Dragon Age 2 - Demo impressions

[LightSpectra]

That could've been better.

 

[DirtyFinger]

Now that I played the whole game through, I can really appreciate how bad DA2 is in terms of fun.

A good measure of how interesting and extensive a game experience is, isn't the amount of time needed to play through - after all it's easy to waste time by running long tedious fetch-quests or pointlessly stretching out battles (e.g. by waves).

Nah, the best measure of fun is the amount of times you are willing to play that game again.
And by that amount, DA:O tops DA2 handily because
1. Origins - each Origin is unique, has some more or less significant impact on the story and influences the ending. You are highly motivated to find out how the story develops and ends for each Origin.
2. Playstyles - DA:O allows you to customize your character - and your party - significantly. Just take the warrior, for example: You can play him as two-handed juggernaut, a SnS Tank, Dual Wielder (with either swords, daggers, maces or axes, each of which differ from each other by more than just damage and looks) and even Archer - and your choice of talents and specializations and attributes and skills can make every playstyle viable (although I think the magic-staff warrior sucks). In DA2 you are stuck at shield-tank and two-hander, and you'll only equip the item that is currently the best one: Equipment in DA2 is boring. Granted, DA2 made an effort with cross-class-skills, but that in return only means, that you can forget strong solo-play.
3. Exploration - In DA2 there is nothing to explore. Ergo, there is nothing to find and nothing to do, apart from following the tubular paths to the next 3-waves-battle. DA:O plays - just like DA2 - on maps of fixed size, but you can usually run around inside them in a way that creates the illusion of open space. DA2 is one step away from a rail-shooter - or rather rail-slasher.
4. Freedom - In DA:O veterans like to optimize their next play-through, and they do it by travelling to locations where specific rewards (usually weapons) boost their chosen playstyle. Not possible in DA2, simply because there is no travel. And thats a structural problem of DA2, since the big events in DA:O happen in specific places, while the big events in DA2 happen in specific times, making the whole game uncompromisingly linear.


I have no more hopes for the Dragon Age franchise - at least not if I'm looking for an RPG.
If you want a great, somewhat modern role-playing experience with a free open world, choices that matter, different playstyles, high replayability and over-the-board great fun, then grab yourselves Fallout 3 or Fallout New Vegas. Even after the fifth playthrough I'm still discovering something new.
And if your mind thirsts for high fantasy, then wait for Skyrim by the same developers.
Quality and satisfaction guaranteed.

 

[SuperJay]

Agreed on all points, DF. "Rail-slasher" is probably the best description of DA2 I've heard.

I'm just glad I never bought DA2 and only borrowed it from a friend. I guess that means I should actually finish it and return his copy, though.

 

[Disgustipated]

I borrowed my brother's copy, and he got his copy from his friend. We are all using his friends EA account. The game simply is not worth paying for. Some of the actions is fun, but none of the battles are memorable (maybe high dragon). They aren't like the epic battles of Dragon Age: Origins. Who can't remember the first time they faced a revenent in DA:O? Especially if you went to Redcliff right after Lothering, beating that thing was tough the first couple of tries.

And I admit I like lots of dialogue. I'm fearing I'm part of a dying breed of gamer. And no RPG will have any in depth dialogue ever again. EA stole the heart out of Bioware.

 

[LightSpectra]

And I admit I like lots of dialogue. I'm fearing I'm part of a dying breed of gamer. And no RPG will have any in depth dialogue ever again. EA stole the heart out of Bioware.

That's being a bit over-dramatic. I can think of plenty of franchises where the first game was a hit, the sequel was a flop but then the third installment was even better than the first.

 

[SuperJay]

I agree that this whole "sky is falling" attitude is pretty melodramatic, but when a franchise takes a dive with a game like DA2, it does make me much more cautious about purchasing the subsequent releases. I'm not all gloom and doom about it, but I certainly won't pre-order DA3 or even buy it after release without playing the full game for awhile. Unfortunately, Dragon Age has been downgraded to "rental / borrow" as a result of DA2. If DA3 turns out great, I'll buy a copy, but I'm not doing so sight-unseen.

 

[Disgustipated]

The thing is DA2 sold very well. Over a million copies at least, probably much more than that. I'm not sure how much of that was because people liked the game, or just from the name Dragon age.

 

[LightSpectra]

The thing is DA2 sold very well. Over a million copies at least, probably much more than that. I'm not sure how much of that was because people liked the game, or just from the name Dragon age.

The franchise and company name had a huge deal with it. But on the other hand, if it weren't a BioWare game or a sequel to Dragon Age: Origins, it'd probably not be so panned, just because it wouldn't have been a severe downgrade from anything.

 

[Benefactor]

I think the reason a lot of fans overreacted to this is that Bioware is the main developer for story driven RPG's, and Dragon Age was supposed to be there return to big (semi) complicated stat driven fantasy.
If the DA series turns to crap, what is left for fans of that type of game? The Elder Scrolls are ok but they are very open, their is no focus to the storyline.


I blame voice acting, you can have a lot more options in an RPG when you only have to write the dialogue. Voice acting gets expensive and hard drive intensive fast.

 

[Dachs]

I borrowed my brother's copy, and he got his copy from his friend. We are all using his friends EA account. The game simply is not worth paying for. Some of the actions is fun, but none of the battles are memorable (maybe high dragon). They aren't like the epic battles of Dragon Age: Origins. Who can't remember the first time they faced a revenent in DA:O? Especially if you went to Redcliff right after Lothering, beating that thing was tough the first couple of tries.

Honestly, the only battles that I can remember being legitimately tough - i.e. not just against an overgrown mob - were the Gaxkang fight and your first fight against a High Dragon (whether it was Flemeth or "Andraste" - although Kolgrim, weirdly, could kill you and your party a lot faster than "Andraste" could, because of the relatively tight quarters of that fight, mage support, and the dude's ridiculous damage). You could take out Gaxkang pretty fast with Mana Clash (along with pretty much every major difficult boss except for Revenants and High Dragons). And High Dragon fights were the closest thing DA:O had to DA2-style fighting.

I guess that's a little unfair - the fights against Laryn in the Dead Trenches, and against the Mother at the end of Awakening were both kinda tough - but so long as you brought Wynne along, or if you yourself were playing a Spirit Healer mage, you could pretty much just roll. Maybe I'm just immune to nostalgia.

 

[DirtyFinger]

Hmm ... the hardest fight for me was the Harvester in Golems of Angmarrak (on hardest level).

And bioware though so, too, which is why they recycled it for the next-to-last boss fight in DA2. However, like the Reapers, the new versions lacked the punch they once had.

And Gaxkang without mana clash was pretty hard, too, as well as the original campaign boss. Notice how large the final map was, where you had to maneuver from one catapult to the next while the battle against your reinforcement rages on in the center?
And then compare to the tiny dancefloor where you have to fight this anime templar girl IN WAVES.

 

[Dachs]

Yeah, the Meredith fight was kinda disappointing. I thought the hardest fights in DA2 were the ones associated with the Awiergan Scrolls - the ones that led up to the fight against Hybris. Fighting two named Revenants plus an overgrown mob corpse and a few dragonlings was pretty damn tough on that narrow path on Sundermount (solution ended up being Walking Bomb, which is retardedly useful), and the named Arcane Horrors on Sundermount and the Wounded Coast were pretty tough too. Hybris itself (touted as one of the toughest boss-fights in the game) was almost a letdown after those, because Hybris couldn't do ridiculous burst DPS like the others (alleviated on higher difficulties to an extent). And I was annoyed that they copied the basic mechanic of the Queen of the Blackmarsh for the fight against the Ancient Rock Wraith in the Deep Roads.

The Archdemon itself was an interesting boss fight - the Battle of Denerim on the whole was probably the best part of DA:O - but since it was basically just Urthemiel plus a half-zillion Hurlock and Genlock Grunts, the problem was never really in killing it, you just had to keep it up for the whole time. I never died fighting Urthemiel like I did lower down in Fort Drakon (that initial fight just past the gates was a cast-iron *****, with those two Dragon Thralls plus Emissaries in tight quarters). It was interesting, but not difficult, especially if you kept Wynne in your pocket (or if you were a Spirit Healer yourself).

 

[PhroX]

1. Origins - each Origin is unique, has some more or less significant impact on the story and influences the ending. You are highly motivated to find out how the story develops and ends for each Origin.

The thing is, the origins have zero effect on the game once your out of them. Well, alright, there's about three dialogues that are different. Going through the dwarf city (I can't remember how to spell it ) as a dwarf noble is identical as with a mage or elf. Which makes no sense given the dwarf's origin. For all the hype about them, they're just glorified tutorials and the only variety between them is in the first half hour of the game. Such a wasted opportunity.

To be honest, this kind of sums up my feelings on the way the internet has treated both DAs - all the good stuff about the first one has been so exaggerated to the point you would think it's the greatest game ever, which it's nowhere near, while all the flaws of the second have been likewise exaggerated...

 

[Disgustipated]

There is one battle on that final assault which is pretty tough (I think it's the steps going up to Fort Drakon). Several battles can be quite tough depending on your party makeup. I'm in the circle tower right now, and with Wynn it's easy street. Before I got her I was using Sten as a tank, and that was quite difficult. I now am using Shale as a tank.

I'm in the fade right now. Everyone hates the fade, but it isn't that complicated (although once you do it once, it's pretty easy after that). It's a little lengthy, but it provides a nice needed break from "reality". There's some combat in there which makes it interesting. I'm doing much better than I usually do in the fade. My first time through was very tough.

I think it's been mentioned but there's a codex entry in the fade which I want to say again. It's called: "The cardinal rules of Magic". Basically DA2 broke those rules by allowing mages to teleport in DA2. They make up for piss-poor AI and spell casting by a silly teleport feature.

Another thing I don't like about DA2 is the whole ending sequence. It feels rushed. I'm guessing DA3 will take place in Orleis, but it does seem like they set it up for the Champion to be in DA3. I know Origins made it difficult to use the Warden in DA2 (because he might be dead). I suppose Bioware learned their lesson in a way. I just don't like being forced to fight both "bosses" at the end. It made my big choice kind of small. What difference did it make if I sided with the mages if I had to fight both bosses anyways? I'll check out a youtube video of someone siding with the Templars to see how different it is (so far all the youtube Let's plays I've seen side with the mages). Can you become the Viscount of Kirkwall?

There isn't any cool option in DA2 to make one of the main protagonists a party member like in DA:O. I thought that was pretty cool.

 

[Maniacal]

Bioware has announced a new DLC campaign for DA2 which apparently has a lot of changes based off feedback from DA2. However, its rather too little too late (its probably not going to be free, they didn't make the changes to DA2 itself, previous DA DLC was complete crap and a complete waste of money and I'm not going to reinstall DA2 for it). There's an article on Rock Paper Shotgun if anyone cares about it (which I doubt).

 

[aelf]

And by that amount, DA:O tops DA2 handily because
1. Origins - each Origin is unique, has some more or less significant impact on the story and influences the ending. You are highly motivated to find out how the story develops and ends for each Origin.

Huh? About the only origin stories worth bothering about were the dwarf noble, human noble and maybe city elf origins.

I found DA:O extremely boring after a while, and that was pretty much on my first playthrough.

 

[Disgustipated]

To each their own.

Unfortunately origins don't have as big as effect on the game as I'd like. But they are interesting. Dwarf commoner is fairly interesting as well, along with mage. The worst one is probably Dalish Elf.

One other weird thing about DA2, what did they do with Flemeth? I guess they just figured we'd forget what Flemeth looked like. Actually I did forget what she looked like pretty much. After starting up DA:O again, I'm reminded. It's creepy what they did with Flemeth. Are they trying to make her some granny sexpot? I don't understand. I would rather not look at an old woman's breasts, thank you. But yes, I couldn't help but notice her breasts in DA2. It ruined the character. I guess the whole point of her being there and the quest is to show she somehow survived despite what the Warden may have done in DA1. So I'm sure she'll be in DA3. Knowing Bioware, she will be a sexual encounter in DA3.

edit: So what does the DA2 DLC fix? I am curious. Yes I have fallen off the wagon and given into the DLC trend. I still will only buy it for games I really enjoy. And DA2 I don't really enjoy that much (I gave it a D on my review). But if it fixes things, I may think twice about it. As for DA:O DLC I thought the stone prisoner was decent, although that was free as I bought the game when it first came out. It seems short, but once you get some friendship with Shale you can do his personal quest in that thaig. It's a fairly large thaig. And I finally gave in and downloaded Warden's Keep, Return to Ostagar, and Lelianna's song. The rest of the DLC doesn't look good, but these 3 interest me. I'm about to start Warden's keep right now. Unfortunately the DLC is still full price. I was hoping the price would drop in 2 years. Oh well.

 

[Maniacal]

Don't be ridiculous. As I've pointed out before, she is a shapeshifter and will take on a different look depending on her needs and whom she is appearing too. Her look in DA2 is quite suitable considering her power and reputation.

 

[Dachs]

One other weird thing about DA2, what did they do with Flemeth? I guess they just figured we'd forget what Flemeth looked like. Actually I did forget what she looked like pretty much. After starting up DA:O again, I'm reminded. It's creepy what they did with Flemeth. Are they trying to make her some granny sexpot? I don't understand. I would rather not look at an old woman's breasts, thank you. But yes, I couldn't help but notice her breasts in DA2. It ruined the character. I guess the whole point of her being there and the quest is to show she somehow survived despite what the Warden may have done in DA1. So I'm sure she'll be in DA3. Knowing Bioware, she will be a sexual encounter in DA3.

Well, she is a shapeshifter, like Scampi noted. A more meta answer would probably involve the fact that they actually had the wherewithal to develop a unique skin for an important character in DA2, as opposed to DA1. (Or that they actually cared, this time.)

To be honest, this kind of sums up my feelings on the way the internet has treated both DAs - all the good stuff about the first one has been so exaggerated to the point you would think it's the greatest game ever, which it's nowhere near, while all the flaws of the second have been likewise exaggerated...

I fully agree. And I like both games. A lot.

There is one battle on that final assault which is pretty tough (I think it's the steps going up to Fort Drakon). Several battles can be quite tough depending on your party makeup. I'm in the circle tower right now, and with Wynn it's easy street. Before I got her I was using Sten as a tank, and that was quite difficult. I now am using Shale as a tank.

Yes, that was the fight I mentioned, with the barricades, the two Dragon Thralls, and the emissaries in tight quarters. Pain in the tuchas. Bring werewolves, or if you can't swing that, dwarves.

Also, Sten is a crappy tank and he hates everything that you do. Shale is a passable tank (with a little novelty because of her separate modes of play) but, again, hates everything that you do, and lugging around her crystal armor pieces is an annoying drain on inventory. Alistair and Oghren are much better tanks, both statistically and personality-wise.

I'll check out a youtube video of someone siding with the Templars to see how different it is (so far all the youtube Let's plays I've seen side with the mages). Can you become the Viscount of Kirkwall?

Yes, you can.

There isn't any cool option in DA2 to make one of the main protagonists a party member like in DA:O. I thought that was pretty cool.

There were only two reasons to switch Alistair for Loghain in DA:O. One of them was the great conversation Loghain has with Wynne in the Return to Ostagar DLC. And the other was the conversation Loghain has with Zevran (I posted it in the OT's Great Quotes thread awhile back). He's not an improvement over Alistair in terms of stats or mechanics, he doesn't give any new quests or unlock any new areas, and his sole appearance in Awakening is to give you a few items that you can import anyway. It's an interesting novelty, but after you do it once your team *****es you out so much that you really don't feel like doing it again.

 

[DirtyFinger]

Don't be ridiculous. As I've pointed out before, she is a shapeshifter and will take on a different look depending on her needs and whom she is appearing too. Her look in DA2 is quite suitable considering her power and reputation.

Don't explain with logic what can be attributed to a stupid marketing decision!
They figured: "Old Flemmeth looks old and plain. Tits sell, so let's make her a milf. Maybe she can shapeshift her boobs or something."

End of story.