[DRN-001] BtS Any Which Way You Can

[doronron]

Alright. We'll keep a slower pace on the expansion. It sounds like our economy needs a bit of a boost before we can do much more. This is a "got it" for the save, but I won't be able to play for at least another 12 hours.

I'll take a look at the espionage and foreign policy situation tonight once I'm back home. I don't think Slave Revolts are caused by enemy spies -- they're just a random event linked to having adopted the slavery civic. I guess we did at some point (which makes sense). I didn't look at our civics in my last turn.

 

[njorls]

I checked the save. It looks like only Zara has lit out of everyone (everyone else needs aesthetics which is a prereq) and he has 3 total cities and no marble. So I think Glib is ours, as more mines in Chicago come online it should finish faster. Though there is that 7th civ we haven't met yet.

Great Lighthouse would be a nice prize, it would help our economy a bit which does need work. We want at least 20 gold for happy little accidents like slave revolts and mines caving in. It's been available for a while so maybe a whip here to rush it is in order. *Edit*: Though missing it would be gold so that's not so bad.

So after Math, what tech should we research? Calendar would get us silk which is a good commerce tile. And more happiness, and sugar when we get a city in the jungle. Currency gets another trade route, markets which are 25% more commerce, and we can build wealth in a city. We could also sell old techs for gold and trade excess resources for gold per turn. I'm thinking currency would help the economy sooner and let us research Calendar faster.

Espionage: 2 more courthouses come online next round, that's 4 more EP. Assigning a spy specialist in Chicago can be done as well after the Glibrary, or anywhere else with a courthouse, for more EP. And none of those require the slider. Some civs haven't met others yet so they don't have to spread their EP around as much as we do.

 

[doronron]

I'll micro Chicago a bit to get the GLib running as fast as possible. I think the Lighthouse would also be useful, too, so I'll see what can be done there.

It seems like our tech pather is either happiness or economy. Most of the discussion so far points to the economy as the issue of the day, but how happy are our people?

 

[njorls]

We're in Hereditary Rule so adding another archer to a city = 1 more happiness. It's pretty controllable.

 

[yena]

Calendar will give us more happiness without adding to unit support costs.

 

[doronron]

Inherited Turn (100 AD) - First thing I did was remove the signs. I took a look at our cities. A lot of growth since my last turn.

Turn 1 (115 AD) - Cathy comes demanding Pigs. She has a rival religion. +5 in favor, -3 against. I seem to recall we wanted to buddy-buddy with Cathy for the time being, so I give the pigs.

That puts her to Pleased. We can get her to convert to our religion for Monotheism. I leave the option on the table if anyone else wants to do this. I don't know how important Monotheism is to you guys.

Philly builds its courthouse. I debate on the Statue of Zeus, since its effect never goes away, but decide against it -- for this town, anyway. I begin the Granary.

We meet Sitting Bull of the Native Americans. He's Jewish.

Turn 2 (130 AD) - Getting our workers working!

Turn 3 (145 AD) - Sitting Bull asks for open Borders. I set it up.

And we get the Great Lighthouse! I start The Pyramids (29 Turns)

Turn 4 (160 AD) - Mathematics discovered. I begin Currency. We are earning cash, now, so I push the research slider up 10%. This cuts two turns off. I check Yaqob. He's pleased. He has Calendar. We have nothing he wants for it.

Turn 5 (175 AD) - One Worker returns to Washington to start chopping the Pyramids. He'll arrive in three turns.

Turn 6 (190 AD) - Nothing.

Turn 7 (205 AD) - Two million people in our borders. Cities are asking to train Settlers. I tell them no. We now have enough EP on Cathy to see her research. She's on Feudalism.

Turn 8 (220 AD) - Continuing our work.

Turn 9 (235 AD) - Great Library is ours! A slave revolt has occurred in the Russian city of Moscow. Excellent!

Turn 10 (250 AD) - Yaqob offers Calendar and 30 Gold for Currency. I tell him no. When I look at our tech tree. I decide to make the deal. He turns the table and will not take it unless we offer 40 gold plus Currency. I take it. I made a mistake. We're now researching Feudalism for the Longbowman.

Boston is now building the Statue of Zeus.

I increase our Science Rate to 70%. We're at +4gpt.

Turn 11 (265 AD) - Great Spy born in Washington! Russia captures the Barbarian City of Banni. I immediately establish our great spy in Washington as a Super Specialist for +3 Beakers and +12 Espionage Points.

Turn 12 (280 AD) - Chicago begins building the Mosolleum of Maussollos for +50% Golden Age Length. Does not expire. Hammurabi has our Iron.

Turn 13 (295 AD) - Yaqob has gone Buddhist. This puts him at cautious with us, and our diplomatic penalties and bonuses are equal. Cathy will still convert to Confucianism if we give her Monotheism.

Chicago is now too crowded. The MoM is 13 turns away. The Market can take 10, but we have no Silk hooked up, yet. I leave it for now.

Turn 14 (310 AD) - Library begun in Philly.

Turn 15 (325 AD) - Chicago - Whipped Mosolleum to kill the overcrowding (and the unhappy people).

New York is also overcrowded. It'll complete its Temple next round. I began a Market there, and in Chicago. Our first plantation is being built now.

Wonders:
Washington - The Pyramids (15 Turns)
Boston - Statue of Zeus (25 Turns)
Chicago - Mosolleum of Mausollos (Next Turn)

Unhappy:
New York - Overcrowding

Note: Hammurabi is not alone on his continent.

I would strongly suggest we do the deal with Cathy. Let's get the next strongest power in the game in our pocket. We are isolated diplomatically!

HERE is the save.

 

[doronron]

A little worried about the future at the moment. The MoM and the SoZ are largely a means to help aid in any kind of war effort or tech surge on our part. We may need more units, but I don't know how far away the others are in gaining ships that could reasonably hit us with an amphibious invasion. Lots of nice cities -- weak garrisons. I think I might be playing this too much like a Civ/Warlords game...

 

[njorls]

I think you went for too many wonders. Museum of Maussolus is good, we have the marble that speeds it up. But Pyramids is a big commitment without stone. And Statue of Zeus is a big commitment without Ivory. I think we should concentrate on infrastructure, expanding, and units and not slow building wonders.

I liked your trade for Calendar, it's definitely needed. And converting Cathy would be nice, allies are always good. We're alone in our religion and Monotheism's cheap.

I think we need to expand faster, the economy's real good but it looks like the AI is settling our land.

For research, Civil Service would give 50% to Washington's production and commerce output with Bureacracy.

 

[doronron]

The Pyramids is 15 turns off. That's not bad, considering, and we've got worker(s) in the vicinity to chop woods for silk. It'll also give us access to some necessary civics -- Representation in particular. The SoZ was put into production because I figured the +100% War Weariness for our enemies would allow us to better control when wars end, and it never expires.

If you really feel a Wonder needs to be stopped, the SoZ would probably be it. We're close to the Pyramids, and it'll really help us in the long run.

I did realise one point about the deal with Cathy. I believe there are still undiscovered religions on the list. Doesn't Monotheism grant a religion? If so, Cathy would likely be Confucian for one turn. But maybe not...

 

[njorls]

Monotheism grants Hinduism to the 1st person to discover it but nothing to those who trade/research it later.

Representation's a pretty big change, you need to run lots of specialists to leverage it. And it's a little counter intuitive in you build farms instead of cottages to get more food to run more specialists, and you run the science slider lower or even at 0%. But if people want the pyramids I'll go along. It can also open up police state for some good old fashioned

Catherine's a little dangerous as an ally, she tends to backstab. Her UU replaces cavalry and is a good UU, so I'd treat it as an alliance of convenience.

 

[pigswill]

If we're rich enough to run research at a decent rate then we're probably rich enough to expand northwards; at least two more cities, possibly three to stop Hammy getting too comfortable.

 

[azaris]

Got it.

We are in HR but cities have their happiness maxed out with a single unit in defense?

Hammurabi put a city on our iron so our first target is now clear. His own choice, really.

The Pyramids are pretty late, they could go any turn now. Still, nice wonder if you can get it. The MoM is my favorite new wonder, but now it will pollute our scientist pool from the GLibrary. Grabbing wonders on Prince is certainly possible and sometimes a good strategy, but GP pollution needs to be considered. I'm going to veto the SoZ. It's very very annoying in AI hands - imagine trying to attack Sitting Bull who has the SoZ. However, I still don't think it's worth the effort.

We should try to be first to Music. It's a free Golden Age and we already built the MoM. ZY might beat us to it, though. Two turns of spying will reveal what he's researching so if it turns out he will finish Music first we have only wasted two turns worth of research.

 

[doronron]

It's unfortunate that the MoM will pollute Chicago's GP production. SoZ, MoM, and the Pyramids all seemed like necessary builds to me, though. The Pyramids got priority, which is why I dropped it into Washington. It'll dilute our spies a bit, but that shouldn't be much of a problem (we still have EP producing buildings to put down). Statue of Zeus was to add a little extra leverage during war, and to deny one of our neighbors from grabbing it -- especially since its effect never goes away. I understand it's a real bear to contend with.

The Mosolleum seemed like a good idea because it, too, never goes away, and it will make our Philisophical trait that much stronger.

Sorry about not building more troops, though.

Let's see what the next round brings. Hopefully I didn't hurt us much.

EDIT:

Note -- Remember that any religion granting tech can now found any religion.

 

[yena]

I think our economy is strong enough to build two more cities.

 

[doronron]

Then we should go for it. Should we expand north with both cities to claim resources, or is the Wheat/Oasis spot between Washington and Atlanta useful enough to link our eastern and western halves?

 

[njorls]

Note -- Remember that any religion granting tech can now found any religion.

That's a variant you can play, where when you're the 1st to research a religion granting tech, you can pick which one you want. But we're not playing that, when we were first to CoL we got Confucianism, the default religion.

I agree with more cities up north, we're in the land grab stage of the game and have to grab as much land as we can. Backfilling should be done soon, Cathy plonking down a city in the middle of our empire would be a big pain.

We have all the techs needed to expand, CoL for courthouses, Currency for wealth, Calendar for our last worker tech. So if research does suffer for a bit it's not that bad, we have the means to make it better researched already. And it'll pick up as the new cities start to pay for themselves.

*Edit*: I like your Music gambit Azaris. It leverages the Masoleum. But I'd hold off on the golden age until more cities settled.

 

[azaris]

Turn 0: Switch research to Music and EPs to ZY as discussed. I also bumb the espionage slider to 10% so we can see ZY's research in 1 turn instead of 2. Pyramids microed down to 12 turns. Boston, Philly -> archer (we need garrison units).

Turn 1: Mausollos is dead but we own his mausoleum. Good news is that ZY is researching Feudalism, so we will be first to Music. Atlanta -> lighthouse. New York -> missionary. I convert Chicago to run two extra scientists so that we get our first GS sooner. I trade pigs to Brennus for gems, raising our happy cap by one.

IBT: Cathy wants Monotheism. I give it to her.

Turn 2: New York -> axeman.

Turn 3: Boston -> settler.

Turn 4: zzz

Turn 5: Chicago -> settler. Atlanta -> courthouse. I cancel OB with Sitting Bull because Cathy hates him.

IBT: We are the 2nd most advanced civ, behind ZY.

Turn 6: Confu spread in Philadelphia.

Turn 7: Fire destroyed forge in Bibracte. I whip the Pyramids in order not to lose them now.

Turn 8: Music is in and we get medieval in 445 AD. At the same time Washington completes The Pyramids and Raphael is born. Hello, 15 turns of Golden Age! Washington -> Sistine Chapel (now there's a wonder I do want). Researching Civil Service.

Turn 9: zzz

Turn 10: New York -> axeman. Chicago -> galley.

Turn 11: We can now see everyone's demographics. Boston -> lighthouse. Chicago -> worker. Atlanta -> market. A great scientist is born in Chicago. I'm not convinced that the land up north is very good, so maybe we could plop a city on the other continent?

Turn 12: Philly -> missionary.

IBT: Zara wants Music. No way.

Turn 13: zzz

Turn 14: New York -> axeman. Chicago -> spy. Seattle founded, still breaking even at 70% when in GA.

Turn 15: Boston -> galley. We have a galley loaded up with a chariot and a settler and ready to go. The great scientist is still waiting in Chicago, we might want to use him to lightbulb our way to Liberalism. CS is almost done and we have 8 more turns of GA to go. I recommend changing any civics (Bureaucracy + Representation?) while the GA is still ongoing to avoid anarchy.

Diplomatically we are good friends with Cathy. Hammurabi and Sitting Bull are not so friendly towards us.

 

[pigswill]

We're making progress (and peacefully as well).

Jungle is excellent land once cleared.

Has Taoism gone yet? If not bulbing GS on philosophy would be worth doing.

Demographics look good (except for military).

What about buro, rep and caste, start Chicago on scientists.

 

[doronron]

Nice job Azaris!

Looking forward to seeing how this game rolls over the next group of turnsets. We're doing good, even if we are 5th in military might! Kinda dread the day one of our rivals gets good ships.

Can we still get Cathy to change her state religion?

 

[njorls]

Got it. Haven't checked the save but it looks like a nice turnset.

I'm planning a jump to Bureacracy and Representation once CS comes in. I'm thinking about Caste System as well for more specialists. We can change for free during the golden age so might as well do as many as we can.

So for a specialist economy we want farms over cottages. At the least, no cottages inside Chicago, that will have as many scientist specialists as possible and wants as big a food surplus as we can give it. I know people love to put down cottages, but with 3 extra beakers and 2 culture per specialist, specialists are the way to go. Cottage up Washington though, it'll be our commerce city.

I'm also going to put a city north, to claim the 2 sugar tiles and as much of the other grassland as possible.

Caste system means no more slavery and pop rushing, but our civics and wonders leverage specialists now.

Hmm, Sistine Chapel, I never built it in one of my games. I bet we could take Hammurabi's city up north peacefully now.