Doughnut Files Term 7 - 9

[fe3333au]

Got this

Title ... War News

Ding Dong TNT is dead.

So who won the pool?

I'm tempted to address with Nuts their backstabbery ... I may bring it up in a chat.

 

[fe3333au]

An unexpected message

Hi Fe,

Im just dropping you a line to let you know that we did not trade techs with KISS in violation of our agreement, we merely received techs from them. There was some misunderstanding there, and we wanted to be on the same page. Have a good one!

Casey

Is some one feeling a tad guilty

Have yet to reply ... should I ask for details ???

 

[Chamnix]

Turn 167 - KISS has both Banking and Physics. Turn 166 they had neither. Researched 1 and stole the other? Stole both? As of 167, they are at 0% science - they could be going the theiving route, but why would they save enough money for 2 steals at once, instead of stealing something as soon as they accumulated the cash?

They didn't get Military Tradition that long ago - doing both 4-5 turn research and saving enough money for a steal in 4-5 turns doesn't seem possible. Plus they have 1500 gold on 167. I guess if Dnuts paid a LOT of cash for Military Tradition, that could explain where KISS' money came from, but it doesn't explain why they waited to steal 2 techs at once.

I also don't know how Dnuts could have accumulated enough cash to pay KISS while researching Theory of Gravity themselves in 4 turns.

Basically, it may be (just barely) possible, but I'm still not buying it, but I also don't see any advantage to accusing the Nuts directly.

 

[gbno1fan]

Can we see if we can find out the KISS-Dnuts relational military strength?

You can make it seem like we want to approximate KISS's strength - but we're really interested in pinpointing Dnuts.

Find out what it was before the attack, and what it is now.

 

[fe3333au]

I'm not sure how to achieve this feat

It requires some form of mutual trust and contact between both teams ... something severely lacking in recent Nut actions to us ... AND if Whomp is to be believed (and I do) to KISS.

Also, I'd not believe anything they tell us ... I predict that KISS will be accessing a supply of 'Battle Isle' brand Saltpeter soon.

anyone what to create a mock advertising graphic for MIA Gazette
Vox - "Battle Isle Saltpeter the brand that gives KISS more bang for their buckshot"

 

[fe3333au]

Well now that we are committed vs. KISS ... I guess it is time to try to ascertain where the Nuts position is.

Very very Draft, point form of ideas at this stage.

Dear Nuts

Now that we have committed to eradicating the KISS from the map.

We would respectfully like to hear from you regarding what stance you wuill be taking.<blah>

Will you be assisting KISS, sitting back or joining in. <blah>

There seems to be an active technology trading between you and KISS, will this continue?
Will you be supporting them with Luxes and other resources?

Now is a good time, while their forces are divided to take full ownership of your continent.

Yours
<blah>

Thoughts as to what to ask and how to word.

 

[General_W]

Moving the relevant conversation over here&#8230;

Chamnix said&#8230;

Regarding the Donuts, they have three options. They can declare on us, proxy-fight us by helping KISS, or help themselves to KISS' land. I agree with fe3333au that their first reaction will probably be to sit back, grab some popcorn, and enjoy the show while they figure out which is best. The longer they wait, the better for MIA. We don't really want them to take KISS' land right away.

I'd avoid talking to the Nuts much for now.

I totally see that point &#8211; but I guess I worry that Dnuts might do something kinda stupid if KISS is allowed to jabber in the ears unchecked for too long. They're fighting for their life here.

Maybe just send a low-key letter to the nuts just gently reminding them that a treaty with KISS isn't in their best interest and that attacking us would be foolish?

Going off what Fe wrote&#8230;
Something like this maybe:

Dear Nuts

Now that we have committed to eradicating the KISS from the map, we would like to just touch bases with you on our own existing treaties.

Despite our recent warmongering, we want to remind you that our treaty with KISS had gone 1 full turn over it's expiration date. We went above and beyond our duty to honor that treaty &#8211; and in the same fashion we will honor our peace treaty with you.

We don't suspect you of being eager to attack us while we have rail lines laid across our empire, are still in command of the Strongest military, and in our golden age &#8211; we just want to assure you that we ARE honorable in regards to our word&#8230; no matter what you may hear from the KISS.

You may be committed to trading with the KISS already, and while we're not pleased by this &#8211; we recognize your right to do it.
If you're interested, we would like the chance to "out-bid" KISS for any resources, technology, or luxuries you are providing them.

Please know that we're always willing to talk with you if you have questions or concerns.

Yours
<blah>

 

[greekguy]

nice message General_W. it's kind of weird to be critiquing messages to send to D'Nuts over here, since back at TNT, our Iroqi Comm thread wasn't that long (i think 10-15 pages, but that was over the course of 9 months or so).

also, i've noticed you guys refer to Team KISS as "the KISS" in diplo correspondence when describing an action being done to KISS. over at TNT we called KISS "the Galls" or "the Celts" when describing something they're doing, etc. an example would be, "we hope you will attack the Galls soon to help us out...". just a suggestion, but Galls or Celts seems to roll off the tongue better than "the KISS".

 

[General_W]

Glad you liked the letter GreekGuy!
Yeah - I'm not sure why we don't ever call KISS "the Galls"... interesting how different terminology evolves on different teams.

Anyway - in addition to the letter, I was just musing on what Whomp said in the UN some more&#8230;
(Maybe it was all just bluster to try to demoralize us&#8230; but it's certainly working to scare me!)

Particularly, I've been thinking about what to do if War Weariness DOES become a problem for us.
The biggest part of the problem is we don't really have a good option for a government to switch to if it becomes necessary.
We don't want to waste 4 turns of research getting Monarchy or Communism on our fast track to flight&#8230;
And we really don't want to end up as a Feudal government.

So I propose we look into stealing Monarchy from the Dnuts.
If we stole it while we're doing our slower burn on Industrialization, then Dnuts would have no way of knowing we didn't just drop back and get the tech ourselves.

It can't be TOO expensive to steal it (can it?) and even though it might seem like expensive insurance, if we wait too long, we may find ourselves at war with the Nuts and unable to steal the tech.

Anyway &#8211; something to think about and argue about.

 

[azzaman333]

I think that it would be best to research Commie. Communism is a very good government with a large tract of land, and by the time WW strikes (if at all) a Communist Government can be a very powerful way for us to continue on our mighty rampage.

 

[Chamnix]

With our development and 6 luxuries, I think that even 50% war weariness wouldn't require turning the luxury slider above 20%. General_W can check with CAII, but I'm guessing that Republic with 20% luxuries is better than Monarchy at 0% luxuries at this stage, and that's even ignoring the anarchy period.

Communism is certainly very strong, but since we would have to research it ourselves if we wanted it, there is no urgency to do anything now. We can get it in no more than 6 turns if we decide it is necessary.

 

[gbno1fan]

I think the biggest thing keeping me on the Republic side is the anarchy period.

We would lose so many shields that I don't think it would be worth it.

 

[greekguy]

I think the biggest thing keeping me on the Republic side is the anarchy period.

We would lose so many shields that I don't think it would be worth it.

that's why Whomp made that comment in the UN. KISS is playing as the Celts, who are religious, so they'll only have to deal with 2 turn anarchy. we, on the other hand, have to hope for a quick bout with revolution, as we could end up with 6, 7, or even 8 turns of no city production.

 

[fe3333au]

The other good thing ... and I'm glad now that the rest of the team dismissed my constant harping as the over eagerness from the Foreign Ministry to get intel ... Is that without an embassy, the Nuts cannot spy on our cities for KISS ... this also prohibits any technology stealing

I'd also consider the act of establishing one by the Nutters would be for me an act of WAR.
I wonder how our new citizens will react to this ?!!


Regarding the use of the term 'KISS' instead of Galls ... I think I may have been responsible for that as I don't consider that the other teams as Persians, Celts, Iriquious, etc. These are just the foundation that individual teams were based on.


I'm still unsure of the letter, AND I'd hate to give away too much information to the Nuts ... they probably already know but incase they have overlooked things, let them findout the hard way.

I do like the line about offering us chance to outbid but only to gain inteligence about what they are planning. Don't forget the we cannot trust the Nuts to keep their word ... they have proven to us and KISS that they cannot be trusted to play the game with honour. eg. handing over the city of Dancing Banana only as a shell after stripping it of every building.

Therefore I present this as an option in draft

Dear Nuts

Now that we have committed to eradicating the KISS from the map, we would like to just touch bases with you on our own existing treaties.

Despite what you may hear from the whisperings of others, we want to remind you that our treaty with KISS had gone 1 full turn over it's expiration date. We went above and beyond our duty to honor that treaty &#8211; and in the same fashion we will honor any treaty with you if you behave in a similar manner.

While you may be committed to trading with the KISS already, and while we're not pleased by this &#8211; we recognize your right to do it. If you're interested, we would like the chance to "out-bid" KISS for any resources, technology, or luxuries you are currently providing them or plan to in the future.

Please know that we're always willing to talk with you if you have questions or concerns.

Yours
<blah>

 

[gbno1fan]

@GreekGuy~ What I meant was we're currently running at about 600 beakers per turn. Even a "short" 4 turn anarchy would cost us 2400 beakers - and that doesn't take into account lost shields. For switching governments to be worth it, we would have to make up those 2400 beakers over time. And I'm willing to bet, as Chamnix said, that Republic at 20% lux is still better than Communism at 0% lux.

I'm too tired to do run any concrete numbers tonight, but I'd be willing to guess that we would have to go 40-50 turns in communism before it even began to be worth it. I think it will take us long enough to get to 50% WW (if we ever do) that there won't be 40-50 turns left in the game.

 

[peter grimes]

We went above and beyond our duty to honor that treaty ? and in the same fashion we will honor any treaty with you if you behave in a similar manner.

For me, the phrase 'above and beyond our duty' rings hollow. What exactly does it mean? Did we give KISS more than we agreed to give them?

Preferable wording might be: We upheld our end of the Treaty with KISS both in letter and in spirit; we will do the same with your treaty until we have evidence that proves you have broken either the letter or the spirit of our agreements.

....puts a little fear into them

 

[fe3333au]

Nicely reworded Peter, especially the 'spirit' reference

Dear Nuts

Now that we have committed to eradicating the KISS from the map, we would like to just touch bases with you on our own existing treaties.

Despite what you may hear from the whisperings of others, we want to remind you that our treaty with KISS had gone 1 full turn over it's expiration date. We upheld our end of the Treaty with KISS both in letter and in spirit; we will do the same with for as long as you are honorable as well.

While you may be committed to trading with the KISS already, and while we're not pleased by this &#8211; we recognize your right to do it. If you're interested, we would like the chance to "out-bid" KISS for any resources, technology, or luxuries you are currently providing them or plan to in the future.

Please know that we're always willing to talk with you if you have questions or concerns.

Yours
<blah>

 

[lost_civantares]

If they know that we know that the've broken the treaty then why would they care about any more promises they make?

It just seems to me that reminding them of honor will only cause problems in regards to the "as long as you do" sentence. They know that they've broken it (if what we suspect is true, or is that proven beyond a shadow of a doubt?), and if they think we know, then they could very well decide that we will claim that "the nutter's dishonored the treaty first, so MIA can therefore to", so we won't care about any limitations that the nutters will put in the treaty, which could make them not care about any rules we put against them in any treaty we make. We need to remind them of who we are, that we are the most powerfull and most largest, not the most honorable (which declaring war the first turn possible doesn't really lend it's self to believing anyway, even if it is true.)

From my perspective, they are out to win, nothing less, nothing more, and so eveything can be sacrificed towards that purpose, especially honor when honor isn't going to count for much all that much longer if the galls really arn't going to last that much longer.

 

[fe3333au]

The point is that honour is very important for our team which has been proven time and again in our gameplay (as you ex-TNTers know ... therefore I'll leave the reference in.

Leaving it in will not effect what the Nutters do either way, they will do what is best for their team and very soon MIA will control ALL the rare luxes on the Green Continent which gives us more trading options than KISS.

Personally, In a perfect game the last two standing would be KISS and us due to the gentlemanly way we have adhered to our word with all agreements, but that unfortunately ain't gonna happen

 

[Chamnix]

I agree with lost civantares about the "as long as you do" line being a bad idea.

I'm also not too sure about the outbid stuff. I don't think there is any way we are giving anything to the Nuts right now. I guess that line may make them try to get something from us and delay KISS' getting it for a turn or two while MIA "debates" outbidding them before deciding not to.

I still don't see that we really gain anything by sending that. Dnuts know we have a peace treaty - is the whole point just to remind them of that? Seems kind of insulting. I still think silence is golden until we hear from them.