[DRN-001] BtS Any Which Way You Can

[Sorceresss]

njorls posted his "got it" on this Thursday, at 1:00 PM (Montreal/New York time).

It is now 9:30 PM...and I am going to bed to read a Stephen King novel. I'll be back to see if he has posted his save tomorrow morning, in about 12 hours. Consequently, do not expect my own "got it" before that. See ya !

 

[njorls]

Turn 0 (Turn #210, 550 AD): Remove settler and chariot from galley, they will be going north to settle 1 spot west of horses. Sent chariot in Washington north to do some scouting. Checked relations, everyone likes Zara and Brennus (of who have met them). Checked techs, we're doing fine, noone will trade anything. Checked trades, canceled Catherine's pigs for free, and started a pigs for 5 gpt. Checked espionage, looks good.

Turn 1: Hammurabi wants us to cancel with Russia. As catherine is pleased and Hammer plopped a city on our island that'll have to be removed, I tell him no. Looks like we got an enemy.
New York finishes Axeman, starts Worker. Philadelphia finishes Missionary, starts Barracks.
Gscientist born in Chicago. He can bulb Philosophy and get us another religion, as well as Pacifism civic which would leverage our Special Economy. Or he could build an academy in Chicago which would also help the special economy as that will be a nice science center. We have a big civics change coming up and adding pacifism to the list without anarchy would be nice. And it would help the next great person get here faster. And it gives us a head start on the Liberalism race. I bulb Philosophy and Taoism founded in Philadelphia.

Turn 2: Civil Service is in, and I do a 4 for no anarchy civics change:

Research Metal Casting for forges and triremes. If Hammurabi does act up a navy is the best prevention.
Spy finishes Chicago, start National Epic. Spy will do some sneaking in Hammurabi's backyard. I max EPs on Hammurabi to see research.

Turn 5: Sistine Chapel finished in Washington. Mouse pointer hovers over Parthenon. Visions of more shiny wonders fill my eyes. I do the disciplined thing, our capital's built 2 wonders the last 2 rounds and needs to increase our military. Plain old boring axeman coming up.

Turn 6: I remember we're in Pacifism and not in HR and our warriors probably aren't doing much good and costing us money. So I give them pink slips.
MC done, what to research next... I choose construction, it'll tech us to Engineering which is +1 road movement and gives us catapults which are an essential part of any army.
Check relations, Catherine's down to cautious because HR was her favorite civic. Zara's cautious too so I sell him clam for 2 gpt in an attempt to get him friendlier.

Turn 8: Construction in, boy this is fun... oh wait? What? The golden age is over? Oh well. Research set to Machinery for Macemen. Hammurabi is researching Theology.

Turn 10: Cathy offers Feudalism for Aesthetics and 110 gold. No thanks.
Zara offers Feadalism and 90 gold for MC. Feudalism is partly researched, but I take it in an effort to get him friendlier.

San Francisco founded:

We're at 238 gold and 8 gpt surplus at 60% research with San Francisco built, time to found another city.

Spy reaches Hammurabi's capital, time to do some spying. I've never done missions with mine so any input on what to do would be nice. I'm just going to scout around for now.

Hammurabi completes the Mahabodi. Oh, it's his shrine.

Scouting chariot reaches Hammurabi's iron city. It's protected by a single axeman. The barbarian city to the east is better protected, with 2 archers.

Turn 12: Chicago reaches maximum size. Assign all scientists I can while still working all food.

Turn 13: I parked our exploring chariot to the north in a galley. The barbarians had their worker out working with the galley where it was, if it happens again steal the worker.

Turn 14: Great prophet born in Washington. Gets sent to New York to build the shrine.

Turn 15: Great Scientist born in Chicago. Builds Academy. Let's take a look inside:

137 beakers. Nice.
Trade Cow for Corn to Catherine, and Gold for Silk and Pig to Zara.

Demographics: We're 1 in GNP and Production, 3 in soldiers.
Relations: Zara, Cathy are Cautious, rest are Annoyed. Noone has cancelled our OB.
Currently researching Engineering for the road bonus, 4 turns left.
We're -1 gpt at 70% research and can build another city, I put a suggestion sign on the map, settler being built in Philadelphia.

 

[azaris]

Looks like we're pulling ahead. I would recommend keeping enough EP weight on ZY at all times so that we see his research. It's useful to know what the AI tech leader is up to.

Don't let our spy enter any of the cities, I think the computer has spies for protection by now. Just walk around the countryside and scout all of Hammurabi's land so that if we invade we'll have a full picture. After that he can camp outside Babylon waiting for the invasion force.

We should build one more courthouse and then put the Forbidden Palace in Philly.

Going to war is a bit tricky. We can't build an army until we have iron, but we won't have iron until we go to war.

 

[pigswill]

Maces are copper or iron so that's ok. We've got cats. We've got longbows. We've got spears. Once we've got iron we can build crossbows and pikes but we have enough for a (hopefully short) war.

 

[doronron]

I haven't played enough with espionage to know all the spy features, yet. Can we incite a revolt in Iron city without causing war? Can we incite revolts at all, or is it just foment unhappiness?

I would suggest whatever war we start with Hammie on our land is coupled with a spy attack in his. Lots of unhappiness in his cities, if possible.

 

[njorls]

What I think 'revolt' does is put the city in revolt for 1 turn, which removes the culture defense. It's probably not needed though, I bet the chariot in the galley would get favorable odds on his lone axeman, and a maceman would be overwhelming force.

I don't think he has MC yet (though Zara could have traded with him ) so our triremes would be uncontested pillaging his workboats and doing blockades. It should annoy him enough to agree for a quick peace.

*Edit* And I think the city should be razed and moved 1 tile south, settling on iron is just so uncouth.

 

[Sorceresss]

Friday morning (9:30) :

As promised, I'm back 12 hours later. Bad luck : njorls posted his save 3 minutes after I left the forum, yesterday evening. I would have played my turns if I had obtained it then (instead of going away to read a book).

Oh, well : GOT IT . I will read your comments before playing. I should have finished (analysis included) sometime before 11:55.

EDIT > 11:20 AM....Finished! But I have to compose the analysis. Will post it with the save before noon, in another post (below).

 

[doronron]

Agree with njorls. Once war begins with Hammi, raze the iron city.

 

[Sorceresss]

T. 226 (790 AD : my first turn) > Remove chariots from cities to concentrate them in the north-east to go destroy the barbarian town of Chehalis (3 pop).

T. 227 (805 AD : T2) > Nothing special.

T. 228 (820 AD : T3) > Seattle has finished a granary. I select a library.

T. 229 (835 AD : T4) > Concentration of 4 chariots accomplished.

T. 230 (850 AD : T5) >

230.1 > Engineering research finished. I select Horseback Riding : it's only 2 turns and will eventually lead to Knights.

230.2 > Washington finished a market. I select the Colossus wonder (only 6 turns).

230.3 > A message declares that our civ has reached 5 million pop.

230.4 > I send the 4-chariot task-force north against the barbarian town.

T. 231 (860 AD : T6) > We now progress in increments of 10 years per turn.

T. 232 (870 AD : T7) >

232.1 > Research finished. I select Drama (only 2 turns).

232.2 > Philadelphia has finished Settler. I select Aquaduct because the city's growth is very near a public health problem.

232.3 > I send the settlers to the north-east, where njorls has left a flag.

T. 233 (880 AD : T8) >

233.1 > Trireme in New York. I select Stable (new item available due to research).

233.2 > Chariots took barbarian town with no losses ! 53 gold have been pillaged. One worker unit gained. I burn the town, since our settlers are founding a city nearby. (I thus join the Doronron Destroyer Club.)

233.3 > Settlers found Miami, a little to the south of the burned town. That location had been recommended by njorls.

T. 234 (890 AD : T9) >

234.1 > Drama researched. I select Paper (quick).

234.2 > Collossus wonder finished in Washington. I select the Sh...Paya wonder next (won't take a long time).

T. 235 (900 AD : T10) > Nothing special.

T. 236 (910 AD : T11) > Atlanta has finished a market. I go for a library next.

T. 237 (920 AD : T12) > Nothing special.

T. 238 (930 AD : T13) > Paper researched. I select Compass (quick), so pigswill shall have the privilege of choosing a new research item on his very first turn.

T. 239 (940 AD : T14) > Ethiopian Zara & I exchange our world maps.

T. 240 (950 AD : T15) > Nothing special. Two wonders in 2 cities on the way.

My predecessor (njorls) left me a 253-gold treasury at a 70% research-rate.
I leave my successor (pigswill) a 888-gold treasury at a 70% r-r.

Here it is : http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/66970/MDR_AD-0950.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[njorls]

Well I'll be, Sorceress has some in her!

I'm surprised you took and razed the barb city but that's fine, we can always build another later there. If you keep it and we don't want it we can't raze it retroactively. I wanted to steal the worker there, but you found a much more direct approach

1 more city would be able to take up the remaining resources in the North once Hammurabi is evicted. SE of the city would be able to work pigs, wheat, and iron but it wouldn't be coastal. We'd be done settling the north, another city SE of New York to work the seafood resource there, and our island is all to ourselves. Coast is nice though, and even nicer with Colossus.

I'm not sure if we need Shwedaygon Paya, it enables all religious civics. We already have 3 of the 5. Theocracy can be gotten easily with Thelogy which would be a fast research or a trade. Free religion is gotten through Liberalism which we will be needing anyway, first, for the free tech.

It sounds like we can afford to raise the espionage slider as we're teching really fast and have a big surplus. We should spread the points around too, I had all of them toward Hammurabi.

Compass and Theater are always good for harbors and theaters.

Optics would be nice for the circumnav bonus. But I haven't checked the save or the tech tree yet.

 

[doronron]

Good job, Sorceresss! A turnset very well played.

 

[Sorceresss]

Thanks

1. I razed the barbarian town because njorls had flagged a city-spot very close to it and had launched the production of a Settler. Consequently, I believed that founding Miami on that flagged spot was more important than keeping the barbarian town. I admit that I did not have enough experience in the C4 game to evaluate the merits of not razing. I believed that njorls's flag was a priority and did not want to have 2 cities so close to each other.

2. The Sch...Paya wonder was selected for 3 reasons : The glory of getting another wonder + its cultural value + it did not take that much time to get. I did not consider the religious dimension of the Paya wonder.

3. In what concerns the rest, I played my usual, cautiously administrative game. I wanted to research a few quickie items, and give to pigswill the freedom to engage into a longer project on his very first turn.

 

[pigswill]

Got it.

Had a look. Think we can put a city 2 south of iron, grabs all three resources and has a lot of workable tiles though it won't be coastal.
Loaded a few units for the long march north.
Temporarily diverted Chiacgo to building settler for replacement city.
I've set Washington to knock out some missionaries to get culture (and civics) in our newer cities.

We should have the continent to ourselves fairly soon. Maybe its time to think about the need for further expansion. Optics is probably the next tech then maybe head towards liberalism.

We could have two cities up north; west city would be ok with iron for production but east city would have one food source and no production; its ok medium term but long term one major city in the middle will help us more.

 

[azaris]

Is it wise to use Chicago for anything other than research? With max scientists configured it produces an awesome amount of beakers - having to spend a few extra turns in getting the last cities up should not be a problem so that the settlers can be built elsewhere.

 

[pigswill]

Good point re Chicago, few deals and some tile reassignments: Chicago stagnant growth, 10hammers, 150 beakers and 140 gppt. It does mean that there's a bunch of cottages and farms that ain't getting worked. Philadelphia can build a settler in 9 turns.
Time to play some turns.

 

[pigswill]

Played 15 turns up to 1100ad.

Here's the save:http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/90414/MDR_AD-1100.CivBeyondSwordSave

Apart from a quick war it was fairly uneventful.

T240.
Washington SP>ConMiss (culture for new cities, gold for shrine).
Philadelphia >Settler (9turns).
Espionage: 10EP Brennus, 4EP rest.
Deals: Cathy, cancel pigs for 5gpt, get pigs for rice, silk for wine. Chicago becomes happy and healthy. Adjust tiles to run 10H, 150B, 140 gpt.
Units head north.

T241.
Compass>Optics (3 turns).
Seattle >Courthouse
Boston >Harbour.
Chicago>Harbour.

T242.
Washington. Conmiss>Conmiss
Seattle Confucian.

T243.
Babylonian settling party lands on our island (bowman+settler).

Decide to attack before they settle a city (free worker+easier target). However made a deal with ZY first (he may not like us after we declare on his pal): theology+map+60g for music. Declare War on Hammurabi . Chariot kills bowman (86%) and captures worker .
Meanwhile Beethoven (a Great Artist) is born in Chicago and decides to have a nap.
Sell WM to SB for WM+60g.

T244.
Our spy is caught in the Babylonian countryside.
Optics>Education (7 turns).
Upgrade a couple of triremes to caravels.
Borsippa (Babylonian iron city) is defended by a Scout! . But not for long. City razed, another worker captured, 78 gold.
Washington Conmiss>Conmiss

T245.
Having just upgraded a couple of triremes we get a Random Event: all triremes get free Combat1 . Remaining trireme benefits then upgrades to caravel.
Washington: Conmiss>Caravel.
Chicago changes a scientist to a spy just in case.
New York >Harbour.

T246. zzz

T247.
Miami turns Confucian.

T248.
Trireme v Galley (78%). Loses!
Washington: Caravel>Harbour.
Deal with Brennus. We trade horses for spices+5gpt.
Peace with Hammurabi:

T249.
San Francisco Granary>Courthouse.

T250.
Its the Millenium .
ZY celebrates by making an outrageous demand:

We decline.

Los Angeles is founded:

And its already converted to Confucianism.

T251.
Education>Liberalism (6turns).
Washington. Harbour>Uni
Chicago Harbour>Uni
Boston Harbour>Barracks
Philadelphia >Settler (for ice/crab city down south).
GS (can't remember which one) appears in Chicago and has a nap.

T252 zzz

T253 zzz

T254 zzz

T255.
Deal with Zy. Cancel clams for 2 gpt, get wheat for 4gpt.

We're runing a couple of spy specialists to improve espionage.

We've got a GA and a GS in Chicago. Enough for our second golden age or we could wait until our empire expands a bit more. Meanwhile could use GS for an academy somewhere.

Caraevls are sailing round to check out circumnavigation before going for general exploration.

Catherine has education and philosophy but is researching currency; may be heading towards economics. Sitting Bull has education but not philosophy. No-one else is close to liberalism.

We've got 914 gold at +4gpt.

We need to be working on our power rating in the next couple of sets:

Overall we're not doing too badly though:

End of Set.

 

[yena]

Got it. Another good turn set. We now have liberated our continent which is a major mile stone. With ten cities I think we are able to pursue any victory condition, so now it is the time to decide how to proceed. I see no previous discussion on this, and would appreciate your input before I play my turns.

Personally I think space is easy but a bit boring, and domination/conquest is too much work now that the BtS AI:s build enormous armies (and Sourceress said previously that she prefers mostly peaceful games). My vote would to try for the diplomatic or religious victories. We could spread Confucianism and build the Apostolic palace.

 

[pigswill]

Apostolic Palace seems worth exploring, turning the world Confucian in the process. At least we've got theology.

Space is likely to take a while but we'd probably get to look at corporations in the process and check out modern units/buildings/wonders.

 

[Sorceresss]

Sourceress said previously that she prefers mostly peaceful games

I did not mean by that that you guys should make this present game a peaceful one !

It only meant that I'm more a cautious administrator than a courageous warrior.

Go for any Victory type you wish : I do not mind.

 

[azaris]

The game is not even close to won yet. We have only 10 cities and Catherine is already starting to swell into a future behemoth. The AIs might be backward now but they catch up quickly when we get into the industrial age. Having to research all those expensive techs on our own will slow us down. It's not looking promising for diplomatic either, Cathy and Brennus form a powerful alliance.

I'd like to take over Hammurabi's and Sitting Bull's lands before we start any kind of tech race to space.