Early game build order

[59saintdane]

Usually my first three builds are a scout, monument, and shrine, in that order. I think that's generally a pretty good build order, but I'm trying to figure out what best to build after that. I used to build a granary and then something else like a worker or library, but recently I've been experimenting with building two settlers back-to-back right after the shrine. The reason for this is that getting 2nd and 3rd city up earlier gives them more time to grow, build buildings, expand their borders and improve their tiles, which is going to turn into a lot of extra citizens and bpt by the end of the game--well worth the delay in capital growth and development imo. What are your thoughts on this, or do you have an entirely different 4th build that's even better?

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Well, at higher difficulties I normally steal my first 1-2 workers. If I have archery I'll get two to three archers and I'll definitely build a granary if I have wheat, bananas or dear, or the city just lacks food. I don't normally get internal trade routes open that early, though I probably should.

Libraries get priority, yes, but I usually can hold them off for a while to get the second city out sooner. Extra cities I do usually get working right away on shrines and libraries though, for religious benefits and getting National College as soon as I can.

 

[Antagonise]

I almost always start Scout-Monument-Shrine, then start working on a worker or an archer while I wait for 3 population, at which point I churn out a couple settlers most of the time. If I'm having trouble with barbs or connecting luxuries, I'll probably wait until population 4 and get out an additional unit and maybe even a caravan.

If I'm going Tradition, my second city will probably be Shrine-Granary-Library, while my third and fourth would be Granary-Library-Shrine.

If I'm going Liberty, it's Monument-(Shrine)-Library-Granary in cities 2 and 3, and Monument-Library-Granary-(Shrine) in city 4, most likely.

Shrines may be forgone quite frequently. It depends on production and religious situation in the game.

 

[59saintdane]

Well, at higher difficulties I normally steal my first 1-2 workers. If I have archery I'll get two to three archers and I'll definitely build a granary if I have wheat, bananas or dear, or the city just lacks food. I don't normally get internal trade routes open that early, though I probably should.

Libraries get priority, yes, but I usually can hold them off for a while to get the second city out sooner. Extra cities I do usually get working right away on shrines and libraries though, for religious benefits and getting National College as soon as I can.

Good point about worker stealing, I usually steal 2 (1 from AI and 1 from CS) so a worker probably isn't necessary early on in the build order. At what point would you build settlers though?

Also, I usually don't get a library in my cap that early on until I'm almost ready to build NC, because a library just doesn't give that many beakers at that point in time; a caravan gives more science in addition to gold. I usually NC with 3 cities so first build in second city is a library, first build in third city is granary and rush buy the library.

I almost always start Scout-Monument-Shrine, then start working on a worker or an archer while I wait for 3 population, at which point I churn out a couple settlers most of the time. If I'm having trouble with barbs or connecting luxuries, I'll probably wait until population 4 and get out an additional unit and maybe even a caravan.

If I'm going Tradition, my second city will probably be Shrine-Granary-Library, while my third and fourth would be Granary-Library-Shrine.

If I'm going Liberty, it's Monument-(Shrine)-Library-Granary in cities 2 and 3, and Monument-Library-Granary-(Shrine) in city 4, most likely.

Shrines may be forgone quite frequently. It depends on production and religious situation in the game.

With a library that late in the BO for your second and third cities, NC is going to come pretty late, which can never be a good thing.

 

[klaskeren]

i would not recommend granary early unless you have 1 or pref 2 resources. Better to get at least 3 scouts or warriors early i think scout monument scout scout shrine granary is good

 

[59saintdane]

1. Wouldn't archers be better than warriors?
2. Why not build a settler before the granary, since the granary food will not be used to grow while the settler is building?

 

[klaskeren]

1. Wouldn't archers be better than warriors?
2. Why not build a settler before the granary, since the granary food will not be used to grow while the settler is building?

1. I find that warriors are actually sometimes better than archers since they can actually take the camps the same turn they attack, but its mainly because you can build them early instead of going archery, taking AH and bronzeworking fast, but archers are fine aswell.

2. It depends on your production in cap. If you only have 2 good production tiles to work, obviously it wont do you much good to grow cap to size 5 before making settlers, but if you have 5 strong 3 hammer tiles, it pays off to grow to size 5 before making settlers, so the granary can be worth it to get that growth faster, and also the granary food does mean a little extra production to settlers.

 

[consentient]

This is completely dependent on game difficulty. If you play on Deity, which I do, then you will need an Archer ASAP. Good luck taking down hand-axes and spearmen without one.

 

[59saintdane]

1. I find that warriors are actually sometimes better than archers since they can actually take the camps the same turn they attack, but its mainly because you can build them early instead of going archery, taking AH and bronzeworking fast, but archers are fine aswell.

2. It depends on your production in cap. If you only have 2 good production tiles to work, obviously it wont do you much good to grow cap to size 5 before making settlers, but if you have 5 strong 3 hammer tiles, it pays off to grow to size 5 before making settlers, so the granary can be worth it to get that growth faster, and also the granary food does mean a little extra production to settlers.

1. But archers can deal damage without taking any. Spearman and hand-axes will deal more damage than they take from warriors, which makes it difficult for them to deal with barbs effectively without city support or a numbers advantage.

2. The thing is though if you wait to grow your cap to size 5 before making settlers, your cities will have less time to develop. Which I personally think is more important than shaving a few turns off your settlers; that's why I suggested 2 settlers straight after the shrine (provided you have happiness).

This is completely dependent on game difficulty. If you play on Deity, which I do, then you will need an Archer ASAP. Good luck taking down hand-axes and spearmen without one.

Yeah but on Deity don't the AIs also do a pretty good job of clearing out the barbs? You lack a bonus against them, yes, but in exchange you get to have AIs deal with most of them.

I also have difficulty fitting an archer into my early-game BO--I rarely get them pre-turn 50. My current BO of scout/monument/shrine/settler/settler will probably take me to T40-50, and even then I have important buildings left to build (granary, library, water mill, NC). Of course I'll build archers if there's a nearby barb quest or there's a risk of AI DoW, but other than that I still feel like buildings/settlers/scouts will snowball more effectively in the beginning stages.

 

[consentient]

I would prefer that I clear the barbs, boot-camping my units, and usually earning CS influence, since I usually only go after the ones that have quests. Plus, it's a nice way to pick up extra workers (or, if unneeded, return them for even more influence).

I know that others will have different BOs, but as a warmonger that usually goes Honor or Liberty (depending on how near my nearest victim is, and how much room I have + other factors), I usually go: Scout, Monument, Scout, Archer. I generally choose Archery second after Pottery, and sometimes even first if I have no immediate reason to build a Granary.

 

[AnonymousSpeed]

Yeah, barbarian camps are great for influence. In a recent game, I managed to secure a religion to due to taking out some camps for a religious city state.

 

[Strickl3r]

Lot's of players seem to build shrines in their 2nd and 3th cities. I don't like to do that, if you want a religion you need a faith pantheon or a natural wonder usually and shrines cost 1 gold maintanance. At least at the beginning i don't like to build more than one in the capitol.(exception is pacal)

If i don't want to start on a library asap i usually squeeze in a worker or build the granary first, if i can steal enough of them.

I also go with scout, monument, shrine in my capitol 90% of the time, definitely worker after that, if i didn't steal at least one or two.

 

[beetle]

Hmm, I am surprised that scout, scout, monument is not more popular than scout, monument, scout.

First thing I do with scouts is throw them against barbs to get +2 vision. Healing slows down my initial exploring, and I need to tag-team them. So its scout, scout, monument, shrine for me. Things are pretty variable after that.

 

[Memoryjar]

scout, scout, scout/warrior/archer, monument, shrine, grany.

 

[Gustavus Rex]

Amount off settlers depends of map. I go for 2-4 cities and I like to found them asap.

Continents: Scout, monument, shrine, arsher/warrior, settler, settler, settler.

Pangea: scout, scout, monument, shrine, settler, settler, settler.

If I can get pantheon other way - no shrine!

Skickat från min iPhone med Tapatalk

 

[morario84]

When you guys steal an early worker from AI- how harsh are the penalties? How early can you make peace? I steal them from CS when I can. Is it just as easy?


Does the AI civ matter when you steal one? I mean, do you steal from someone like Shaka or will they just roll you early if you piss them off? I play on immortal currently

 

[consentient]

Beetle, I go for Monument second because Honor and Liberty need it, culture ruins are a rarity, and Tradition just got a setback. You will finish your opening tree a lot faster with Monument second.

 

[59saintdane]

The diplo penalty is very low. You get a slight warmonger penalty from everybody, but it isn't a big deal and usually disappears after a while. Stealing from AI isn't as easy as stealing from CS, because with CS you can make peace the same turn that you DoW; when you steal from an AI you need to make sure your unit can make it out of there alive.

 

[beetle]

I go for Monument second because Honor and Liberty need it, culture ruins are a rarity, and Tradition just got a setback. You will finish your opening tree a lot faster with Monument second.

Can you give me argument for scout, monument, scout, that isn’t even a stronger argument for monument, scout, scout?

So, if we are not talking archipelago or maybe small islands, but either Tradition or Liberty, the ideal early build is one of:

1. monument, scout, scout
2. scout, monument, scout
3. scout, scout, monument

I think most people feel that (2) is the sweet spot. Mathematically, I think it has to be (1) or (3).

 

[Antagonise]

With a library that late in the BO for your second and third cities, NC is going to come pretty late, which can never be a good thing.

Not at all, most games this will get me NC pre turn-100 unless I have very low production.