Dynamic City Naming

[lindsay40k]

Is this the place to report oddities in the city names? Ezana of Axum (Ethiopia) just put down Roha as his capital. Roha is a small town in India - EDIT: answered below

Also, the Iroquois seem to keep founding Salamanca as their Capital, regardless of leader. Surely Buffalo Creek?

 

[ales_]

Is this the place to report oddities in the city names? Ezana of Axum (Ethiopia) just put down Roha as his capital.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lalibela

 

[Xyth]

Is this the place to report oddities in the city names? Ezana of Axum (Ethiopia) just put down Roha as his capital. Roha is a small town in India - EDIT: answered below

Looks like I neglected to flag the capitals for the Ethiopian leaders correctly. Ezana should have Aksum, Lalibela should have Roha, and Selassie should have Addis Ababa. At the moment it's a (weighted) random choice between the 3 cities. Fixed for 1.20.

Also, the Iroquois seem to keep founding Salamanca as their Capital, regardless of leader. Surely Buffalo Creek?

The Iroquois are one of the civilizations I've not applied dynamic city naming to yet. I think their list might be straight out of Civ3, basically unchanged. If someone wants to improve it or make a better one, feel free! They're not a civilization I know a lot about.

 

[lindsay40k]

My previous googling didn't bring up Salamanca, NY. The city names make sense to me now

 

[Nightstar]

In my current 1.19 game (save attached in this post), Rome and Syracusa were captured by the raging barbarians. Caesar then went on to found two new cities with the same names, even though the first two were still in existence. (And the first Rome was later captured and liberated by the French, giving Caesar two cities with the same name!)

 

[Xyth]

In my current 1.19 game (save attached in this post), Rome and Syracusa were captured by the raging barbarians. Caesar then went on to found two new cities with the same names, even though the first two were still in existence. (And the first Rome was later captured and liberated by the French, giving Caesar two cities with the same name!)

Hmm, sound like I've neglected to check barbarian cities when looking to see if a name is in use already. Investigating.

 

[Absolution]

I was taking a look at the XMLs and found this:

<CityName>Camulodunon</CityName>
			<Civilizations>
				<Civilization>
					<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_CELT</CivilizationType>
					<CivilizationCityName>Camulodunon</CivilizationCityName>
					<bCivilizationCapital>1</bCivilizationCapital>
					<iCivilizationPriority>2</iCivilizationPriority>
				</Civilization>
				<Civilization>
					<CivilizationType>CIVILIZATION_ENGLAND</CivilizationType>
					<CivilizationCityName>Colchester</CivilizationCityName>
					<bCivilizationCapital>1</bCivilizationCapital>
					<iCivilizationPriority>3</iCivilizationPriority>

I understood that it mean that Camulodunon can not be found if Colchester already exists.
But does it mean that the name is switched when England captures Camulodunon?

 

[Xyth]

Does it mean that Camulodunon can not be found if Colchester already exists, even though they have a different name?
And does it mean that the name is switched when England captures Camulodunon?

The Celts cannot found Camulodunon if the English have already founded Colchester, and vice versa. If the Celts are lead by Boudica, she will found Camulodunon as her capital. Colchester is not meant to be flagged as a potential capital for England, I'll fix that.

Camulodunon won't automatically be renamed Colchester if the English capture it from the Celts (or vice versa), but that's something I might add in the future.

 

[lindsay40k]

The Celts cannot found Camulodunon if the English have already founded Colchester, and vice versa. If the Celts are lead by Boudica, she will found Camulodunon as her capital. Colchester is not meant to be flagged as a potential capital for England, I'll fix that.

Camulodunon won't automatically be renamed Colchester if the English capture it from the Celts (or vice versa), but that's something I might add in the future.

I'd love to see this and for it to include Londinium/London, Jorvik/York, Tenochtitlan/Mexico City, Khanbalik/Beijing, Waset/Thebes, etc.

It's also apply to, say, Edo/Tokyo, if you had different Japanese factions, right? That'd add interest to civil war type scenarios and situations, I think

What about expanding this to make cities automatically rename to how they are known in the mother tongue of a conquering nation? If the French capture Londinium from Rome, they'd rename it Londres; then when the Polish grab it, it's Londyn. Finally, the Celts claim the city, and it is henceforth known as Lunnainn

 

[ales_]

What about expanding this to make cities automatically rename to how they are known in the mother tongue of a conquering nation?

I think this is a good idea but translating each city of each civililization in 50 other languages is a very difficult task.

 

[Xyth]

I'd love to see this and for it to include Londinium/London, Jorvik/York, Tenochtitlan/Mexico City, Khanbalik/Beijing, Waset/Thebes, etc.

Development of 1.20 is dragging on far longer than I ever intended but I'll have a look and see how complicated it would be to code. It shouldn't be too bad given the really hard part - the database structure - is already up and running. Otherwise, 1.21.

It's also apply to, say, Edo/Tokyo, if you had different Japanese factions, right? That'd add interest to civil war type scenarios and situations, I think

Leader naming takes priority over civilization naming when founding cities; assuming I don't have to do anything too different when coding it this would probably happen automatically in such a situation. Assuming Edo/Tokyo is in the database appropriately of course.

What about expanding this to make cities automatically rename to how they are known in the mother tongue of a conquering nation? If the French capture Londinium from Rome, they'd rename it Londres; then when the Polish grab it, it's Londyn. Finally, the Celts claim the city, and it is henceforth known as Lunnainn

I think this is a good idea but translating each city of each civililization in 50 other languages is a very difficult task.

I don't think it's worth doing for translation purposes, but certainly for civs that are geographically close, invaded, or had some other notable connection. So in the case of London, I reckon it should rename for the Celts, Romans, Scandinavians (assuming they had/have a different name, anyone know?), and perhaps the French.

 

[Xyth]

Actually it was pretty straightforward, hardest part was reacquainting myself with the code. I still need to add a message to alert players about the renaming and I need to figure out if I can avoid cities being renamed when razed rather than kept. Other than that, done.

Next step is to flesh out the database more, feel free to contribute suggestions.

 

[ales_]

So in the case of London, I reckon it should rename for the Scandinavians (assuming they had/have a different name, anyone know?).

A short research showed that it's Lundúnaborg.

 

[lindsay40k]

Fair point about doing it for every city for everybody being a bit surplus to requirements. That said, how's about making all old World civs with a history of transatlantic imperialism rename New World cities to colonial equivalents upon capture? So, say, regardless of who conquers Cahokia, as long as they had a New World colony IRL, it becomes St. Louis?

 

[Absolution]

I started working on the Hebrew citylist.
I divide it like this:
- Pre-monarchic cities (circa Iron Age I)
- Monarchic cities (circa Iron Age II)
- Hashmonean/Herodian cities (Classical era)
- Zionist cities (Industrial/modern era)

The thing is that there are several cities which had been founded during the pre-monarchic period (Joshua/Judges), but rose to prominence in the monarchic period.
Should I put them in the pre-monarchic anyway?

And in every period, should I list the cities by importance, or by oldness?


BTW, I don't know when I will finish it, and it might be completed only for 1.21.

 

[Xyth]

Fair point about doing it for every city for everybody being a bit surplus to requirements. That said, how's about making all old World civs with a history of transatlantic imperialism rename New World cities to colonial equivalents upon capture? So, say, regardless of who conquers Cahokia, as long as they had a New World colony IRL, it becomes St. Louis?

Yeah, stuff like that can be done easily enough.

I started working on the Hebrew citylist.
I divide it like this:
- Pre-monarchic cities (circa Iron Age I)
- Monarchic cities (circa Iron Age II)
- Hashmonean/Herodian cities (Classical era)
- Zionist cities (Industrial/modern era)

Sounds great.

The thing is that there are several cities which had been founded during the pre-monarchic period (Joshua/Judges), but rose to prominence in the monarchic period.
Should I put them in the pre-monarchic anyway?

And in every period, should I list the cities in an by importance, or by oldness?

With dynamic city naming's priority system we can account for both age and importance. What I suggest you do is list such cities multiple times - once in each of your defined eras where the city existed or was relevant. Put (Low), (Medium), or (High) after each entry to indicate how important the city was for that era.

For example, I imagine Jericho would probably appear in your pre-monarchic list as high priority, medium priority in your Monarchic and Hasmonean/Herodian lists, and either low priority or not appear at all in the Zionist list.

I can then use that information to assign priorities and build a dynamic citylist for Israel.

BTW, I don't know when I will finish it, and it might be completed only for 1.21.

Not a problem.

 

[Absolution]

For example, I imagine Jericho would probably appear in your pre-monarchic list as high priority, medium priority in your Monarchic and Hasmonean/Herodian lists, and either low priority or not appear at all in the Zionist list.

I can then use that information to assign priorities and build a dynamic citylist for Israel.

I'll add the priorities later.
But when I make the pre-monarchic list, should I put Jeriho at the top of the list, or should I put the most ancient cities at the top of the list?

Because I saw that you put Eridu (one of the world's earliest cities) first in the Sumerian citylist.

 

[Xyth]

I'll add the priorities later.
But when I make the pre-monarchic list, should I put Jeriho at the top of the list, or should I put the most ancient cities at the top of the list?

Because I saw that you put Eridu (one of the world's earliest cities) first in the Sumerian citylist.

Cities of the same priority are selected randomly. So although Eridu is at the top of that particular list (in CIV4CityListInfos.xml), the cities in that section (all priority 3 for Sumer) can be chosen in any order. My advice is to sort cities into their eras, and then rank them by importance within that era.

 

[Nightstar]

I just noticed that the automatic city renaming has an... unaesthetic effect in the post-game event history: Most of the AI-founded cities end up listed twice, first as the default city name, and then again as whatever they were renamed to (often the same name).

 

[Xyth]

I just noticed that the automatic city renaming has an... unaesthetic effect in the post-game event history: Most of the AI-founded cities end up listed twice, first as the default city name, and then again as whatever they were renamed to (often the same name).

Hmm. I have no idea if that screen is moddable or not. Will investigate.