Dresden- Justified or Not?

[Reno]

Very good many brits dont even know that Finland was on Germanys side on WW II.

But the civilians of Germany didint commit any war crimes nor did the Regular Wermacht. The Naziz deserved punisment but not inocent civilians who had done nothing.

 

[privatehudson]

The Wermacht certainly was at some levels associated with war crimes such as the rounding up of civilians in the east and so on. As for the civilians, none of the civilians in war "deserves" to be bombed, actions in war are less dependent on what the enemy deserves and more on what is necessary.

 

[Reno]

Talking about war crimes makes me remember that a Finn who was part of the
SS-Wiking, When he returned to Finland he later became the defence minister of Finland.

 

[Provolution]

Well, wy do the Soviets go free as usual, all the 5th columnists in the forum. What about the Soviet mass deportions from the Baltic states, expropriations of Eastern Prussia and Memel, Massacre of the Katyn Forest and so on and so on. When you shoot a singular bullet in the head of a thousand people, at least it is personal seems to be the opinion here, where carpet bombing seems to be considered the ultimate evil.
I do not defend or attack the Dresden bombing per se, but understands it.
However, all the efforts put into Western Germany compared to the Soviet efforts into Eastern Germany, should be the true lithmus test of intentions and consequences.
I will have less of this anti-american jingoism, and this forgiveness of Soviet malice.

 

[Benderino]

Because that's off topic. Stalin was the worst man in history, no one denies that. The topic is Dresden. Make a new thread if you wanna get into that.

 

[Reno]

Well, wy do the Soviets go free as usual, all the 5th columnists in the forum. What about the Soviet mass deportions from the Baltic states, expropriations of Eastern Prussia and Memel, Massacre of the Katyn Forest and so on and so on. When you shoot a singular bullet in the head of a thousand people, at least it is personal seems to be the opinion here, where carpet bombing seems to be considered the ultimate evil.
I do not defend or attack the Dresden bombing per se, but understands it.
However, all the efforts put into Western Germany compared to the Soviet efforts into Eastern Germany, should be the true lithmus test of intentions and consequences.
I will have less of this anti-american jingoism, and this forgiveness of Soviet malice.

True the Soviets did allmost depopulate Eastern-Prussia, Poland, Silesia,
East-Pommeria by commiting atrosities to the local populace. Read the book Berlin 1945 and it will give atleast somekind of idea about those crimes that the soviets did. but back to the topic which is dresden.

 

[Provolution]

not off topic, as the bombing must be compared with real intentions and consequences of all parties.

 

[Longasc]

Anyone else here that wants to express his support of bombing civilians in various times for various reasons?

I just see the same ones here that found nuking Hiroshima a reasonable thing.


Anyone else wanting to join the list? :thumbdown

 

[Benderino]

Anyone else here who wants to turn a blind eye to German and Japanese aggression?

 

[Reno]

Anyone else here who wants to turn a blind eye to German and Japanese aggression?

If you feel that bombing inocent civilians is a good response to militarist agression then there is something very wrong with you...

 

[Benderino]

No, but I feel bombing civilians that condone the Holocaust is a very fair response.

 

[privatehudson]

If you feel that bombing inocent civilians is a good response to militarist agression then there is something very wrong with you...

And if you think that was the only or main thing the allies did during WWII then there's something you need to read about

 

[Drakan]

Bombing Dresden they way it was carried out was a War Crime without any doubts. I believe it was done in retaliation to the german bombing of Coventry, which could also be considered as a War Crime. I think Germans started to bomb civilian Brits well before with the help of V-1's and V-2's. So you cannot blame the brits really for that. Germans needed to be demoralised (although one could argue that was not the right way. As Grant used to say IIRC: War is hell); Air Marshall Goering said the allies couldn't bomb German cities and he was proved, eventually, wrong by the R.A.F. and U.S.A.F.

 

[Boleslav]

No, but I feel bombing civilians that condone the Holocaust is a very fair response.

I can't believe I just read that. What an unfair and offensive statement to make. First of all, I don't accept that your ordinary German was as involved in the Holocaust as you imply they were. Secondly, there are LOADS of examples of very courageous Germans who saved the lives of those being persecuted by the Nazis. Thirdly, I don't accept that your average German on the street even knew about the Holocaust. How could they even begin to imagine that such a thing was taking place?

The people who were killed in Dresden were inncoent civilians. Old people. Women. Children. They were people who were on the run to safety because the Allies had deliberately bombed their homes and cities. Then, when the refugee population in Dresden was at it's peak, the Allies fire-bombed them all and destroyed one of the architectural wonders of Europe. Doesn't it make you proud?

 

[Drakan]

As for nuking Hiroshima and Nagasaki:

I believe it was done to:

1) Save an estimated one million american marines life's to take over the japanese homeland. Knowing how well Japanese fight perhaps the figure would have been even larger considering it was their motherland this time.
2) Stop the ongoing War immediately.
3) Send a clear message to the U.S.S.R. regarding American Power. Even well before the end of WWII (Postdam and Yalta) Americans could tell who was going to become their next mighty foe.
4) I believe two bombs were needed because the Japanese wouldn't surrender after the first blast. Tells you much about japanese determination and will...

 

[privatehudson]

Nothing about Dresden makes me proud, it is important though to distinguish the difference between it and other raids, and further to note that nothing about war should especially make us proud, we did what we thought we had to, pride and pre-war/peacetime conceptions of how war should be thought in idealistic terms wasn't a luxury the allies could afford.

 

[amadeus]

I am proud of what we did at Dresden, and if we had to do it again, I'd support it then too. There's an enemy, you kill them. "Civilian" or not.

 

[Esckey]

So in other words rmsharpe, suicide bombings, the WTC attacks, and beheading of civilians in Iraq is all justified?



On topic: Wasn't the first bombing of London a mistake? You send 30 some bombers out to at night, during a black out with crude navigational equipment you can't expect to come anywhere near your target.

 

[Benderino]

I can't believe I just read that. What an unfair and offensive statement to make. First of all, I don't accept that your ordinary German was as involved in the Holocaust as you imply they were.

Why not? Those that do nothing are just as responsible.

Secondly, there are LOADS of examples of very courageous Germans who saved the lives of those being persecuted by the Nazis.

I know of such stories. These are great people and I thank all of them for their hard work and courage. Unfortunately, those people were very hard to come by at the time.

Thirdly, I don't accept that your average German on the street even knew about the Holocaust. How could they even begin to imagine that such a thing was taking place?

Of course they knew! How couldn't they know? "Oh yeah, all the Jews have been deported, and I was told I'll never hear from them again, but it's no biggy." Signs of Holocaust were everywhere. Those that deny they had any knowledge are liars, and you believe them.

The people who were killed in Dresden were inncoent civilians. Old people. Women. Children. They were people who were on the run to safety because the Allies had deliberately bombed their homes and cities. Then, when the refugee population in Dresden was at it's peak, the Allies fire-bombed them all and destroyed one of the architectural wonders of Europe. Doesn't it make you proud?

Not proud, but not sorry either. You condone killing, you might just get yourself killed. *shrug* That's life...and that's total war.

 

[Immortal]

They were people who were on the run to safety because the Allies had deliberately bombed their homes and cities. Then, when the refugee population in Dresden was at it's peak, the Allies fire-bombed them all and destroyed one of the architectural wonders of Europe. Doesn't it make you proud?

This comment is hilarious, anybody who believe Nazi Germany to be the victims in World War 2 is wrong, flat out. What would have made me proud is if they hadnt allowed Hitler to become powerful in the first place.

They didn't, their fault, I dont really care what happened to them because of it.

Saying THAT actually made me kind of proud.

BTW this whole refugee thing is a creation of one infamous minister who went by the name of Goebbels, I trust his word about as much as I trust his ability to walk in a straight line.