Early build order, first ~40 turns from 4000BC?

[Pyrrhos]

Very interesting thread, thanks for posting the link Aabraxan!

Fooling around with various starting strategies, I've come to the conclusion that a variant of that works best for me:

Capital: Warior - worker - warrior - warrior - settler - granary - settler -settler - barracks - settler (etc)

2 sfpt & 2 shpt towns: Warrior - worker - settler (join one worker with as few turns remaining as possible) - worker - repeat cycle

2 sfpt & 1 shpt towns: Worker - settler (join one worker with as few turns remaining as possible) - worker - repeat cycle

I used normal, Archi, no barbs @ emperor and was in republic by 1150BC with 12 towns, pop 20, 7 workers, 8 warriors, 2 barracks, 1 granary, 37 sfpt, 28 shpt (net), 38 beakers. BW in four turns & +7gpt.

If anyone wants to try and report on progress, I'd be only too happy as my early game sux.

 

[Chamnix]

Fooling around with various starting strategies, I've come to the conclusion that a variant of that works best for me:

2 sfpt & 2 shpt towns: Warrior - worker - settler (join one worker with as few turns remaining as possible) - worker - repeat cycle

2 sfpt & 1 shpt towns: Worker - settler (join one worker with as few turns remaining as possible) - worker - repeat cycle

These can't possibly be good - the worker costs 1 pop but is then readded, so that is a wash, but as far as I can tell you are spending 10 shields to have a worker for 10-20 turns. In addition, you are deliberately keeping your cities at size 1 instead of size 2, and they should get more commerce and shields at size 2.

With that much food, you can definitely get a stronger setup by 1150 BC. I'll try it later if nobody beats me to it...

 

[MAS]

Pyrrhos, your test game in post #21 includes a cow close to the start, thats different than a 2 sfpt start.

 

[Theov]

Very interesting thread, thanks for posting the link Aabraxan!

Fooling around with various starting strategies, I've come to the conclusion that a variant of that works best for me:

Capital: Warior - worker - warrior - warrior - settler - granary - settler -settler - barracks - settler (etc)

2 sfpt & 2 shpt towns: Warrior - worker - settler (join one worker with as few turns remaining as possible) - worker - repeat cycle

2 sfpt & 1 shpt towns: Worker - settler (join one worker with as few turns remaining as possible) - worker - repeat cycle

I used normal, Archi, no barbs @ emperor and was in republic by 1150BC with 12 towns, pop 20, 7 workers, 8 warriors, 2 barracks, 1 granary, 37 sfpt, 28 shpt (net), 38 beakers. BW in four turns & +7gpt.

If anyone wants to try and report on progress, I'd be only too happy as my early game sux.

That's a sexy island you got there. is that randomly generated?

 

[Pyrrhos]

I'd have said the same a week ago, but...

The loss of rejoining the worker is only 10 shields. The gains are a new town 10 turns earlier than would otherwise have been possible plus keeping the pop low enough so I don't have to use the lux slider more than 10 - 20% and then for only a turn or so. That means I don't have to compromise research. (On your test, I actually beat the Zulus to Alphabet, Writing, Philosophy and CoL. In trade I got amongst other things IW, so even tho the Zulus would have more units, at least I wouldn't have had to face his swordsmen with nobbut warriors and a few spears. I even got a GSL! )

The alternatives to building the workers would be reg warriors, barracks and granaries and I'd definitely would have had to use the slider as most towns would have grown to pop 4 before completing the granary - unless I pop-rushed of course, losing 20 food instead of 10 shields. I would have had to go to 20-40% on the lux slider and pay upkeep & maintenance. That would have meant researching CoL in 50 instead of 20 turns...

 

[Pyrrhos]

Pyrrhos, your test game in post #21 includes a cow close to the start, thats different than a 2 sfpt start.

Available to the capital after 10 turns and used almost exclusively by it. Check post #21 again!

 

[Pyrrhos]

That's a sexy island you got there. is that randomly generated?

Yes. (If it hadn't been, I'd probably have added a ton of luxes and resourses. ) No reason why you couldn't play the game thru from the start save provided if you'd want to.

 

[Chamnix]

The loss of rejoining the worker is only 10 shields. The gains are a new town 10 turns earlier than would otherwise have been possible plus keeping the pop low enough so I don't have to use the lux slider more than 10 - 20% and then for only a turn or so.

You don't get a town 10 turns earlier. Instead of waiting for 20 turns for the town to grow from size 1 to size 3, you are building a worker after 10 turns, then joining the worker 10 turns later as the city grows back to size 2 to finish the settler the same 20 turns after the cycle began. You are paying 10 shields to rent a worker for 10 turns.

At size 2, you don't need the luxury slider if you have 1 MP (and each city can build its own as the first item). In any case, as long as you are building roads, you shouldn't fear the luxury slider even if you don't have MPs. For example, consider Pompeii. At size 1, the city center produces 2 commerce and it probably works a river BG for 1 more commerce. You gain 3 beakers (or gold) per turn (before corruption). Now let it grow to size 2 - the second citizen works a roaded river tile adding 2 commerce for 5 total. To keep the second citizen happy, luxuries must be raised to 20%, but you still have 4 commerce left over to spend on science. 80% science with 2 citizens can be better than 100% science with 1 citizen. I often reach 40-50% with my luxury slider in the early game.

You get in trouble if you grow some areas of your empire faster than others, or if you try to grow corrupt towns too big, and you have to adjust for some towns being in higher income locations than others, but as a general rule, having an extra citizen in almost always a good thing.

 

[Pyrrhos]

You don't get a town 10 turns earlier. Instead of waiting for 20 turns for the town to grow from size 1 to size 3, you are building a worker after 10 turns, then joining the worker 10 turns later as the city grows back to size 2 to finish the settler the same 20 turns after the cycle began. You are paying 10 shields to rent a worker for 10 turns.

I understand what you're saying, but the beauty of it is you get some tiles improved from the moment the worker is built until it rejoins ten turns later! Those turns can be speant roading to the next city location shaving two turns off as against walking unroaded terrain. Or you could put up a road+mine, or chop a wood and road, or making a couple of irrigations. Or even take a worker from another town should this one be gainfully employed elsewhere.

Just try it!

 

[Aabraxan]

I usually try to let me capitol grow to size 4 before popping a settler (thus dropping it to size 2), or at least pop it at size 3, but very close to growth to size 4. I haven't done a whole lot of math on this, but it always feels like dropping the capitol to size 1 slows growth a whole lot more. Is this a mistake?

And you're very welcome. I remember following that thread. It was an interesting read.

 

[Pyrrhos]

I often reach 40-50% with my luxury slider in the early game.

That's nice, but I had it at 70-90% all the time, usually @ 90%. That does make a difference as at 40-50%, Writing, CoL & Phil are researced in 50 turns (you might as well set it to 10% and save the dosh). At 70-90%, these techs take ~60-70 turns to research so before you're even halfway through CoL, I'm in Republic.

Try it!

 

[Aabraxan]

. . . . At 70-90%, these techs take ~60-70 turns to research so before you're even halfway through CoL, I'm in Republic.

What version are you playing? Even with Lone Scientist, no tech should take more than 50 turns, at least not in C3C.

 

[Theov]

Yes. (If it hadn't been, I'd probably have added a ton of luxes and resourses. ) No reason why you couldn't play the game thru from the start save provided if you'd want to.

Sure, what's the difficulty?
..
Although... there's no lux and does it stop there in the North??

 

[Pyrrhos]

I usually try to let me capitol grow to size 4 before popping a settler (thus dropping it to size 2), or at least pop it at size 3, but very close to growth to size 4. I haven't done a whole lot of math on this, but it always feels like dropping the capitol to size 1 slows growth a whole lot more. Is this a mistake?

I used to think it was a mistake to pop settlers unless your town was pop 6...

I really dunno, I'd imagine if you look at it from the point of view of the capital alone, you're absolutely correct. But I guess that I f you think of it as the capital is suddenly in two places, one building a new settler, the other a warrior and then a settler to help the capital out?

And you're very welcome. I remember following that thread. It was an interesting read.

It certainly was! Inspiring too!

 

[Pyrrhos]

What version are you playing? Even with Lone Scientist, no tech should take more than 50 turns, at least not in C3C.

1.22

I meant in toto. Writing and CoL would be about 21-24 each and Phil was 12.

 

[Pyrrhos]

Sure, what's the difficulty?
..
Although... there's no lux and does it stop there in the North??

Emperor, yes, and yes.

Good luck!

 

[Chamnix]

1150 BC:



10 cities
22 citizens
1 settler
17 workers
2 granaries
3 barracks

 

[Aabraxan]

I meant in toto. Writing and CoL would be about 21-24 each and Phil was 12.

Ah, now I see what you mean.

 

[MAS]

I've got:

13 towns
9 workers
5 warriors
1 settler (meant for boarding to be build galley to settle other island)
1 granary
24 population
Map making in 1

My build order for capital:
Warrior - worker - warrior - granary, settler x11
3 settlers build in other cities.

Didn't do any joining.

I may do an other try.

 

[MAS]

in my second attempt I've got:

13 towns (completed a bit earlier than before)
11 workers
6 warriors
1 settler
1 curragh
1 granary
25 pop
map making in 1

Capital build order:
warrior - worker - granary - warrior - settler x4 - worker x2 - settler x6
I MM a bit differently and moved my workers around the empire differently.