Early Game Money Problems

[Leptomeninges]

I'm a long time Civ player, but am relatively new to Civ 4. Having some early game problems, particularly when I go into a rapid expand phase. I know generally they want you to make more well developed cities than ICS, but I feel like I don't know what tools are even available to me to combat cashflow problems. Trade seems automated and essentially determined by tech level and open borders agreements. Is there anything like the Civ 3 luxury slider I can use to influence my economy?

Looking for tips. Thanks.

 

[jeejeep]

Having some early game porblems, particularly when i go inot a rapid expand phase.

If you lose money when in a rapid expand phrase, you just shouldn't go into it. You need to have enough money to support your rapid expand phase first. An important way to get this money is to build and work cottages, especially on rivers. If you have more money than you need, expand. If you don't, don't.

 

[Matthevv]

Forget the rapid early expansion, its a mugs game. Only build a new city when your research is at 90-100% or you need to claim a key resource. City maintenance goes up exponentially as you build more cities, so having a big number of undeveloped cities will leave you broke. If you get in that state, you have to set your citizens to gather every coin they have, and get your workers to build cottages.

If you abandon a city (walk all your units out or disband them) in a place near where barbarians are found, then the barbarians will take it and look after it for you until you have enough cash to support it, when you can go and capture it back

 

[joasoze]

You can expand pretty fast. Dont worry if you are down to 10-20% for a while, but then you need to slow down and get up to 60-70% science before the next expansion. If you can afford 80-90% science then you are not expanding enough.

Use the three important ways of getting income cottages, cottages and cottages...

 

[Matthevv]

Do worry if you are down at 10-20% That means that you are falling behind in tech, which is the best way to lose. Having fewer cities is a problem that is easily resolved if you are up to date or ahead in tech Being behind in tech leaves you vulnerable militarily, and with zero chance of getting to build any wonders. If you have to put all your citizens on cottages to get enough cash, you can only build slowly, and your cities won't grow fast. It will take you a long time to catch up. I salute the indefatiguability of those players that like to make things as difficult as possible for themselves, but I prefer to take the easy route

 

[TCGTRF]

I'm a long time Civ player, but am relatively new to Civ 4. Having some early game problems, particularly when I go into a rapid expand phase. I know generally they want you to make more well developed cities than ICS, but I feel like I don't know what tools are even available to me to combat cashflow problems. Trade seems automated and essentially determined by tech level and open borders agreements. Is there anything like the Civ 3 luxury slider I can use to influence my economy?

Looking for tips. Thanks.

What difficulty level, map size and game length are you playing on? How fast you can expand depends a lot on these, as well as which Civ you are playing and what Civics you are using. If we know these, we can give you an idea of whether or not the number of cities you are talking about in your expansion is too many or if you're doing something else wrong.

Tom

 

[illram]

As mentioned above, each game is different and there are a variety of factors to consider such as what civ you are using, geography, etc., but: I find that, usually, on monarch I can go pretty low, about 20-30% if need be for the early portion of the game, as long as I am primarily building cottages and units and taking out my neighbours. (Basically if the city geography isnt conducive to pumping out either lots of shields or lots of great persons it should be mostly cottages.)

If you are consistently taking out cities, the cash flow from taking them over can subsidize a few turns at a higher science level if you need it. Once your cottages grow to villages and towns and you have enough cities with libraries you'll catch up and overtake the computer. I find banks really make a big difference with cash flow as well. (But by the time you get banks you shouldnt be at a low % anymore- at least 60 I'd say.)

Think of the early crunch as an investment in a high power future.

 

[mother superior]

Keep in mind:

Research %'s that are "acceptable" will vary. As the overriding factor is the number of beakers you are producing.

20% of 200 for example is a whole lot better than 20% of 50..

 

[duezeone]

Increase the population of your cities and develop the tiles around them.

 

[Archbob]

Generally you need to build improvements and grow your population to get more cash. If your really having trouble, pick a leader with the organized trait or financial trait, it does help alot.

 

[Stalker0]

And a big one, don't wait to research pottery or it will be too late. If your research percentage starts dropping it will take longer to get pottery, and without pottery for cottages you've dug a hole you often can't get out of.

 

[Cam_H]

Increase the population of your cities and develop the tiles around them.

the population of your cities to decrease the maintenance cost.

 

[joasoze]

I went broke in a marathon/monarch game yesterday. I had no bronze/iron for a long time and had to build lots of archers. When I finally got bronze and iron I produced quite a few units for defense as the barbs was very nasty. I took two cities from the barbs and with 7 cities I went bust. Too many units, and too many cities took me down...I played with Egypt and they are difficult for my style of playing. They dont start with mystisim or mining and that makes both religious and bronze chopping starts difficult.

 

[Theodorick]

the population of your cities to decrease the maintenance cost.

Population doesn't affect maintaince costs. I dont know who started this stupid rumor. Distance from palace affects maintaince costs. It even says so in the manual.

 

[Jotakami]

Yes it does. Go check out the other threads which discuss the formulae for maintenance costs. You seem to be fogetting that CIVICS cost maintenance, not just the cities themselves. And civic maintenance cost goes up with (1) number of cities and (2) total population. While in the early game this generally isn't a factor, it's still a part of the equation that you can't ignore.

 

[Yehbo]

Population doesn't affect maintaince costs. I dont know who started this stupid rumor. Distance from palace affects maintaince costs. It even says so in the manual.

I don't think the manual tells the whole story. There's an incomplete (but still useful) thread on the topic here:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=138473

I did my own WorldBuilder testing which seemed to confirm that civics cost goes up with population. City "distance maintenance" also goes up with population. And even "number of cities" cost is affected by population!

 

[thordk]

ever wondered why your income is lowered at the beginning of a new turn? it's because some city has grown in size

you CAN have a nice game with just 2-3 cities. but you won't get that many resources. grabbing a huge chunk of land early on with ~8 cities will grant you more resources.
and a better tech rate.

don't care if research drops to 10% during this phase. your cottages will grow and it won't take long to get research back to 60%.

and 60% of 200 commerce is better than 100% of 100 commerce

 

[ducker]

so in a war... what do you do... raze the majority of taken cities??? I've found that to be my problem. if it's a good location, I'd want to keep it.

 

[Draetor24]

My general rule is to expand quickly in early game only to grab resource areas and extend your borders. Later on you can make cities behind your borders to grab good land for improvements. I just find resource grabbing the most important for early cities, especially resources on the outskirts, before your opponents get em.

There are 2 types of city maintenance...

1) Distance Maintenance (from city to palace, or versailles, or forbidden)
2) Civic Maintenance (which increases based on civic choices, and total population/empire size)

 

[exitpoll]

A few tips:

1. Chop rush libraries in your new cities and use scientist specialists. This allows you to keep up tech-wise even with a horrible economy.

2. Build cottages. Generally work tiles that produce commerce.

3. Research code of laws and build courthouses in all cities.

Finally, peaceful rapid expansion is in my experience only possible up to a certain difficulty level. Around monarch, the AI expands at a very fast rate, and you're forced to conquer his cities.