Doughnut Files Term 7 - 9

[fe3333au]

The Foreign Department requests that the President handle the movement directions for the Doughnut warrior ... since you will have the upto date information and can easily plot their exit route.

This route should be one that gives them the least intel but primarily be the path of least disruption to our civil activities

 

[Chamnix]

Sent to Dnuts via gmail:

Greetings Friends!

Our Foreign Department has asked me to send you a quick note regarding Simpson Probe's movements. Although he cannot go north this turn since we have workers on that tile, permission is granted for him to pass through our land on his way to the hostile northern territories. We suggest he go northeast this turn, then he may go due north to pass through our territory, and he will arrive at a currently unclaimed section of the map.

Best regards,

Chamnix

 

[fe3333au]

Excellent Mr President ... Excellent

 

[General_W]

Looks good ... now we just need to get some real clarity with Nuts so we can effectively plan our Research Path.

 

[fe3333au]

Patience Grasshoppah ... we await their next thrilling installment ... due soon via pigeon

 

[General_W]

From the Dnut Term 6 thread...

Looks like they don't want to discuss peace though

So does this mean it's time to send my proposed letter?

Spoiler :

Dear Dnuts,

Again, we’d like to thank you for the warm relationship we’ve been able to cultivate over the years. All of us in Athens have grown to love your grapes – and we always value a good friend.

Let us cut to the chase.
The aggressive land-grab actions of KISS have us a bit worried. While we have no doubt that TNT was in great need of a humbling experience, if KISS comes to dominate the top half of the world, both our empires will be in great peril as the Gallic Idiots look to cement “domination” of this world at both of our expenses.

Both of our peoples share a common love of peace – and that is what we wish to speak with you about. How can our two nations leverage our love of peace in the face of two warlike and bloodthirsty countries in the North?
We have a proposal.

We would like to start planning for a trade of technology. We are interested in swapping our knowledge of Education (which we hope to have soon) for your knowledge of Invention (as soon as you can get it).

Now – both of these techs are worth 1320 beakers… but we recognize that we are the more advanced people - thanks mostly to your unfortunate encounter with the 2nd head of the 2 headed warmongering monster of the north. Thus – we will also give you our knowledge of Theology (1200 beakers to us. Worth less to you).
We feel that this is a very generous offer – and we’re happy to make it to good friends such as you.

Of course, we have one string to attach to it – but we are hopeful you will not find it burdensome. If we are to agree to such an imbalanced trade, we want to be sure it won’t aid KISS. We don’t want Education to aid KISS directly by trading or indirectly aid KISS by bolstering you for an attack on TNT.
It is our great hope that these 2 warmongers will fight each other and drag each other down. If you enter the war against TNT – it will practically gift-wrap TNT lands for KISS! This would obviously be a tragedy for both our peoples.
Also – if KISS acquires education without researching it… then the war with TNT won’t be doing as much damage to their economy as it could.

Thus – we’re willing to offer you both Theology and Education for Invention and your promise to not trade Education to KISS or start a war with TNT. (If they declare on you, then obviously you’re under no obligation to us to stay at peace)

We’re happy to write up all the formalities and discuss any details… but we wanted to just raise the idea with you, and see what you think.

Naturally – we’re also interested in extending our wines/ivory deal and defacto peace agreement. Let us know if you’d like this to be a part of any tech swap deal… or something separate all together.

All the best,
May peace always favor your lands,
Your friends… MIA

 

[fe3333au]

Sent this ...

Title ... Still Waiting

To Dnut Government

Just wondering the last message that we received from you was concerning your 'tourist' unit and concerns about being close to a city.

Strangely, there was no mention of the peace proposal that Doughnutia was going to send. Does this mean that you have no interest in investigating options which will bring our two nations closer?

As mentioned we are eager to see what type of relationship exactly you are proposing. If it continues our current trade and would it also integrate some form of technology trading?

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

Note ... please post directly to our g-mail as I am currently suffering an infected tooth and am on anti-biotics and pain killers.

 

[fe3333au]

Responce ... well excuse at least ... I did send ALL recent reminders to g-mail as nobody had full PM box

Foreign Minister fe3333au,

We have just recieved word that our Foreign Minister Nobody is experiencing computer problems (no internet at home) so apoliges for any recent delays in communication as we where unaware upto now. We are trying to catch up on the backlog of diplomatic activity as quickly as possible. On a side note your appearance in the DG was a smash with the readers.
We will be in touch soon

Robi D

I wonder if KISS will allow entry into their borders.

Also propose to open chat or correspondence with simple question ... are the Nuts completely happy with KISS activity on their continent ... their current dealings ... and their rapid expansion.

 

[fe3333au]

The expected responce

fe3333au,

I writing to you to discuss our offer of peace to MIA. We wish to sign a formal peace treaty which guarantees non-aggession between our fine nation. We initially propose a 40 turn limit on the treaty which then can be extended further if both nations agree to do so. This can start from the next turn (turn 130).

Robi D

 

[Chamnix]

Bah... we waited a month for that?! What's in it for us?

 

[General_W]

What a bunch of garbage!

This proposal actually has me kinda worried.
It sounds to me like the Dnuts are planning on attacking us on turn 166 when KISS would like to attack us. But if they had asked for "36 turns of peace starting on turn 130" it would have been to suspicious… so the geniuses changed it to 40 years.

(I suppose it's possible that this is just a coincidence)

Either way - there's no way this is peace treaty is a good idea unless we're also getting to thwart the Nut-Kiss trading paradigm.

Spoiler Rough Draft of Possible Response Letter :

Dear Dnuts,

Again, we’d like to thank you for your offer of peace, and for the warm relationship we’ve been able to cultivate over the years. All of us in Athens have grown to love your grapes – and we always value a good friend.

Let us cut to the chase.
The aggressive land-grab actions of KISS have us a bit worried. While we have no doubt that TNT was in great need of a humbling experience, if KISS comes to dominate the top half of the world, both our empires will be in great peril as the Gallic Idiots look to cement “domination” of this world at both of our expenses.

Both of our peoples share a common love of peace – and that is what we wish to speak with you about. How can our two nations leverage our love of peace in the face of two warlike and bloodthirsty countries in the North?

Your peace proposal to us stops far short of what is required to keep us both safe against an eventual domination win by the KISS.

We have a proposal. This proposal involves us making you some very good deals on technology, but it requires you to step back from your current relationship with KISS (which we have observed is fairly close)

We would like to start planning for a trade of technology. We are interested in swapping our knowledge of Theology and eventually Education for your knowledge of Invention (as soon as you can get it). If you're already very close to acquiring Theology, we'd be happy to consider some generous gold payments to sweeten the deal.

We hope that we can work together as the peaceful people of the South and that you are not determined to cast your lot in with the rampaging KISS.
As Winston Churchill observed, it's not a good strategy to feed a crocodile, hoping it will eat you last.

All the best,
May peace always favor your lands,
Your friends… MIA

 

[peter grimes]

I like the overall thrust and goal of this letter. I especially like the closing line

A couple of things cause me some worry (of course! you think I'd stand idly by?!)

...Gallic Idiots look to cement ?domination? of this world...

Personally, I prefer to Capitalize the danger: ...Gallic Idiots look to cement Domination of this world...

We have a proposal. This proposal involves us making you some very good deals on technology, but it requires you to step back from your current relationship with KISS (which we have observed is fairly close)

Do we want to make this contingent on peace with TNT as well?

We have a proposal. This proposal involves us making you some very good deals on Technology. It requires you to maintain your peaceful attitude with other teams, and, as insurance for both of us, requires you to step back from your current relationship with KISS (which we have observed to be very close).

I'm not sure of the best way to phrase that. But I think we need to get insurance against DNUT attacking TNT. We can't make a tech deal with someone who is attacking our KISS-hound!... At the same time, I wonder if maybe we can make it appear to DNUTs that we are willing to step back from a [non-existent] tech-deal with TNT:

As insurance for you, we will opt-out (honorably, of course) from our tech-trading arrangement with TNT if you accept our proposal.

This phrase gives DNUTs the impression (falsely) that we are casting off our tech partnership with TNT in favor of DNUT. My expectation is that they will be more likely to view their ties to KISS less favorably when they see that we are the stronger tech partner against a common aggressor.

Thoughts?

 

[fe3333au]

I'm concerned about the ramifications of even hinting at TNT relationship.

To outside eyes we are trading luxes ... and that is virtually it ... we have not swapped tech for some time now and the upcomming trade is easily seen as TNT researching themselves.

Damn save is in ... seems like it only came yesterday!!!

 

[Chamnix]

I think this is best handled with a chat, but only Robi D seems to be accessible, and he has been distancing himself from the decision-making. The problem is that we don't know what their arrangement with KISS is - maybe short-term tech swaps are not even an option. I would rather know what they will even consider before we send them a proposal laying out MIA's research path.

 

[fe3333au]

Adapted from Gen_W's start

To Robi_D, nobody and all Doughnutians

Again, we’d like to thank you for your offer of peace, and for the warm relationship we’ve been able to cultivate over the years. All of us here have grown to love your grapes – and we always value a good friend.

However, to be perfectly honest we were expecting something more substantial than an extended non-aggression agreement. At this stage we see no need to make this official as it is our stance that we will not act aggressively to anyone unless we feel threatened.

Both of our peoples share a common love of peace – and that is what we wish to speak with you about ... We wish to know if you have any concerns about the KISS expansion?

KISS' latest aggressive land-grab has us all a bit worried. While we have no doubt that TNT was in great need of a humbling experience, if KISS comes to dominate the top half of the world, both our empires will be in great peril as the Gallic Idiots look to cement “domination” of this world at both of our expenses.

We understand that you have an active trading relationship with KISS at this stage, but do you not have any concerns about the implications of KISS' rapid expansion and what their ultimate motives may be?

How can our two nations leverage our love of peace in the face of two warlike and bloodthirsty countries in the North?

Your proposal to us stops far short of what is required to keep us both safe against an eventual domination win by the KISS. We would like you to know that we are willing to enter into a mutually beneficial relationship which would assist us both to curtail the dangerous KISS expansion.

You would find us generous friends indeed

Our thoughts involve our two teams forming stronger ties and us making you some very good deals on technology, but it will require you to honestly and critically evaluate your current realationship with KISS.

We hope that we can work together and that you are not determined to cast your lot in with the rampaging KISS. As Winston Churchill observed, it's not a good strategy to feed a crocodile, hoping it will eat you last.


May peace always favor your lands,

Feaurius III
MIA Foreign Minister

Thoughts?

 

[Chamnix]

I like that a lot better

 

[peter grimes]

However, to be perfectly honest we were expecting something more substantial than an extended non-aggression agreement. At this stage we see no need to make this official as it is our stance that we will not act aggressively to anyone unless we feel threatened.

I'm afraid this may be read as a promise not to attack no matter how DNUTs behave. It could be strengthened to show them that we will not tolerate an attack against TNT:
However, to be perfectly honest we were expecting something more substantial than an extended non-aggression agreement. At this stage we see no benefit in restricting our ability to respond to international events unless we get something in return.

This rewording doesn't fit in well with the lines that come next, but we should make sure that DNUTs understand our intent: We will not sign a peace with you just so that your back side is safe if you attack TNT (at least, we won't do it for free)

 

[fe3333au]

I thought leaving it soft would be better, let them try to out guess us.

I'm thinking also that that is a bit too threatening ... my aim is to get them thinking about the ramifications of KISS without them feeling bullied by us.

 

[Chamnix]

I agree with fe3333au - if we want an escape hatch maybe just add a "generally":

However, to be perfectly honest we were expecting something more substantial than an extended non-aggression agreement. At this stage we see no need to make this official as it is our stance that we generally will not act aggressively to anyone unless we feel threatened.

Even without that, we could easily claim to feel threatened if Dnuts attack TNT - it is not an immediate threat to us, but it clearly would threaten our chances of winning the game.

 

[peter grimes]

My worry, again, is that if we leave the line so vague, they will think that we won't attack them if they attack TNT. Are we willing to go to war with DNUT to help TNT? If yes, then leave the line the way it is. If no, then we need to make certain that DNUT understand that MIA will feel mortally threatened if TNT is attacked.

This is precisely the situation that arose before Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait. He talked the the US ambassador, who indicated that the US did not see Kuwait as a US national interest. Saddam thought the US didn't care what he did, based on that conversation. But the ambassador had been ambiguous, and, in fact, the US did see the security of Kuwait in its national interest, and so the First Gulf War erupted.

If we leave the line as is, we are essentially hoping that DNUTs won't attack TNT. But DNUTs will be hearing from us "We will be at peace with you unless you attack us". I really don't think that's the message we should be sending.

EDIT: I guess my concern comes down to the last phrase: ... unless we feel threatened. Maybe throw in something like: ...unless the balance of power is threatened