Doughnut Files Term 7 - 9

I like the tech trade with KISS if and only if both MIA and DNUTs agree to it. That retains the escape that might be necessary if something unforseen comes up.

I wouldn't even mention an End Game Alliance to them. This certainly has the structure of one, but let's not scare them off yet!
 
I essentially agree with what you’re saying…

And it’s good to talk about these things…

But I hope you’re not suggesting putting all that in the letter?

It’s already quite long, and we don’t even have a deal with them yet. It’s WAY to early to start talking about terms of any payment plans, details of the payment clause, or if we’re going to jointly attack KISS in the future.

Let’s find out if they even like the idea of a peace and tech deal first!

That said, I really do like your change to the part about when techs can be traded to KISS. I’ll add that to version 5! (below)

But I think the rest of that can wait to be banged out on the bargaining table. Even though I believe it’s important to offer them some numbers for a starting place – we want to give them a lot of room to counter-offer and negotiate.

Finally – it is my great hope that this WILL be an end-game alliance designed to bring down KISS. But there’s no need to talk explicitly about that with the Nutters right now. At this stage, it is sufficient to say “we need to stand together to stop KISS from running away with a domination win” … the rest will come naturally.

Spoiler Version 5 :
Dear RobiD and all Doughnutians,

Thank you for you letter and following chat.
We would like to officially express our dismay that you have found it necessary to attack TNT. We are still worried this will ultimately aid KISS in their domination quest… but all of MIA's decisions haven’t exactly been popular with you either. So I suppose we’re even! ;)
From the save, it appears your opening attack was quite a success. Well done.
We urge you to make peace – if you can broker a deal with the Iron-heads.

Now let us talk of the future.
We are very interested in building a closer alliance with you – based on peace and trade.

Peace:
We are envisioning something along the lines of, say, a 40 turn guaranteed-peace deal that extends indefinitely past the 40th turn with a 10-turn cancellation notice clause. (ie - Cancellation notice can't be given before 40 turns in.) But we are open to whatever you would like to suggest!
Combined with this peace deal we would also like to make a tech-swapping arrangement…

Trade:
We already have Education – as you are probably aware - and just acquired Invention. We also expect to be done with researching gunpowder in the next 10 turns.
Based on our culture graphs, it appears that MIA is likely to be a quicker researcher. It may be in both teams' best interest to enter a tech buying/selling agreement instead of tech trading. Instead of you spending money researching 1 tech and trading it for 1 additional tech, we may be able to sell you techs for significantly less than 50% of their cost so you save money. You could just build marketplaces (which you will certainly want anyway) and thus not need to spend precious shields on a lot of libraries. We would be able to deficit research to ensure that together, we will pull far ahead of KISS.

Not only would you be free to focus on northward expansion, but you would also be free to maximize use of your Commercial trait, while MIA leans on our Scientific trait to research for both teams.

In order for this type of arrangement to work for MIA, we would have to agree to a "no tech trade with KISS" clause where neither MIA or Dnuts would buy, sell, or trade tech with KISS for the duration of the treaty and a predetermined number of turns after the treaty has expired. This will add security for both teams that after the treaty has ended, the other team doesn't give KISS all techs in return for a surprise attack. This would also protect you from having to worry about MIA selling the same tech to both you and KISS.

Also – obviously - we'll have agree on a "reasonable price" for techs. And by "reasonable price," we mean something very generous like: 500 gold for Gunpowder - worth 1,440 beakers – with flexible payment options.

Cooperation:
We’re eager to hear what you think of combining a tech deal with a peace treaty – and what terms both deals should have. Please let us know your thoughts on both of these items, and we will work on drawing up a formal treaty.
Think about what we're offering, and examine the costs. We are always willing to cooperate and compromise with a partner; if we don't both benefit, then neither of us does.

These are dark days in which the specter of KISS domination hangs over the whole world. We're sure you are even more aware of this, now that you share your continent with an expanding KISS settlement and KISS army.
The Doughnuts and the MIA must look to each other in brotherhood to stand against the gathering dark.

We look forward to hearing from you soon.

Your brothers across the sea,
MIA
 
May I suggest another tweak (I won't mind if you all think it's unneccessary :))

We're sure you are even more aware of this, now that you share your continent with an expanding KISS settlement and a growing KISS army.
 
The end game was be musing aloud and to be discussed at a later date once the deal has been signed and we have traded a number of techs.

It looks good and with Peter's added suggestion ... I think ready to send ... lets say in 12 hours :thumbsup:
 
Awesome. I've now added Peter's change.

@Fe - I don't see any need to wait a full 12 hours to send this. It must be getting close to your bed time over in Taz... I'd say just send it before bed. There's been plenty of time for comment already, and we really want to get this deal signed before the Nuts get education!

But that's totally your call :)

Spoiler FINAL Version :
Dear RobiD and all Doughnutians,

Thank you for you letter and following chat.
We would like to officially express our dismay that you have found it necessary to attack TNT. We are still worried this will ultimately aid KISS in their domination quest… but all of MIA's decisions haven’t exactly been popular with you either. So I suppose we’re even! ;)
From the save, it appears your opening attack was quite a success. Well done.
We urge you to make peace – if you can broker a deal with the Iron-heads.

Now let us talk of the future.
We are very interested in building a closer alliance with you – based on peace and trade.

Peace:
We are envisioning something along the lines of, say, a 40 turn guaranteed-peace deal that extends indefinitely past the 40th turn with a 10-turn cancellation notice clause. (ie - Cancellation notice can't be given before 40 turns in.) But we are open to whatever you would like to suggest!
Combined with this peace deal we would also like to make a tech-swapping arrangement…

Trade:
We already have Education – as you are probably aware - and just acquired Invention. We also expect to be done with researching gunpowder in the next 10 turns.
Based on our culture graphs, it appears that MIA is likely to be a quicker researcher. It may be in both teams' best interest to enter a tech buying/selling agreement instead of tech trading. Instead of you spending money researching 1 tech and trading it for 1 additional tech, we may be able to sell you techs for significantly less than 50% of their cost so you save money. You could just build marketplaces (which you will certainly want anyway) and thus not need to spend precious shields on a lot of libraries. We would be able to deficit research to ensure that together, we will pull far ahead of KISS.

Not only would you be free to focus on northward expansion, but you would also be free to maximize use of your Commercial trait, while MIA leans on our Scientific trait to research for both teams.

In order for this type of arrangement to work for MIA, we would have to agree to a "no tech trade with KISS" clause where neither MIA or Dnuts would buy, sell, or trade tech with KISS for the duration of the treaty and a predetermined number of turns after the treaty has expired. This will add security for both teams that after the treaty has ended, the other team doesn't give KISS all techs in return for a surprise attack. This would also protect you from having to worry about MIA selling the same tech to both you and KISS.

Also – obviously - we'll have agree on a "reasonable price" for techs. And by "reasonable price," we mean something very generous like: 500 gold for Gunpowder - worth 1,440 beakers – with flexible payment options.

Cooperation:
We’re eager to hear what you think of combining a tech deal with a peace treaty – and what terms both deals should have. Please let us know your thoughts on both of these items, and we will work on drawing up a formal treaty.
Think about what we're offering, and examine the costs. We are always willing to cooperate and compromise with a partner; if we don't both benefit, then neither of us does.

These are dark days in which the specter of KISS domination hangs over the whole world. We're sure you are even more aware of this, now that you share your continent with an expanding KISS settlement and growing KISS army.
The Doughnuts and the MIA must look to each other in brotherhood to stand against the gathering dark.

We look forward to hearing from you soon.

Your brothers across the sea,
MIA
 
I'm surprised that the Dnuts didn't complain about our boat that sailed up next to them?
Hopefully their silence doesn’t mean they did something rash. :twitch:

Should we send a note anyway, to explain that we're just passing though headed up north?

Hey Dnuts,

Sorry we didn't get this note to you sooner – but our boat is just passing though on his way north. You certainly have nothing to fear – the boat is not carrying an invasion force!
(Hopefully you didn't even worry about it – but we just wanted to make sure we made ourselves clear)

We look forward to hearing from you soon on our last proposal.
Again – sorry for the delay in sending this note.

Sincerely,
MIA
 
Speaking of DNUTs, i was looking at the Hall of Fame today. Kuningas is most certainly a formidable opponent when it comes to dealing with the AI. His exploits were so impressive that I was tempted to start a new thread in the UN!

But then I came to my senses.... :crazyeye:

I wouldn't send that letter, General_W, until we open the save - just in case ;)
 
I agree with Peter, we appear too eager ... and Robi, who is foreign minister (sort of) will get back to us when he returns from work trip.
 
Besides, if we send them a letter every time our boats move and we are not up to anything, the lack of a letter when we actually are up to something is a tip off.
 
Ok – that's all well and good. But you really want to be moving a boat into their territory when we don't have a treaty with no explanation at all?!?

This turn is fine, I suppose, but before we just sail unannounced into their waters next turn, I think it may be wise to send a note.
I know that, personally, if their boat showed up on our coast or in our waters, and they were "Strong" compared to us, and we had no treaty… I'd be freaking out.

Maybe that's just me…
 
Let them freak out. What are they going to do - move units away from TNT and into defensive position? OK by me. Preemptively declare war? They would have to be pretty stupid to guarantee war without even talking to us first for the sake of trying to kill at most 2 units.
 
You cold hearted evil Dictator!!!

I kinda like it...


Anyway - I'd still send the note, but it's not my decision! :)
 
Let them freak out. What are they going to do - move units away from TNT and into defensive position? OK by me. Preemptively declare war? They would have to be pretty stupid to guarantee war without even talking to us first for the sake of trying to kill at most 2 units.

I tend to agree with this, but I want to remind all of us to attempt to refrain from getting overconfident. Now that we're at the top of the game with no sign of faltering, we need to constantly remind ourselves that we are the off-the-record target of all other teams simply because we're currently number 1.
 
:bump:
Is anyone else getting twitchy over the delay in hearing back from the Dnuts?

I know I tend to be the mayor of paranoia town – but it bothers me a little bit that it’s been 4 days without a single peep from the Nutters.

Maybe we could even just send a quick note asking for an update on their deliberations? And maybe reinforce with them that we would really rather not wait up to 10 turns to find out if we have a deal.
 
I was just about to pen a reminder to Nutters.

Robi D said:
Fe3333au,
Its an interesting proposal. It not what we had anticipated so its generated a fair bit of discussion within the team. There is one thing we want to put forward to you guys and that is would you be interested in saving a bit of research time. We can get you guys gunpowder in about three turns, which would leave you guys free to research something else. Also we know you haven't had your GA yet, so would you guys be interested in us helping you get to ToG and newton's to trigger it.
Robi D

Well well well interesting ... I bet it did generate debate :lol:

One instant query that comes to mind ...
:confused: I thought that they were researching Education and that this was the final tech that they were obligated to end the current KISS deal.

According to our save they still do not have this ???

This implies that they would be getting it from KISS, I wonder if this is breaking an agreement?

Assuming we go for this ... our next research would then have to be Chemistry
 
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