Druid's hideout

druidravi · Apr 12, 2007

When you attach a warlord unit to 10 units group the game asks to which unit you want the warlord to be added to and will add 2 exp to all units.For the warlord unit if those 2exp don't push it above a promotion experience you will have no free promotion as well. Only you will get free upgrades to next unit in the promotion line with all your exp in place and you can later promote your units into those warlord special promos .

Grey fox : You are right about the top defender being the one selected most of times. I told you i lost an archer to a mali axe in my turn set. If that archer was not there our top archer would have been the defender with lesser chance to win since it was injured. What would have happened then was our top archer would have been lost. My point is sometimes even at 99.9% chance of victory our unit can get badly injured leaving it vulnerable to the next battle. Since we are protective archers will mostly be defenders unless they are too injured. There is a danger of our archer dying even in pre-catapult combat without other archers for support.
I think one thing we can do is rotation of archers. Once our top archer is guirella 2, city garrison 3, drill4 . Move it to the stone quarry and let other archers get the promos. This way we will get a lot of strong archers with high drill promos as well. Later when knights show up only one mega longbow will go down to groups of knights easily due to immunity to first strikes. If on the other hand we have several say 10 longbows with city garrison 3, guirella 2 , and some level of drill it would be a breeze.

Also consider the point that our archer when promoted to longbow gets its exp reset to 10 only retaining its promotions. It would be a waste of exp again getting it to that 40,50 exp point for a next promotion. Btw i love the discussion we are having in a game which apparently consists of only hitting enter in your turnsets :goodjob:

GreyFox · Apr 12, 2007

druidravi said:
I think one thing we can do is rotation of archers. Once our top archer is guirella 2, city garrison 3, drill4 . Move it to the stone quarry and let other archers get the promos. This way we will get a lot of strong archers with high drill promos as well. Later when knights show up only one mega longbow will go down to groups of knights easily due to immunity to first strikes. If on the other hand we have several say 10 longbows with city garrison 3, guirella 2 , and some level of drill it would be a breeze.

That is a good idea. :thumbsup:

ruff_hi · Apr 12, 2007

This was a fairly fun turn set.

Military
I did build another 2 archers and 1 longbow near the end of my turn set. Its funny being able to promote a newly minted archer to Drill IV right off the bat. I mis-clicked on one of the archers and he ended up Drill II and City Garrison II ... oh well. I also build 2 new Triremes (what is the plural for Trireme?) and, based on the discussion re promotions for the archers, gave them Drill I and Drill II. It will be interesting to see how that maps out. They should have a higher chance of surviving multiple attacks.

We also saw our first cat attacks. I don't think that they had much of an impact, maybe someone can comment on this after looking at the log. Note that the log does not record units withdrawing (happened several times, mainly chariots).

Highlights on this front ...
Battle Stats:
Units victorious while attacking : 0
Units victorious while defending : 66
Units defeated while attacking : 0
Units defeated while defending : 2

Spoiler how do dump battle stats to the log :

I don't think that we need to rotate our main defender. The second and third archers were seeing some action. The longbow saw action on his very first day out of the barracks. However, slight modifications to the promotions might be in order (city garrison, combat, anti-horse promotions [what is that promotion called? Formation?] for some, drill for others). I think we need to get a pike up and super-promoted as soon as possible.

Tech
Civil Service came in and we revolted to Bureaucracy. I then picked up Iron Working (a bit of MM to get it in 1 turn!) and then bee-lined to Feudalism for longbows. I then set the tech to machinery for macemen ... we are about half way through metal casting (IIRC).

London
After CS came in, I went max-hammers to get our theatre upgraded to a Globe Theatre (I think we had 1 turn of unhappiness as I let the city grow on the turn before GT completed - touch luck!). I then wasn't sure what to do with the city set-up ... max food to GROW! or something else. I think this is a discussion point. I think that will we can work 3+ food tiles, we should grow - this should maximize the number of specialists we can run. We were very close to unhealthiness so I build us a Granary and Aqueduct (both completed in 1 or 2 turns). We now have 18 health v 13 unhealth (IIRC).

Great People
Well, you are probably wondering about our GP production. My luck continues to hold in this regard and we got 2 (!) great scientists - the first at 64% probability. I used 1 for the academy and merged the other. We also got a Great General on my last turn set (still in London).

Discussion Points

City set up - max food until we can work all our 3+ food tiles or ...?
Promotions - I think that we need to send 1 or 2 longbows down the city garrison / combat / anti-horse track. Our super defender already has the anti-horse promotion which (in hindsight) might not have been the best - makes him more likely to be selected against knights that ignore First Strike ... but I'm not sure on that comment
Rotation of Units - I'm not sure that this is necessary as our secondary units were seeing some action. It might be a good idea ... or it might be a REALLY BAD IDEA.
Tech - macemen and then pikes. Do we want to build some collateral damage units ourselves to reduce the strength of the stacks? That might just be a waste of hammers.
GG - we need to merge our super-defender with a GG (or his experience re-sets to 10 after we upgrade him (its currently on 80-ish IIRC). I would suggest stepping him and the GG out of London, merge him and then giving him the double-experience promotion. The other two special ones (withdrawal and mobility) would be wasted on a defender).
Medic (part 1) - we have 1 ... a Medic I axe (or it could be a spear). If I had my thinking cap on last night, I would have squeezed in a scout and given him Combat I, Medic I & II promotions - he should come off the presses with 9XPs to burn. The next player should do this.
Medic (part 2) - do we need a super medic? That would mean merging a GG with our medic scout (or explorer). Is that a waste of a GG or something that could mean the difference between life and death?

Next Player Suggestions from Ruff

Build Scout, promote to Combat I, Medic I & II
Rename the units (Axe I, Axe II, etc) so that it is easier to tell them apart in the log

Spoiler autolog :

Spoiler :

The Save

ruff_hi · Apr 12, 2007

negyvenketto · Apr 12, 2007

Nice progress, can't wait to play again tonight (3-5h from now) = 'Got it'

Cabledawg · Apr 12, 2007

Lurker Youre gonna need a Medic 3 sooner rather than later. Build a chariot and never promote him all game. With the amount of Great generals youll be producing, which will be insane.....and youll be merging them, youll end up with Level 5 units out of the gate. I suggest ignoring alot of techs and make a semi beeline to rifling and then to Assembly line. I would ignore Construction and Engineering as an example. Those 2 dont give you anything you dont allready have. Pikemen wont be selected as a defender when you have a Longbow at 70XP. After Assembly Line, you should give units the river crossing promotion and start attacking. I think because you are declaring on each civ individually instead of AW, the amount of WW will get to a critical level for the AI....ie, there will be a point where youll have an advantage.

Wheres your oil?....I hope its not in an ocean tile as youll never get it. And since you wont get it, they will overrun your galleons and land 100 cavalry. Better to Worldbuild the oil as the capitols tile.

ruff_hi · Apr 12, 2007

Cabledawg said:
Lurker Youre gonna need a Medic 3 sooner rather than later. Build a chariot and never promote him all game.

Why a chariot? What is wrong with a medic scout / explorer?

druidravi · Apr 12, 2007

Nice work ruff. I would like the luck for Great scientists to continue. I think we don't need to sac a scientist for education since we were the first to philosophy ,the Ai ignores researching it if it cannot find a relegion. Liberalism race should be in bag. Is hanging gardens built yet. if not we might be able to build it now. From now on lets build only wonders having GE and GS points. Several of your combats we had to go 70 , 80, 60, even 40 odds in some combats. This was because once our primary archers got injured , we had no spare archers to take on the burden. As the flood of Units is increasing and cats ,longbows making an appearance we better get to a 10 longbow defence. We don't need to go to pikes though since we can build formation jumbos out of bat.

I made a post where I asked whether should we make a goal of a 500+ exp unit. I think thats possible with leadership promo. We can attach it to our main archer and give it leadership, formation and the combat line till combat 6 .
But we need to cover its back when it gets injured so the 10 longbows. next GG could me a medic 3 chariot.

Ruff: Nothing wrong with explorer. But a medic 3 chariot>cavalry is a bit more cough*manly*cough. We can give it leadership promo and use it to attack when we have those >99.95 odds. Since we are charismatic promos come cheap. We could combat 1, medic1,medic2,medic3, leadership, Morale(+1movement) , march, flanking1, flanking2, mobility, sentry. Its not difficult to keep it alive.I make a medic 3 cavalry every game and I have never lost 1 so far.

Cabledawg: I remember placing oil in one of the coastal squares in the fat cross. Search for a coastal square without any revealed resource and you will find oil. It shouldn't be difficult to defend if we have technologically superior units.

Some idiot built the Great Library on the desert in front of London and now the enemy units are using it as a latrine. I'll try and put that one up.

.

.

GreyFox · Apr 12, 2007

I see London grows before the granary was started :nono:

should have stagnant the growth and delay it until granary is done before letting it grow. OCC is all abt MM'ing, we should make it a point to review the city pop distribution every turn.

I don't know the situation ... but might it not be better to get HE done (its only 4 turns if I remember) before producing the archers and triremes?

Otherwise a nice build up and a great turnset!

Didn't knew abt Alt-B ... :goodjob:

I hope the archer you lost is a new one instead of that super-defender.

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druidravi · Apr 12, 2007

I think we better go research along metal casting > machinery > harbor tech(+3 :health:

) > optics for caravels . So once we get liberalism we can take astronomy as free tech for frigates, and observatory for science. Somewhere after liberalism a research of guilds for grocer (+4 :health:

) , and calender in between could be done.

I agree with finishing he before more troops inspite of that dreaded GA points. What about music. We need it anyways for military tradition. And a Ga would give +3 :gold:

and +3

or maybe could be burned for some tech. He can give Military tradition if i remember. Anyone care to check the tech priority list to see whether it is possible for us.

ruff_hi · Apr 12, 2007

GreyFox said:
I see London grows before the granary was started should have stagnant the growth and delay it until granary is done before letting it grow. OCC is all abt MM'ing, we should make it a point to review the city pop distribution every turn.

I don't know the situation ... but might it not be better to get HE done (its only 4 turns if I remember) before producing the archers and triremes?

I hope the archer you lost is a new one instead of that super-defender.

Blah - I could be wrong with this, but I think you are thinking Civ 3 re granary. With Civ4, it has to go through 1 full cycle of growth no matter when you complete the granary for the granary to be completely full. Here is a really good post that goes into food and growth in detail. The conclusion is that the granary starts accumulating food the turn after it is completed and releases all of its food (max 50% of food required to grow) to the food queue at the beginning of the next growth cycle. The upshot - no point in delaying growth.

Anyway, it is only taking us about 4 turns to grow when max food so the max downside is 2 turns of growth that I lost.

HE can be done in 4 turns, but the current units only take 1 turn (max-hammers) or 1, sometimes 2 turns when max-growth. No real need for it yet.

The archer I lost was the second defender (got to about 25 XPs). Need to name units so that the log can keep track of individual units.

druidravi said:
I think we better go research along metal casting > machinery > harbor tech(+3 ) > optics for caravels . So once we get liberalism we can take astronomy as free tech for frigates, and observatory for science. Somewhere after liberalism a research of guilds for grocer (+4 ) , and calender in between could be done.

Already well into metal casting. Calender is a 1 or 2 turn tech. We are teching with gas when max-scientists.

Cabledawg · Apr 12, 2007

Lurker

We don't need to go to pikes though since we can build formation jumbos out of bat.

If youre getting Construction for Jumbos, youre wasting research. Jumbos will never be selected if you have monster Longbows.

Liberalism race should be in bag

MMM..Deity?....Ill eat my shorts if you get to Liberalism first.

GreyFox · Apr 12, 2007

Nope, granary start storing food (equal to food surplus) when it is built, and everytime the pop grows, the granary dump the amount of food stored to the city growth bar. However, granary only stores the maximum of half the growth bar, so building the granary anytime before the food bar reaches halfway point is a waste of surplus food. Completing the granary exactly when the food bar is half is the most optimal, completing it just after the city has grown wastes the most food.

Anyway, it is not important, since london grows from 13 to 14 in 7 turns. Maybe just slow down London's growth by 1 or 2 turn

(which may mean getting one more scientist one or two turn earlier and perhaps makes the difference between Cable eating his shorts or not :lol:

)

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negyvenketto · Apr 12, 2007

I named our super archer Robin Hood and upgraded to LB is it a :smoke:

?
His experience disappeared and won't get a promotion anytime soon.

Tech learned: Metal Casting, Machinery, Compass, Calendar we can start Optics (3) or Paper (3) (and many more, too long to list)
Built: Harbor, WB, Forge, units (LBs, Medic II Chariot)
Unit supply getting tough, hired mercants. Or reduce sci rate is better?

Settled GG, got an artist

didn't even started HE
He can give us Music if we want.

I haven't let London grow beyond health hat, but maybe a mistake since we have several 5 food tiles unworked and those could supply more scientists.
We haven't discussed it before. What do you think?

Military situation:

There was a quiet period in the 2nd half of my turnset, next player will see some action again. Note the first Knight.

Battle Stats:
Units victorious while attacking : 0
Units victorious while defending : 37
Units defeated while attacking : 0
Units defeated while defending : 2

Spoiler :

The save

ruff_hi · Apr 12, 2007

negyvenketto said:
I haven't let London grow beyond health hat, but maybe a mistake since we have several 5 food tiles unworked and those could supply more scientists.
We haven't discussed it before. What do you think?

I would let it grow. Being over the health cap means it takes 3 food instead of 2 food to support that extra population. Not a big issue and we can address the health cap with buildings, etc much quicker than growing.

negyvenketto said:
I named our super archer Robin Hood and upgraded to LB is it a ?
His experience disappeared and won't get a promotion anytime soon.

ruff_hi said:
GG - we need to merge our super-defender with a GG (or his experience re-sets to 10 after we upgrade him (its currently on 80-ish IIRC). I would suggest stepping him and the GG out of London, merge him and then giving him the double-experience promotion. The other two special ones (withdrawal and mobility) would be wasted on a defender).

YES - that is a smoke. As you said, he resets to 10XP.

However, good job on naming the units. You can see that the defensive tasks are being shared.

GreyFox · Apr 12, 2007

I don't think the upgrade is a serious smoke, he is practically promoted to everything we wanted him to be as a defender. And as the spam flooding my mailbox everyday seems to indicate, longer is better,

50_dollar_bag · Apr 12, 2007

Lurker's comment
Is your only source of oil coastal? that means no oil 'til plastics.

Good game, I used to do this in civ 3, but never Diety Always War.

druidravi · Apr 13, 2007

Ok whats over is over, but i would have preferred a warlord longbow , or a medic 3 unit. Still next gg could be attached to a fresh longbow, and a next a medic 3 unit chariot. Knights are never good news. Have we construction yet?. Those formation Jumbos will eat knights for breakfast

Looked at the save , we don't need to run at 100% research and use merchants. Run at 0 % research so that once optics is done we can mass upgrade tiremes to caravels. Use all specialists as scientists. We have enough longbows temparorily so we can afford to divert production to heoic epic.

Caravels cannot pillage.In case those japanese caravels come before we finish optics , just retreat our tiremes to city . After upgrading them to caravels we can fight back. Of course if they are providing cover to enemy galleys then take them out. We were not working the clam square. i think we need to just run those 5+ food squares plus the cow square . There is no need to run ivory camp ,horse pasture, or bronze,copper mines. We can work one engineer specialist so I suggest we do. We better run only engineer and scientist specialists from now on.
Next research could be optics(caravels)> construction(jumbos ,cats) and builds heroic , and more longbows till we get our magical 10 figure. Collosus if it exists could be built as well. It increases our total commerce by 4. With buearacracy +6 commerce due to collosus. Team needs to discuss whether we should risk researching engineering after construction. It gives us a lovely castle which increases our total city defence to +125%, and allows us pikes. On other hand it might slow us to liberalism risking losing it.

EDIT: Sweetachon you are on. If you are playing post a got-it.

jihe · Apr 14, 2007

Lurker's comment:
I think you should head for Education as soon as you get caravels. I recall Oxford to be massive for OCC.

GreyFox · Apr 14, 2007

Right abt OXford.

Sweetachon's 24hrs has long passed ... though I think druid you shouldn't have edited your previous post, I never knew something was added until I saw Jihe's post.

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