obsolete
Deity
If the Parthenon cost the same hammers as TGL, would you have still rushed it?
Dr kossin #39
- Thread starter kossin
- Start date
Dirk1302
Deity
^I think so. It would have been hard to chop in Heliopolis and Parthenon is a great culture weapon in that city. I'll keep the current GE stand by but if i'm first to paper i may build UOS the hard way. Who knows, if we are by any chance able to trade for theo i may detour through divine right and rush the minaret, depends how lib race stands at that time.
@Kossin, capital needs to grow again after finishing NE so yes i'm intending to shuffle some tiles in that region. There are many tiles that have to be farmed there, so far workers have been busy connecting resources and mines near new cities.
@Kossin, capital needs to grow again after finishing NE so yes i'm intending to shuffle some tiles in that region. There are many tiles that have to be farmed there, so far workers have been busy connecting resources and mines near new cities.
obsolete
Deity
Well, the thing is TGL goes before Parthenon (USUALLY), and I always value TGL more important. Furthermore, not only is TGL 50 hammers more expensive, but the faster you get THAT one built the better, not just for safety of getting it, but it allows you to go straight to the NE to get that precious 100% synergy that much faster.
Dirk1302
Deity
Most of the time i'd agree but in this case i prefer Parthenon to GL as i plan to run scientists in several cities, not only the capital. I seem to remember Part going before GL generally. It's all academic here as it was reasonably clear we'd get both 600 BC.
Dirk1302
Deity
Hmm, i got carried away a bit and played until 1170 AD.
1 AD I use building wealth in multiple cities to get to CS asap.
Darius is sending a lot of troops to get the barb city Cherokee. I can be there faster by changing direction of my troops to the south and make emergency roads there.
By building this road i will have the first shot at Cherokee.
125 AD Tao founded in Sparta
150 AD CS in, switch Buro,Slavery. 5 turns of whipping/growing, then we're going to farm some specs.Darius goes warmode, he's going to attack Qin for sure.Would always be Qin with the attitude but i have a 10 turn pact with him atm.
Moment of truth, Darius will capture next turn. Still 3 of my 4 units here are cr2 or better so i should prevail against a Guerilla 2 and a guerilla 1 archer.
175 AD We capture Cherokee losing 1 unit, a fish and a deer in BFC , not that bad.
200 AD Don't get that much for CS, 60 gold is all from Peri who has almost finished
CS himself. Would later trade it for 160 gold+drama with Darius. Peri founds Islam.
250 AD Get a prophet in capital, had 70% odds against that. Rather useless unless....
275 AD Switch Paci caste, cherokee can pop borders now. Time to found the new cities in the west as they can can pop borders quickly now. I assign 7 scientists in capital. to get some GS out.
350 AD AP built vote Peri. I was already building Buddhist temples/monasteries in anticipation of this.
475 AD I'm going for a bit of a gambit now. I have a prophet, a scientist and a GE, ~80% for a second GS in 3 turns. No one has paper. So i trade paper away
bulb 1/2 of DR. 4 turns left to research. If Peri doesn't build Minaret in 4 turns i'll get it. Chances i lose UOS in the process are very slim, Peri doesn't have a GE afair.
540 AD The gambit comes off as DR is researched. I rush Minaret and UOS is 1 turn from completion as well. i have 2 scientists now, Heliopolis is trying for the third GS, some nasty chance on a GA there but in that case Thebes should be in time to help.Trade paper away for 320 gold to Qin.
660 AD get my third scientist in Heliopolis. Trade DR for machinery and gold with Darius. Switch back to OR and slavery.
780 AD oxford in, very early , makes sense of course with all that food/whip power, unfortunately it doesn't do that much with no sc assigned. That'll change however.
800 AD Optics in switch back to lib 1 turn, Darius researched edu but hasn't got philo as of yet. Peri is close to Edu so i take feud for it. Caravels are whipped to search for the other continent asap.
820 AD Lib in, take astro of course
860 AD Trade lib for nat after putting turns into Nat. Need constitution.I also get Peri's map and see that he has found Sal. My caravels alter course accordingly.
900 AD Begin building theaters in preparation of globe building.
920 AD Meet Sury, he has banking and i trade DR for it. Open borders with him for a big boost in TR income. Make an enormous resource deal with SB including Horse!
940 AD Navigation bonus in. Trade asto away for eco + 305. Had monopoly on astro but eco will help enormously. Switch FM. Set full research to constitution.I have met all the other ais now and research is booming as a result, i'll get constitution in 4 turns now and research'll be even better after.
1000 AD , i have 670 bpt already without rep, apparently don't need cottages early game.
1010 AD Finish constitution and trade constitution away to Peri for GP and 430.
1020 AD , Qin is friendly now due to buro alignment. I trade astro and edu for mil trad immed.This boosts tr relation with 2 so he'll stay friendly for some time. Switch rep and assign some scientists in Thebes. 800 bpt now and corp in 2. I can whip the Globe now so i'm ready for all kind of action now.
1040 AD Give corp to Peri for 220, i need that +4 TR bonus with him to trade with him satisfactorily in the future. Trade Lib and eco for PP + 50 to Qin At this moment Peri has chem on everyone, Qin and i are even, the rest is in the dust. Darius is not religiously aligned so no good trade opportunities for him.
1060 AD Peri goes FR, now i can't trade with him again, frustrating....I research to demo, not a good trade chip with these ais and i don't need the civics as of now. But Statue on this map with rep civic, oh boy.
1090 AD , Golden age started in order to get Statue earlier. I research HBR to get stables up in order to build/whip cuirassiers.
1140 AD Rifling in, set research to 0 in order to upgrade the cuirassiers.
1170 AD , ~20 cavs now, enough to start the attack on Persia. Darius is miles away from magic rifles though, i think i'll wait till i have some 40 cavs in ~5 turns in order to wipe him clean off the map in a few turns instead of having a more drawn out war with WW. Have to follow his research though, he's missing GP,RP and rifles atm, he will sure not get those from QIn. Once he gets one of these techs i need to strike though.
Qin has RP so i trade RP + 220 for Chem with Peri.
We're in a very good position, of course the map is great. It strikes me that Ramesses is a very strong leader (haven't played him often). Although i had no stone/marble i was still able to build wonders fast. As a result i could mimic the philo trait with Parthenon and S.Paya somewhat. Spiritual meant that i could take full advantage of the Parthenon/S.Paya. I switched between Paci/Caste and OR/Slavery many times.
From here on i think we'll just run over Darius, many options after but it hink we're strong enough by then to attack Qin. Alternatively we could go space or strike against the backward continent, this is the sure fire method but a bit tedious.
Overview:
@Kossin, would you like to handle the upcoming war? I could play another round as i have some spare time lately. I'm fine with you playing as well.
1 AD I use building wealth in multiple cities to get to CS asap.
Darius is sending a lot of troops to get the barb city Cherokee. I can be there faster by changing direction of my troops to the south and make emergency roads there.
By building this road i will have the first shot at Cherokee.
125 AD Tao founded in Sparta
150 AD CS in, switch Buro,Slavery. 5 turns of whipping/growing, then we're going to farm some specs.Darius goes warmode, he's going to attack Qin for sure.Would always be Qin with the attitude but i have a 10 turn pact with him atm.
Moment of truth, Darius will capture next turn. Still 3 of my 4 units here are cr2 or better so i should prevail against a Guerilla 2 and a guerilla 1 archer.
175 AD We capture Cherokee losing 1 unit, a fish and a deer in BFC , not that bad.
200 AD Don't get that much for CS, 60 gold is all from Peri who has almost finished
CS himself. Would later trade it for 160 gold+drama with Darius. Peri founds Islam.
250 AD Get a prophet in capital, had 70% odds against that. Rather useless unless....
275 AD Switch Paci caste, cherokee can pop borders now. Time to found the new cities in the west as they can can pop borders quickly now. I assign 7 scientists in capital. to get some GS out.
350 AD AP built vote Peri. I was already building Buddhist temples/monasteries in anticipation of this.
475 AD I'm going for a bit of a gambit now. I have a prophet, a scientist and a GE, ~80% for a second GS in 3 turns. No one has paper. So i trade paper away
bulb 1/2 of DR. 4 turns left to research. If Peri doesn't build Minaret in 4 turns i'll get it. Chances i lose UOS in the process are very slim, Peri doesn't have a GE afair.
540 AD The gambit comes off as DR is researched. I rush Minaret and UOS is 1 turn from completion as well. i have 2 scientists now, Heliopolis is trying for the third GS, some nasty chance on a GA there but in that case Thebes should be in time to help.Trade paper away for 320 gold to Qin.
660 AD get my third scientist in Heliopolis. Trade DR for machinery and gold with Darius. Switch back to OR and slavery.
780 AD oxford in, very early , makes sense of course with all that food/whip power, unfortunately it doesn't do that much with no sc assigned. That'll change however.
800 AD Optics in switch back to lib 1 turn, Darius researched edu but hasn't got philo as of yet. Peri is close to Edu so i take feud for it. Caravels are whipped to search for the other continent asap.
820 AD Lib in, take astro of course
860 AD Trade lib for nat after putting turns into Nat. Need constitution.I also get Peri's map and see that he has found Sal. My caravels alter course accordingly.
900 AD Begin building theaters in preparation of globe building.
920 AD Meet Sury, he has banking and i trade DR for it. Open borders with him for a big boost in TR income. Make an enormous resource deal with SB including Horse!
940 AD Navigation bonus in. Trade asto away for eco + 305. Had monopoly on astro but eco will help enormously. Switch FM. Set full research to constitution.I have met all the other ais now and research is booming as a result, i'll get constitution in 4 turns now and research'll be even better after.
1000 AD , i have 670 bpt already without rep, apparently don't need cottages early game.
1010 AD Finish constitution and trade constitution away to Peri for GP and 430.
1020 AD , Qin is friendly now due to buro alignment. I trade astro and edu for mil trad immed.This boosts tr relation with 2 so he'll stay friendly for some time. Switch rep and assign some scientists in Thebes. 800 bpt now and corp in 2. I can whip the Globe now so i'm ready for all kind of action now.
1040 AD Give corp to Peri for 220, i need that +4 TR bonus with him to trade with him satisfactorily in the future. Trade Lib and eco for PP + 50 to Qin At this moment Peri has chem on everyone, Qin and i are even, the rest is in the dust. Darius is not religiously aligned so no good trade opportunities for him.
1060 AD Peri goes FR, now i can't trade with him again, frustrating....I research to demo, not a good trade chip with these ais and i don't need the civics as of now. But Statue on this map with rep civic, oh boy.
1090 AD , Golden age started in order to get Statue earlier. I research HBR to get stables up in order to build/whip cuirassiers.
1140 AD Rifling in, set research to 0 in order to upgrade the cuirassiers.
1170 AD , ~20 cavs now, enough to start the attack on Persia. Darius is miles away from magic rifles though, i think i'll wait till i have some 40 cavs in ~5 turns in order to wipe him clean off the map in a few turns instead of having a more drawn out war with WW. Have to follow his research though, he's missing GP,RP and rifles atm, he will sure not get those from QIn. Once he gets one of these techs i need to strike though.
Qin has RP so i trade RP + 220 for Chem with Peri.
We're in a very good position, of course the map is great. It strikes me that Ramesses is a very strong leader (haven't played him often). Although i had no stone/marble i was still able to build wonders fast. As a result i could mimic the philo trait with Parthenon and S.Paya somewhat. Spiritual meant that i could take full advantage of the Parthenon/S.Paya. I switched between Paci/Caste and OR/Slavery many times.
From here on i think we'll just run over Darius, many options after but it hink we're strong enough by then to attack Qin. Alternatively we could go space or strike against the backward continent, this is the sure fire method but a bit tedious.
Overview:
@Kossin, would you like to handle the upcoming war? I could play another round as i have some spare time lately. I'm fine with you playing as well.
Impressive play and a fun report to read Dirk. I particularly liked the SM & UoS gambit. Always nice when attempts like that succeed. I reckon the remainder of the game will just be going through the motions. To me the easiest (but like you said, tedious) way seems to be conquering Darius, then following up by going overseas and taking out the backwards AIs there.
I see Qin and Shawarma both have red fists. Do you think Qin is gunning for Darius? Maybe you could backstab somewhere down the line. If Qin for instance were to go overseas that might make a war with him slightly easier.
I see Qin and Shawarma both have red fists. Do you think Qin is gunning for Darius? Maybe you could backstab somewhere down the line. If Qin for instance were to go overseas that might make a war with him slightly easier.
Very well played!
Unfortunately I'm still without a computer (looking in the next week to buy something) so I can't play yet.
Go ahead with the war, I've done plenty of war reports, it'd be interesting to have another angle here.
Intercontinental invasion sounds good ... Either Domination or vassals+UN?
Unfortunately I'm still without a computer (looking in the next week to buy something) so I can't play yet.
Go ahead with the war, I've done plenty of war reports, it'd be interesting to have another angle here.
Intercontinental invasion sounds good ... Either Domination or vassals+UN?
obsolete
Deity
I had been saying that for years...
Heres where I stopped 250ad.
I went oracle-CoL - there was no religion on my continent at the time and I'd likely get a prophet. Hit the pyramids next - I knew the west was open from all the barbs, but with the land blocked off I know the game is locked with rep. Picked up the music GA, stole MC from Pericles.. My game China picked up Aesthetics early and took the parthenon and Paya... Finally traded for currency a few turns ago, Darius is going to build the AP - but I'll bribe him back into confuscianism first.
So its 250 AD, and I'm about to get a GS to bulb philo at which point I'll GA and switch to caste/pacifism to bulb lib and education. I can 500 AD lib-nat, but at this point I'd rather run scientists than hammers in the capital so I don't feel like going after the Taj. Which left me with lib-astro as above. Was thinking about going infantry/arty though. Don't know why perhaps not having horse at the time, plus I wasn't sure calvary would sweep the continent. I may play it out just to do something different.
I went oracle-CoL - there was no religion on my continent at the time and I'd likely get a prophet. Hit the pyramids next - I knew the west was open from all the barbs, but with the land blocked off I know the game is locked with rep. Picked up the music GA, stole MC from Pericles.. My game China picked up Aesthetics early and took the parthenon and Paya... Finally traded for currency a few turns ago, Darius is going to build the AP - but I'll bribe him back into confuscianism first.
So its 250 AD, and I'm about to get a GS to bulb philo at which point I'll GA and switch to caste/pacifism to bulb lib and education. I can 500 AD lib-nat, but at this point I'd rather run scientists than hammers in the capital so I don't feel like going after the Taj. Which left me with lib-astro as above. Was thinking about going infantry/arty though. Don't know why perhaps not having horse at the time, plus I wasn't sure calvary would sweep the continent. I may play it out just to do something different.
Spoiler :
I was just wondering. The barb city is settled on the deer but you do not have hunting, so does that mean you are missing out on the health bonus (maybe food bonus)?
Nice play btw especially with the UoS and minaret. Religious economy is incredible strong.
Nice play btw especially with the UoS and minaret. Religious economy is incredible strong.
He won't get the health bonus, but i'm not sure about the food bonus.
Dirk1302
Deity
You're absolutely right. I even had a feeling while playing that i missed one bonus but it never crossed my mind that it was because i didn't have hunting, good call
, i know what to research next now.Propably a 1 turn detour so no loss there 
What is your stand on big trades Dirk anyway (the one with Sitting bull)? If the AI looses a resource he will cancel the whole deal and sometimes it is hard to get the resources back. I usually make trades per resource.
What is your stand on big trades Dirk anyway (the one with Sitting bull)? If the AI looses a resource he will cancel the whole deal and sometimes it is hard to get the resources back. I usually make trades per resource.
Dirk1302
Deity
Agree with that one also, one on one trades is better but i'm often lazy in that respect. It doesn't cost me often as it's almost always possible to renegotiate the rest of the resources.
Propably a 1 turn detour so no loss there
you can probably beg it too =p
Dirk1302
Deity
Yes, i dimly seem to remember something like that
.@Eplekjekk,Kossin thx. Will play the next round sometime this week.
Artichoker
Emperor
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2007
- Messages
- 1,711
Industrious gives a +50% bonus to wonders. On the surface, it's half the bonus of a resource (+100%), but in practice, the effect is greater.
For example, a wonder priced at 300
will cost 150 with the resource and 200 with industrious, but without the resource (assuming no other production bonuses). Therefore, the amount of hammers saved is 100 with industrious, which is 2/3 of the 150 saved with the resource.
For example, a wonder priced at 300
will cost 150 with the resource and 200 with industrious, but without the resource (assuming no other production bonuses). Therefore, the amount of hammers saved is 100 with industrious, which is 2/3 of the 150 saved with the resource.Similar threads
