] Ian: Do you think that since they have most of the military on your continent, that they might attack you first and seee how we play it this time and see if we will be pacifist again?
[20:42] casey j: I dont think so. They will be hard pressed to attack us with our military
[20:43] casey j: and we will have cavs in 4 turns so they wont want to mess with us
[20:43] Ian: But you guys are weak against us and we are average to them.
[20:43] casey j: the military advisor doesnt take everything into the equation, bombard units and whatnot
[20:44] casey j: you have probably about the same number of knights as we do MWs
[20:44] Ian: We are the only team with them.
[20:44] casey j: and we can build more fast. its very difficult to invade another continent
[20:45] Ian: Also with MW's the upgrade costs will be astronomical, whereas knights are a very managable 30 gold for each, making it an attractive venture, but we will se what happens once you guys upgrade and we upgrade.
[20:46] casey j: you could always attack us and find out
[20:47] casey j: we were planning for an invasion from you some time ago
[20:47] Ian: LOL. With the start of the update, I said that I declared war on every nation. Obviously it was a joke.
It appears he is now not at the Computer from this point o there is a problem between our connections.
[20:49] Ian: For a long time most of the people on my team were builders, with me being the lone warmongerer. But things have changed with the defeat of our former allies and the strenght of KISS, which is unbalancing, so we, along with Doughnut are planning to remove KISS.
[21:00] Ian: I must give you a warning. Next turn we will have a knight near a city of yours that will be empty. We are just transfering him to our waiting ship, so there will be no alarm.
[21:02] Ian: CYA.
I got the same PM from killercane. Something smells very wrong here. I checked our turn 155 save – 1 civ had Metallurgy (nobody had it on our turn 154). Based on the fact that Robi’s chat with fe3333au was after we played the turn 155 save, DNuts clearly did not have Metallurgy yet, so obviously it was KISS. I was thinking that maybe Dnuts finished it in 1 turn instead of the estimated 3-4 because the price dropped once KISS learned it, but Robi should have already seen that it would take fewer turns when he looked at the Dnut’s turn 155 save.
It seems very likely right now that Dnuts just got Metallurgy from KISS. That would explain why every time Robi looked they weren’t researching quickly, and it would also explain why they didn’t know how long it would take. We can wait until we get the turn 156 save before doing anything, but if KISS suddenly has Banking or Astronomy when we get the save, then that will clinch it in my mind. Theoretically, it is possible that KISS would have researched Metallurgy, then stolen Banking or Astronomy from us, so it won’t actually prove Dnuts broke our deal, but it really seems that by far the most plausible explanation is they are playing us again. It also explains why killercane the attorney didn’t care too much about the details of our contract – they weren’t planning on following it anyway.
So what do we do? First, we wait until we get the save to see if KISS has in fact received another tech. If they haven’t, then maybe there is another explanation (I’m not sure what, but it will at least create some doubt). If they have, then I think it is clear we can’t deal with Dnuts anymore. Any techs we provide will go straight to KISS. I propose we send a letter to KISS explaining the situation to them. Something like:
It seems very likely right now that Dnuts just got Metallurgy from KISS. That would explain why every time Robi looked they weren’t researching quickly, and it would also explain why they didn’t know how long it would take. We can wait until we get the turn 156 save before doing anything, but if KISS suddenly has Banking or Astronomy when we get the save, then that will clinch it in my mind. Theoretically, it is possible that KISS would have researched Metallurgy, then stolen Banking or Astronomy from us, so it won’t actually prove Dnuts broke our deal, but it really seems that by far the most plausible explanation is they are playing us again. It also explains why killercane the attorney didn’t care too much about the details of our contract – they weren’t planning on following it anyway.
So what do we do? First, we wait until we get the save to see if KISS has in fact received another tech. If they haven’t, then maybe there is another explanation (I’m not sure what, but it will at least create some doubt). If they have, then I think it is clear we can’t deal with Dnuts anymore. Any techs we provide will go straight to KISS. I propose we send a letter to KISS explaining the situation to them. Something like:
I like, but I think we should wait until we have Metallurgy in hand before approaching KISS. We don't want to be the odd man [with]out cannons!
The timing is very delicate. We definitely want Metallurgy from the Nuts, but on the other hand, if my hypotheses are correct, then it would be preferable to get KISS' signature on a document before they see we are in the Industrial Age (which will be KISS' turn 157). If they see that, then they may think that we have nothing to trade with Dnuts anyway, so they might as well make a few more deals first.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
How can you tell that a team has metallurgy from the save?
EDIT. Perhaps I was right in my first thoughts awhile back.
EDIT. Perhaps I was right in my first thoughts awhile back.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
The thing is, that I saw no change in the time taken the F6 screen, so I am still wondering exactly how you know this, because from the save 154 and 155, the amount of turns was exactly the same.
You may have to adjust the science slider. If the time taken is 4 turns either way, then it doesn't tell you anything. Set the science slider to get somewhere around 100 beakers - at exactly 100 bpt, Metallurgy should take 20 turns if nobody knows it but only 17 turns if 1 civ knows it.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
I just did not go down far enough. On turn 154 with 20% science Metallurgy was 13 turns with 134BPT. On turn 155 it was 11 turns with 137BPT, so someone knows Metallurgy. On turn 153 it was 15 turns @135bpt. Interesting this is. So that mean on turn 155, two teams must have known metallurgy. Those lying bastards.
I can’t double check the save right now, and I definitely could have done something wrong, but when I looked I thought nobody had it on 154, and 1 civ had it on 155 . Did you remember to add in beakers produced by specialists when you did your numbers?
. Did you remember to add in beakers produced by specialists when you did your numbers?
