Down on the Farm: Team Histographic #1

[Elear]

The Great Library output seems slightly like a letdown. Oh well.

We don't need Physics and I don't want to pay an arm, a leg, and a tooth for it. Getting to railroads is nice but we'll never need them to clear our own continent. They'll mostly be used during milking, I think. As you said, why hasten the Industrial era when we have such a clear advantage now?

I'm against cannons. Without railroads, they are too slow to use and keep up with cavalry. The only use I can think of is defensively against enemy units. If so, I don't mind a few cannons to help us out there.

 

[Spoonwood]

4-590 AD continued... Upgrade a captured trebuchet and a catapult to a cannon. Found 058-settler. Found 059 near iron-temple.
4/4 shooter defeats 3/3 pike in New Antioch wounding to 3/4 (112-40).
4/4 shooter defeats 4/4 spear in New Antioch, no damage (113-40). We raze New Antioch. Tax collectors become scientists. Physics still reads 50 turns. I disband the spear, and two longbows in 042, short-rushing the temple.

6-600 AD The alliance with Hammy expires. All those units still head south. I ring up Hammy. I demand his lump sum of 4 gold, which he gives us. I then demand his world map which he gives us also. Hmmm... the island where the wines lie, also has furs nearby. I think it might prove useful to start in on Babylon now, while buying a few caravels and landing non-army units over near those luxuries and try to take them from Persia. I'll have to abandon one city, but I think I can just barely clear out Hammy's units in a turn, or come very close to such. What do you think?

Here's my *mid-turn* save. This is not a hand-off.

 

[Elear]

Just took a look.

Seems good, except that two Babylonian Knights and a Crusader are on a mountain next to Antioch and that does not really help our RNG odds. Is it at all possible to wait for them to move off the mountain before wiping all their troops out?

edit: And it also says something about Persia that they still have 19 cities left, despite our large campaign.

 

[Spoonwood]

We can wait a turn, I suppose. The problem with that comes as that the silks deal will expire this turn, so we'll have to renew them on your interturn... I guess that's not too much of a problem. We might not have the wherewithal to wipe them out in a single turn and a town might lie vulnerable. But, in such a case, we can give a city away to Germany (who's currently a Republic). I don't think we can rip through Babylon quite in 20 turns, so I think military alliances with Russia and Germany makes sense. Persia can't do research... most of their cities don't have much commerce now. Babylon will soon not have the ability to trade techs like Persia. That leaves Germany and Russia with the ability to trade with each other.

 

[Spoonwood]

Actually, maybe we might manage to tear through Hammy that fast. I think a MA with Germany still worth it, since we won't tear through Babylon and Russia that fast, and that way they hopefully go to Monarchy.

 

[Elear]

Sounds good to me, I agree.

Babylon won't be hard at all. Tracking down all these island cities will be, however, even if that's a task for another age.

 

[Spoonwood]

5-600 AD continued... Of course... *least* aggressive AIs. I still don't feel quite comfortable with Hammy's units and how he spread them out. So, I ring up Hammy who's still at Gracious. Ask he units to leave or declare, and he complies. He's still Gracious. Ring up Otto and Cathy and say the same thing, and they both leave. Note... next turn Hammy should walk back onto our territory. First ask for his lump sum, if he has any. If we get it, great. If not, just keep demanding it until he's Furious and *then* ask to him leave, and he should declare.

I shuffle some cavalry around, fortifying some on mountains. I buy a caravel in 055. I upgrade another Persian trebbie.

042 will need to get given to Germany when we start the Babylonian war. Pay whatever we need to in order to renew the silks deal with Babylon, so we don't have an interturn riot. You might have to raise the luxury slider after this. Check Babylon's stacks before you hit next turn, so you have an idea on things. The stack near 049 seems the most troubling. If you can clear out the stacks near Persepolis (and it doesn't flip), I'd advise clearing out the 9 units near Persepolis mostly with vets and elites, and then using the armies to protect the dyes and 049. The Pentagon will complete interturn. I'd advise first using vets and elites before on at least the next turn before loading them into the armies. We have 6 vets near Larsa... not quite enough for a charge at Larsa yet. I'd expect probably 3 muskets in each city, and I'd plan on 2-3 vets per anticipated musket before going at a Babylonian city. Try to make sure we have enough force to raze the city before you attack, unless using armies. That way, we know will destroy units instead of losing cavalry and not destroying units in a city. Babylon probably has 6 or more muskets in the capital. Go for the silks and the saltpeter (near Sippar) as soon as we can.

Every city has barracks now and Antioch should remain ours fairly easily. I don't know if we want to disband rush armies now or not. If we fought pikes I would say no, but it doesn't seem so clear vs. muskets. Starve our Pasagarde and Persepolis every turn we can. Buy settlers or workers from those cities until we have them at size 1, and then let them grow and don't produce any settlers or workers from those cities again once they grow from size 1 to 2 to decrease flip risk. Sorry, if I've gotten pedantic here.

I believe we can land 6 cavalry on the Persian island and establish a beachead there fairly easily without a settler there, but I might be wrong on that. If Russia makes peace with Persia, I'll suggest making peace with them for at least 20 turns and letting those luxes go for the time being and focus more on clearing the continent as much as possible before anyone gets Nationalism. Remember... renew the silks interturn, and if you feel confident about dealing with Babylon, (falsely) demand a city until he gets Furious, and then ask him to leave our territory. Grr...

I accidently hit the next turn button while writing this... so, I renewed the deal with Hammy for 56 gpt. Germany signs a peace treaty with Persia. We probably have to disband some slaves near 050 and 047, since we have a pesky Babylonian musket near there, but I think that's O.K. If you really want me to go back to 600 AD and re-play things I can... but here's the 610 AD without any moves, and I say have at it here... If the knights near 049 make you feel nervous give it to Germany and ally them against Babylon (ally them against Babylon no matter what, I say). Your call on allying Russia against Babylon... will we need 20 turns to rip through them?

 

[Elear]

I think I understand. Somewhere in all of that I found answers.

 

[Spoonwood]

Sorry, I guess I ramble. Any specific questions? Any better ideas?

 

[Elear]

Currently loading up the save. I'll let you know if any issues come up. I think I want to attack Babylon ASAP within reason.

 

[Elear]

Actually, I do have a question. Did you want a cavalry in the Knight army or not?

 

[Bucephalus]

lurker's comment:

Pay whatever we need to in order to renew the silks deal with Babylon, so we don't have an interturn riot.

This will cost you your rep once you attack them; is that no longer an issue?

 

[Elear]

I'm not sure about the specifics but it's possible that it may have. I don't think it's an issue, at least from my perspective, however, considering we don't need to buy techs (anything left is pointy stick) and we have most of the luxuries as well.

 

[Elear]

610 AD (1): At first I try to I try to anger Babylon by demanding their World Map. No good, he gives it to me. Then I gift him 1 gold and demand it from him. No good, he gives it to me. Then I incite Babylon into fury by demanding 268 GPT (that he doesn't have) from him a million times. Ask him to leave. Babylon declares war.

Ally Germany against Babylon for 260 gold, but not Russia. I think Babylon will go very fast. The thing is, Russia has some nice stacks that I'd like to wear down but it's not worth it to me, we want blitzing speed at this point. It's all a race to the domination limit. There's no "try to win" the game, we have it won, so I want to just leave the AI in the dust now.

I rename the armies to names I can recognize them when multiple armies are on one tile and I'm adding units to them.

I hit the stack of 7 Babylonian knights four of five times with the cannons in 049. Use another cannon to bombard a vMusket near Persepolis.

Cavalry Army defeats vMusket. (112-40)
Cavalry Army defeats vKnight. (113-40)
Cavalry Army defeats vKnight. (114-40)
vCavalry defeats vCrusader. (115-40)
eCavalry defeats vLongbow. (116-40)
vCavalry defeats vKnight, promotes to elite. (117-40)
vCavalry loses to vKnight. (117-41)
eCavalry loses to vKnight. (117-42)
eCavalry defeats vKnight. (118-42)
vCavalry defeats vKnight, promotes to elite. (119-42)
vCavalry defeats rKnight. (120-42)
vCavalry defeats rKnight. (121-42)
vCavalry defeats vKnight. (122-42)
eCavalry defeats vKnight. (123-42)
vCavalry defeats rSpearman at Ebia. (124-42)
vCavalry defeats rSpearman at Ebia, promotes to Elite.

(125-42)
Maya capture the Babylonian city of Ebia, start worker.

vCavalry defeats rSpearman. (126-42)

I add vCavalry to both Cavalry Armies.

Gift 042 to Germany.
Rename some of our other cities to conform with the 0XX naming format.

IBT: I watch a lot of German/Babylonian fighting go on. I'm not sure who exactly is winning but it looks like they're both getting equally beat up.

Germans building Shakespeare's.

420 AD (2): 004: Cavalry -> Cavalry
015: Cavalry -> Cavalry.
022: Aqueduct -> Musketman.
027: Aqueduct -> Settler.
028: Aqueduct -> Settler.
029: Settler -> Settler.
035: Settler -> Settler.
043: Settler -> settler.

Remember kids, you can never have too many settlers.

Resistance in 061 (Persepolis) has ended.
Resistance in 065 (Ebia) has ended.

I find a Persian Knight in the middle of nowhere out to the far west. It seems like a bad idea not to address it. I buy a single Cavalry the nearby town of 056 for 220 gold. Pricey, but there is no support anywhere near and I'd rather not deal with some sole Knight wreaking havoc on our undefended towns.

vCavalry loses to rPikeman at Telloh. (126-43)
vCavalry loses to vPikeman at Telloh. (126-44)
eCavalry defeats rSpearman at Telloah, produces a leader. (127-44)
Cavalry Army defeats vMusketman at Samarra. (128-44)
vCavalry retreats from vMusketman at Larsa.
vCavalry defeats rMusketman at Larsa, promotes to elite. (129-44)
vCavalry defeats rMusketman at Larsa. (130-44)
vCavalry loses to vMusketman at Larsa. (130-45)
vCavalry defeats vMusketman at Larsa, promotes to elite. (131-45)
Maya raze the Babylonian city of Larsa.
Knight Army defeats vMusketman at Samarra. (132-45)
vCavalry defeats vKnight. (133-45)
vCavalry defeats vKnight. (134-45)

Rush Settler in 061.

IBT: More AI in-fighting. Persians found Merv in the middle of nowhere. Fun.

630 AD (3): 005: Cavalry -> Cavalry.
014: Cavalry -> Cavalry.
018: Cavalry -> Cavalry.
041: Settler -> Settler.
056: Cavalry -> Cavalry.
061: Settler -> Settler.

vCavalry loses to vKnight. (134-46)

I buy two cavalry for about 240 and 140 gold each. I didn't want to spend the gold like that, but we need more forces in some of these more remote areas to prevent dumb things from happening.

IBT: That rogue Persian knight somehow takes a worker that I thought was out of range. Babylon has Military Tradition and consequently Cavalry now. Doesn't matter. Stick to the armies, stick to the plan.

640 AD (4): 007: Cavalry -> Cavalry.
011: Cavalry -> Cavalry.
021: Cavalry -> Harbor.
036: Settler -> Settler.
046: Cavalry -> Aqueduct.

Cavalry Army defeats vMusketman at Samarra. (135-46)
Cavalry Army defeats vMusketman at Samarra. (136-46)
Maya raze the Babylonian city of Samarra.
vCavalry defeats vKnight. (137-46)
eCavalry defeats rCavalry. (138-46)
eCavalry defeats vCavalry. (139-46)
vCavalry defeats vCavalry. (140-46)
vCavalry defeats rPikeman. (141-46)
Maya raze the Persian city of Kandahar.

Found 067, start Settler.
Found 068, start Settler.

IBT: vCrusader loses to our vMusket. vLongbow defeats

our vMusket. (142-47)

650 AD (5): 026: Settler -> Settler.
036: Settler -> Settler.

Bombard a rMusket with a catapult.
Cavalry Army defeats vMusket at Telloh. (143-47)
eCavalry loses to vSpearman at Telloh. (143-48)
Cavalry Army defeats vSpearman at Telloh. (144-48)
Maya capture the Babylonian city of Telloh. Rename to 069.

vCavalry retreats to vMusket at Carchemish.
vCavalry retreats to vMusket at Carchemish.
vCavalry defeats vMusket at Carchemish. (145-48)
vCavalry defeats vMusket at Carchemish. (146-48)
Maya raze the Babylonian city of Carchemish.
vCavalry retreats to vMusket at Sippar.
vCavalry retreats to vMusket at Sippar.
vCavalry loses to vMusket at Sippar. (146-49)
vCavalry loses to vMusket at Sippar. (146-50)
eCavalry defeats vMusket at Sippar. (147-50)
eCavalry defeats eMusket at Sippar. (148-50)
Maya raze the Babylonian city of Sippar.
Cavalry Army defeats vMusketman at Ellipi.
Cavalry Army defeats vMusketman at Ellipi
Cavalry Army defeats rMusketman at Ellipi.
Maya raze the Babylonian city of Ellipi.
eCavalry defeats vMusketman. (152-50)
vCavalry defeats rSpearman at Nimrud. (153-50)
vCavalry defeats rSpearman at Nimrud. (154-50)
Maya raze the Persian city of Nimrud.
eCavalry defeats vLongbow. (155-50)

Found 070, start Settler.

I buy a Settler in 052 for 64 gold.

I buy the Army in 001 for 332 gold. A few cavalry are finishing in the core, so it can be plugged in with some troops immediately to head north for support. While we have a brief window due to the Russians getting in the way, we desperately need an Army up there to cover our troops in this southern front.

The cavalry in 054 and 059 need to remain there. You can't see one now, but there is also a Babylonian longbow in the fog in addition to the Persian one visible.

Once we get Babylon, we'll have access to the new luxury near Ellipi. Need to get a few Settlers ready to start claiming Babylonian territory in the western front. I didn't bother to capture Ellipi since I couldn't hold it. I was a little risky with the armies near the end of my turnset, but I believe theAI will not attack a 10 hp Cavalry army. I'm not sure where the cutoff is but I don't plan on finding out.

I definitely think I made the right choice by not signing Russia. It's annoying that we'll have to deal with a few of their (large) stacks later, but Babylon is going to be just decimated here by the time we each play again.

I've been starting to assault the Persian island with the six cavalry idea you had. They only have spears and a few pikemen. Conserve the few cavalry we do have up there and we should make steady progress.

In general, many of our troops and armies need a couple turns to re-group and heal, but in general you should be able to press on and cause more damage.

-Elear

 

[Spoonwood]

This will cost you your rep once you attack them; is that no longer an issu

We didn't declare war on them. Hammy declared war on us. So, do we get a reputation hit when *he* broke the deal? No. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=113376&page=1

vCavalry loses to rPikeman at Telloh. (126-43)
vCavalry loses to vPikeman at Telloh. (126-44)
eCavalry defeats rSpearman at Telloah, produces a leader. (127-44)

Very nice battle order here. Earlier in this game I made the mistake of using the elite first... even vs. weaker defenders it seems better to do it like this. Great job Elear!

Good to know that the inital rush against Babylon went well! Oh... and if you didn't do it, I think a cav. in the 3-knight army does make sense.

 

[Bucephalus]

lurker's comment:

We didn't declare war on them. Hammy declared war on us. So, do we get a reputation hit when *he* broke the deal? No. http://forums.civfanatics.com/showt...would goad Hammy into a declaration.[/delurk]

 

[Elear]

I don't think we ever declared war in this game, or ever will. The amount of roaming troops makes it easy to irritate the AI. The war happiness is also necessary in Republic.

 

[Elear]

Very nice battle order here. Earlier in this game I made the mistake of using the elite first... even vs. weaker defenders it seems better to do it like this. Great job Elear!

Good to know that the inital rush against Babylon went well! Oh... and if you didn't do it, I think a cav. in the 3-knight army does make sense.

Right, I figured this too. I had a lot of bad luck with Elites that should have won. By doing it the other way, usually early Cavalry will do a lot of damage and mostly retreat, allowing the second round (often elites) to have easy battles.

Here is another example where it worked successfully:

vCavalry retreats to vMusket at Sippar.
vCavalry retreats to vMusket at Sippar.
vCavalry loses to vMusket at Sippar. (146-49)
vCavalry loses to vMusket at Sippar. (146-50)
eCavalry defeats vMusket at Sippar. (147-50)
eCavalry defeats eMusket at Sippar. (148-50)

By the time I got to the elites, the remaining defenders had 1/2 HP.

 

[Spoonwood]

Actually, we might not want to add a vet cav. into the knight army, since we have one less attack movement for how many units we have. I don't know now. (unless the army really needs extra HP at some point). What do you think Elear?

 

[Elear]

Don't think it's needed. I didn't do it. Mostly I've been attacking sparsely with the Knight Army while using it as a cover for troops. Don't need to tie up another cavalry just to serve as protection.