DU1 - "I didn't expect the Spanish inquisition!"

[Thyrwyn]

Turn 39 (2440 BC)
Warrior defeats (1.68/2): Barbarian Lion He heads home after playing footsie with a bear for several turns.
Madrid grows: 4 I re-arrange for commerce/production


Turn 41 (2360 BC)
Madrid finishes Warrior; continues Barracks
Contact made: Indian Empire

Turn 42 (2320 BC)
Tech learned: Writing
As Asoka is the founder of Hinduism, I refuse his Open Borders offer.
Tokugawa will not even listen to an Open Borders offer.

Turn 43 (2280 BC)
Research begun: Masonry We will learn this in 3 turns.
Madrid finishes Barracks; starts Worker

Turn 45 (2200 BC)
Learn Masonry; start Polyetheism We will learn it in 5

Turn 48 (2080 BC)
Madrid finishes Worker; starts Warrior

Turn 50 (2000 BC)
Madrid finishes Warrior; starts Scout
Learn Polytheism; start Monotheism We could learn this in 5; I will switch off of it before then.

Turn 51 (1960 BC)
Madrid finishes Scout; starts Settler
Contact made: Chinese Empire I sign Open Borders with Mao

Turn 54 (1840 BC)
Research begun: Animal Husbandry We are less than 40 beakers from Monotheism, so I make the switch.
Contact made: Russian Empire I sign Open Borders w/ Peter

Turn 57 (1720 BC)
Madrid finishes Settler; starts Warrior
Learn Animal Husbandry; start The Wheel
We have Horses nearby!


Turn 58 (1680 BC)
Madrid finishes Warrior; starts Library

Turn 59 (1640 BC)
Learn The Wheel; start Pottery

Turn 60 (1600 BC)
I left the settler for the next player and for discussion - I am more inclined to settle in place and grab the cows after expansion. But if the consensus is to settle one tile south, so be it.

The Worker on the Horses is roading since he cannot build a Pasture outside our borders. the Worker NE of Madrid should move SW of madrid and start roading towards the new city. The Warrior east of the Settler was stationed on top of the hill fog-busting; I would move him back there when the Warrior NE of the Settler gets there to defend the city. I would have our Workers concentrate on improving our new city and connecting our already improved resources to our Madrid.

Here is what our Scout is finding in the Northwest:

 

[Grogs]

- Got it. It's been a long day though (up since 2 this morning) so I'm going to sleep on it before I start so I don't make any careless mistakes. I like to limit my mistakes to the careful kind.

- Research was faster than I thought. I had counted 21 turns just to reach Monotheism. Probably because the displayed value is higher before you've discovered the prerequisite tech.

- Toku almost never opens borders or trades techs with anyone. His favorite civic is mercantilism if that tells you anything. Once we've gotten Alphabet, we may be able to gift him a tech or two to soften him up, but we may end up destroying him as an atheist non-believer.

- Any idea where the other civs are located? I'm getting the idea that we're on a big peninsula of sorts in the NE part of the pangea.

- Settling in place looks good to me. We'll have to modify our dotmaps, but those are like military plans: they never survive first contact. Getting a 2nd city up now lets us take some of the burden for producing everything off of Madrid and gives us a better military unit than warriors.

- Lots of interesting possibilities for cities, even up in the tundra to the north.

- From reviewing some of my previous noble games, Judaism is typically founded ~1800-2600 BC, so it will probably get discovered on my set of turns. The Oracle tends to come in around 700 BC-early AD's. I'm planning to get started on it, and maybe finish depending on when Judaism is founded.

- I'd also like to get one more city settled during my 20 since I think we're falling a little behind in that department. Priorities and events beyond my control will dictate though.

 

[Meatbuster]

Good turns, Thyrwyn...

I agree with the new city placement plans...

BTW Madrid is stagnant atm. Maybe feed it now since we can afford the extra citizens?

EDIT: As for the rest of our map (other than near Toku...) - pink dot is Madrid
For the yellow dot, maybe--maybe we should settle on top of the silk to get less unworkable tiles around that area...

EDIT 2: Dotmap removed from my total attachments due to space.

 

[Dimy]

I really think we should build the 2nd city near the elephants, we will loose that spot for sure to Tokugawa if we don't get there first. The Cows would be a good 3rd city.

 

[Drugged_Unholy]

I agree, Ivory is far too important. If Japan gets it they'll be a very tough opponent. Cows can wait.

 

[Thyrwyn]

I would settle on the Ivory on the Coast: we still get the resource; it is much easier to defend; and we reduce overlap with the city to the east. If we want to settle there now, we had better get some more units over there. That city will be very hard to defend and will pressure Toku to declare sooner, rather than later.

I would prefer to get the Horses online so we can make some better units. My vote is settle in place, build another settler in Madrid to claim the Ivory. this will take about 12 turns (or less, see below)

I do not think that there is anything to be gained by growing Madrid - not until we get cottages built on those non-river grasslands. There are no tiles we could work that will make up for the income/production we would lose while growing. If we farmed the two river grasslands near Madrid, we could make growth worthwhile. Those tiles would then produce 3 food each allowing us to eventually get back to working the gold hill we would have to give up to grow plus a cottaged grassland which will eventually produce enough comerce to make it worthwhile. This would require chopping those two forests, which could help get a Settler or two out of Madrid while we farm the grass.

Those two Gold hills provide 75% of our production and 60% of our commerce; until we get some other cities that can take up the slack, I do not think we can afford to stop working those two tiles

Here is my proposal for settling the northwest (this assumes settling on the coastal Ivory and on the spot where the settler is now):

 

[Grogs]

Here are my turns. Good news/bad news sort of thing:

Here's the turnlog:

Turn 60, 1600 BC (0): Barcelona founded in place. I start it producing an obelisk so that it can expand and pick up the cow, fish, and banana tiles. Science still set @ 100% (no additional maintenance costs for Barcelona.) Move fortified warrior West of Barcelona onto jungle hill for enhanced visibility. Reassign tiles in Madrid, swapping farmed plains for farmed grassland. Set Madrid to build settler next. Library is @ 14/90 hammers. Change research to Iron Working. We'll need pottery eventually, but I think finding the iron is more important.

Turn 61, 1560 BC (1): Human barbs are here. Our scout spots the first human barb near the tundra. I'll keep an eye on him w/ our scout and see if he'll move towards our warrior nearby. Worker in Madrid moves onto forest for an Oracle-forest chop. Road on horse tile is completed.

IBT: Asoka adopts slavery.

Turn 62, 1520 BC (2): Barb warrior seems to be following our scout. I'll kite him out into the western desert then. Begin pasture on horses by Barcelona.

Turn 63, 1480 BC (3): That's one big, nasty piece of desert out there to the west. Oracle assigned to Madrid to receive forest-chop hammers. We've got a barb city SE of Madrid. That makes me nervous. I'm going to pick up archery in case we get a couple of barb archers heading our way.

Turn 64, 1440 BC (4): Forest cleared, Oracle is now at 38/150 -> Back to settler. Our scout has reached the edge of the western part of the desert. There's stone there, but the terrain is awful and it's a loong way from Madrid.

Turn 65, 1400 BC (5): Madrid worker moves onto next forest. Horse pasture is complete. No activity from barb city.

Turn 66, 1360 BC (6): Archery complete -> IW in 4. Worker in Madrid begins Oracle-Forest chop. Barcelona worker moves towards 2nd forest. Madrid begins archer. No sign of the human barb. I don't know where he went.

Turn 67, 1320 BC (7): We meet a Roman scout. Julius immediately wants OB, and I agree. He has no religion at this time. Toku has an axe-warrior-settler combo, probably moving towards the ivory. That's bad for several reasons. Also, it looks like Mao's warrior is moving towards the barb city. He can keep them quiet for a little while. Madrid to Oracle to receive forest chop

Turn 68, 1280 BC (8): Toku settles Tokyo in place. This is a good news/bad news thing. Since he won't allow open borders with anyone, nobody else will be able to settle on our peninsula unless they come by ship, but we won't be able to reach the rest of the world either until we build galleys. Our scout got booted before I could get him south of Japanese lands, so I'm going to send him into the eastern peninsula. Worker finishes Oracle chop -> we're at 76/150, over halfway there. 2nd worker begins forest chop. Madrid back to archer.



Turn 69, 1240 BC (9): We've got another barb city in the NW. Worker in Madrid moves to do 4th (and final) Oracle-Forest chop. Barcelona completes obelisk -> work boat.

Turn 70, 1200 BC (10): Iron Working complete! -> Pottery in 3. We have iron, not only within our cultural boundaries, but within the fat cross of Madrid! There's another iron tile in the middle of the western desert. Forest chop to Madrid towards The Oracle - 106/150, back to archer (1)

 

[Grogs]

Turn 71, 1160 BC (11): Madrid completes archer, back on Oracle to receive next chop. Worker begins work on Madrid-Barcelona expressway.

Turn 72, 1120 BC (12): Worker finishes forest chop. Oracle now at 146/150.

Turn 73, 1080 BC (13): Judaism founded! Finally! Pottery complete, research set to Monotheism in 1. Our worker begins iron mine. I think I could switch to the Oracle now, but I'm not 100% sure. Going to nail Mono, then switch. All quiet on the barbarian fron so far.

IBT: Asoka adopts Organized religion. Guess we know who got Monotheism. Not a surprise really.

Turn 74, 1040 BC (14): Madrid set to Oracle in 1. Monotheism complete, Sailing in 4. Madrid-Barcelona highway complete.

Turn 75, 1000 BC (15): Oracle complete! Christianity founded in Barcelona. We're one step of the way there now. We convert to Christianity. Our Christian missionary spreads the good news to Madrid. I'm going to hold off on the switch to O.R./Theocracy until I'm actually building some military/buildings. Our scout moves onto a forest-hill and finds a nasty surprise. I give him the Woodland I promotion, but I doubt he can win this fight. Move worker to forest by Barcelona so I can chop-rush a barracks there.



IBT: The borders of Madrid & Barcelona expand. Or scout gets attacked and dies.

Turn 76, 975 BC (16): I've moved our 2 warriors in the west to hill/forests where they can keep an eye on the western barb city. Iron mine complete. Worker begins chopping forest for Barcelona. Iron mine complete. Rearrange tiles in Madrid -> Settler in 3. I'm moving our archer out of the city for barb interception purposes. As soon as the settler completes, we can build another, or a chariot.

Turn 77, 950 BC (17): Barcelona completes workboat -> barracks. Worker begins road to connect iron to Madrid. Sailing complete, setting research to Alphabet (12) for technology trading. We now have trade routes with Mao and Tokugowa, thanks to Sailing. Since Barcelona is Christian (only) there's a good chance it will spread to them through trade routes. Archer continues towards Khazak (barb city to SE.) Switch to Organized Religion since Barcelona is building a barracks. It costs us 2gpt in civics, so I have to drop science to 90% (writing in 14.)

Turn 78, 925 BC (18): Fishing boat works fish; Swap Barcelona over so that it's working fish/horses, putting it at +5 fpt. Worker finishes forest chop, barracks due in 3. Worker finishes mining iron tile.

Turn 79, 900 BC (19): Our archer is now on the jungle/hill north of Khazak. Our worker moves to build 2nd section of road to bring iron into Madrid. Settler completes in Madrid. Madrid begins work on chariot. Worker moves over to cow to begin pasture.

Here's our area in 900 BC:

Eastern peninsula




Western border areas

 

[Dimy]

Now we have a religion I think we should, according the rules of this SG, declare war on a heathen civ. Now...does this have to be a civ with a state religion? Or can this be an atheist civ as well? I suggest we take on Tokugawa, we gotta get those Elephants before he can start building Elephant Archers. Besides... Kyoto seems to be on a bottleneck, so is strategically a great city to have. Now we have Iron we can start pumping out Swordsmen in Madrid. We don't really need more settlers at the moment, we can capture 2 barb cities and at least 2 Japanese cities!

 

[Grogs]

Notes for the next player:

- I haven't hit enter on 900 BC yet. The settler is still standing in Madrid ready to go. I didn't want to move him on my last turn, so you can decide where you want to move him. I also haven't given the archer by Khazak any promotions. Guerilla I is probably the best choice, but I'll leave it up to you.

- With a cow and fish, Barcelona is going to have a lot of extra food. We're in slavery, so we can pop-rush there once it's grown a few more times. If we mine a hill, I think Barcelona will make a good military production center (barracks will finish in 2 turns.)

- We can rearrange the tiles in Madrid from one of the gold mines to the farmed grassland, and we'll start growing (+3 fpt) again. It won't slow research too much (raises aplhabet from 11 to 14 turns.) There's no reason not to work both golds while we're building workers/settlers though.

- I recommend we found the next city on the ivory tile (on the edge of the desert.) It will give us access to the ivory, plus put the iron and horses there in our cultural borders once we expand. It's a pretty poor city location (5 pure desert tiles), but it will deny Toku access to both the iron and the horses.

- I recommend we capture Khazak (SE barb city) once it reaches size 2. The location isn't perfect, but I think it's ok, and it keeps us from having to build a settler. Iron should be online next turn, so you can build a couple of swords to grab it. I don't like the location of the other barb city at all. I would raze that one.

- Now that we have our religion, I think the 2 things we need most are troops and workers. We may want to consider building a galley also so that we can send a couple of missionaries to Russia/Rome to spread the good news. Asoka clearly has the advantage here, and it's just a matter of time until his heathen faith starts spreading around.

Here's the save:

View attachment 107778

 

[Thyrwyn]

Great turns; that Iron on the grasslands is huge for Madrid. I think Toku is the only civ we can reasonably reach, isn't he? Phony wars seem antithetical to the Inquisitions intent. If he isn't willing to let our enlightened Missionaries in willingly, then we will have to force them in.

He had his chance. . . . I even asked nicely

 

[Drugged_Unholy]

As Toku is blocking us off from the rest of the pangea we'll have to go to war against him sometime. There are pros and cons of doing it now.

Pros:

- If we are quick enough we can pillage his ivory/stop him connecting it, combined with pillaging his other resources this could stop him building up any forces

- his cities will have less culture, therefore making the war easier

- he will focus on defending himself to the detriment of other objectives.

- we can get some decent veterens

- victory brings us closer to domination

- we have the element of surprise - Nobody Expects the Spanish Inquisition!

Cons:

- We don't have enough troops or cities for a long (serious) war yet
- or the infrastructure to absorb the maintenence of his cities.
- we might lose, which would end the chances of victory

 

[Grogs]

- My biggest fear with Toku is that one of his cities will pick up Christianity *and* being the anti-social guy he is, he still refuses to give us open borders. That would make our lives very difficult.

- I don't think we should declare on Asoka right now. It will take forever to get enough galleys together to mount an invasion force right now. Also, when you declare on an AI, they tend to start spamming troops. That will make it much more difficult to conquer him once we actually get there. Much better to let him cruise along in blissful ignorance until the day the Spanish Inquisition comes knocking at his door.

- Toku doesn't appear to have iron or horses. That's a good thing, but since he has copper, he'll build axes and spears instead of swords. A combat 2 axe will mow down our swordsmen like grass, so we'll need some axes of our own when we go knocking on his door. We also need to get some axemen defenders in Barcelona/3rd city, or he'll be able to capture them easily. He needs construction to build war elephants, and I'd be surprised if he's anywhere near that yet. Alphabet will let us see for sure though.

- I'd like to deal with the barb threat before we go knocking down Toku. Once we capture Khazak and put an axe on that peninsula, we can focus all of our attention to the West.

Here's my updated dotmap of the West:



Black and Yellow lines represent current 'fat crosses' for existing cities.

Red is where I propose we settle the next city.

No rush on blue or green, but I think they'll make pretty decent cities.

I typically build to about 5 cities on Noble before the bottom starts to drop out of my research budget. More than that and I'm running 40% or less science. Since we've got more commerce than is probably typical for this stage of the game, we can probably go to 6 (our 3 + barb city + 2 of Toku's) before the bottom starts to fall out. After that, we'll probably start to need cottages/courthouses to sustain.

EDIT: One thing I forgot to mention in my turnset - The library was at 14/90 hammers when I started and I backburnered it. At the end of my turns, after building the Oracle, an archer, and a settler, it was still at 14/90. Whatever the decay rate on hammers is, it either isn't much or doesn't kick in for a long time.

 

[Meatbuster]

I got it and will be playing shortly.

As for war, I don't think I want to do that on my turns...

 

[Meatbuster]

Playing and posting at the same time...

Turn 80: 900BC
Renamed leader to "DU1 - Spanish Inquisition"
I move settler to Red Dot on latest dotmap.
I don't promote archer yet as he has full life and could use that promotion to heal. Fortified.

Turn 81: 875BC
Worker starts on pasture + road.
Settler continues trip.

Turn 82: 850BC
Barcelona finishes barracks, starts on axe.
Madrid switches to food so it could grow again.
Worker builds another farm on one of the plains next to the river (NW of city).

 

[Meatbuster]

Turn 83: 825BC
Madrid finished chariot, builds library as queued... on second thought I'll build another axe instead, library queued.
Move chariot to position of archer near barb city.
Settler founds Seville on Red Dot (on top of the ivory). Work starts on obelisk. One of our warriors moves in to protect.
We are now at -1gpt at 90% research.

 

[Meatbuster]

Turn 86: 750BC
Warrior with woodsman moves to northern barb city to investigate. Unfortunately it seems there are no woods next to city. Fortify on forest to draw attackers.
Chariot attacks barb city at 4.4 vs 3.3 odds.
WTF! Enemy warrior is down to 0.2 power but Chariot ESCAPES with 0.6 power.
-end of turn-

 

[Meatbuster]

Turn 87: 725BC
Terrible news: Christianity spreads in Kyoto
Toku should covert during his turn. Crap. Time for galleys?
Axe finishes in Madrid (shown onscreen)

EDIT: Oh wait, maybe he'll open his borders next turn.
(turn continues)

 

[Meatbuster]

Turn 87 continued
Chariot picks up combat 2 and heals.
Madrid axeman left unpromoted, moving to Khazaak which has just reached size 2.

Turn 88 700BC
As expected, Toku converts. However, Open Borders is still denied. I hope that our relations would improve shortly so he will grant.
Barcelona finishes Axe, starts on Granary. Axe fortifies.
Worker starts on another farm on a plains north of Madrid.
I gift him one of our Gold resources to try and open him up.

Turn 89 675BC
Worker near Barcelona moves to connect rice via roads.

Turn 90 650BC
80% research, 0 gold, 0 gpt. I reconfigure madrid (now on pop 5) to work the gold so now +2gpt +1fpt.
Worker starts another farm on madrid this time on grass.

 

[Meatbuster]

Turn 91 625 BC
Barcelona finishes granary, starts on swordie.
Axe attacks Khazak with 5.0 vs 2.2 odds, escapes with 2.4 power, pick up city raider 1 (from the promotion which was saved) to get him up to 3.7 power.'
Rice now connected. Worker moves to create a mine on right side of Seville.

Turn 92 600BC
Axe attacks Khazak with 3.7 vs 1.9 odds, escapes with 0.9 power. Gained another promotion which I do not use yet. Khazak is ours, gaining 69 gold. At 80% research we are now at -1gpt.

Turn 93 575BC
Khazak renamed as Santiago in honor of Her Majesty.
Alphabet finishes research. I start on Compass as a trading tool and to build our harbors as well. We're expansive so harbors will get us more cash with 1/2 build cost.
Axeman pauses to heal in Santiago (formerly Khazak). Archer moves into city as well.
Chariot moves to Seville.

I'm taking a break for now. I'd like a vote now. What should we do with Toku? He still isn't up for Open Borders. Also should we keep the northern barb city?

Map of known Spanish world: