Early Maces??!!

[cv431410]

Yea I guess you could but on higher levels Monarch and higher it's quite risky delaying the Oracle while you wait to complete researching Codes of law... by that time some otha Civ may have gotten it

As Cabert said earlier "CS slingshot at monarch is doable, but is a gambit". I have done it at monarch under this condition:

4 flood plains
2 hills
hut give me cottage so I do not have to research for it.

I can use the 4 floodplains (with cottage) to rush research and use the hills (with mine) to rush oracle by controlling the research speed and oracle production speed in the city management screen.

Rice/corn/sea food will help. No copper is available because of no bronze research. You do not need more resources because you cannot use them. At monarch, you have 6 health and your city must stop growing at 6.

6 - 7 good squares make CS slingshot at monarch easily doable. Above monarch, I have only 4 health and I no idea how this will work.

 

[cv431410]

Imagine what you can do with Toku in vanilla Civ! Early Samurais, Aggressive & Organized. Go a-conquering and nothing will stop you! This might make Japan the new Rome. Too bad about the starting techs. Unless you start near a lake or a seafood resource they're not that great.

Good idea: CS slingshot for early Samurais. I will have to try this one out.

6 - 7 good squares is all what you will need to make CS slingshot at monarch (See the above message).

 

[kniteowl]

As Cabert said earlier "CS slingshot at monarch is doable, but is a gambit". I have done it at monarch under this condition:

4 flood plains
2 hills
hut give me cottage so I do not have to research for it.

I can use the 4 floodplains (with cottage) to rush research and use the hills (with mine) to rush oracle by controlling the research speed and oracle production speed in the city management screen.

Rice/corn/sea food will help. No copper is available because of no bronze research. You do not need more resources because you cannot use them. At monarch, you have 6 health and your city must stop growing at 6.

6 - 7 good squares make CS slingshot at monarch easily doable. Above monarch, I have only 4 health and I no idea how this will work.

The only problem with this is that you can't get a GE as your 1st great person becuase you don't have metal casting to build forges therefore it'll take you 34 turns (200/6) (that doesn't include the time it takes to research Metal Casting) to create a GE after your GP (this is assuming your using a Philosophical Leader) therefore your delaying your advantage using maces for longer because you'd have to research Metal Casting and even posibly Machinery yourself even under Bureaucracy it'll take some time (Probably more or less the same amount of time it'll take to create a GE as your 2nd great person)

If you really want to Gamble use the oracle to pick up Machinery and your Great Prophet (1st great person) to pick up Civil Service then you'll be WAY ahead then using my Method of getting maces.

 

[wioneo]

Hmm... I'll need more drinks to kill off that builder, anyways, I usually use the oracle for metal casting and then trade that for everything that each of my neighbours' has got. Unless that is, if there is only one. I beleive that I waste the oracle on dual starts...

 

[cabert]

i usually don't build the Oracle.
I did it once (very easily) on Prince level for a very effective CS slingshot, and once with shaking hands on monarch (another CS slingshot).

Usually i research some metal and go for an early rush while teching to alphabet for extortion. No gamble there, you research everything the hard way .

 

[cv431410]

The only problem with this is that you can't get a GE as your 1st great person becuase you don't have metal casting to build forges ...

I use Quick Setting only and it looks like you use other settings.

After CS Slingshot (Quick Setting, financial, 4+ flood plains with cottages, +50% for capital), all researches will be completed between 1 - 4 turns. Metal casting and machinery will be completed in 4 turns each without GE (Actually I prefer to finish several 1-turn-research first before Metal casting and machinery). Even without GE, it it not too bad.

Now with GE, you can still use it for machinery as follows: finish Metal casting first without using GE. After that, GE will most likely give you Machinery.

 

[cabert]

wow quick is really quick

 

[cv431410]

Imagine what you can do with Toku in vanilla Civ! Early Samurais, Aggressive & Organized. Go a-conquering and nothing will stop you! This might make Japan the new Rome. Too bad about the starting techs. Unless you start near a lake or a seafood resource they're not that great.

I tried this online with 5 players, and needless to say, I own the map. The only problem is that Toku is a slow researcher; but level 4 Samurais are not matched by any units. In fact, all Tofu need to produce are Samurais, cat, and calvery, and the game is over.

 

[Mind_worm]

I would NEVER burn a great engineer on a tech! What about all of the wonders to be built? Like The Pyramids or The Great Wall? If you have those, save him until you need another one.

using an engineer on the G wall would be horrible. In fact, the only early wonder worth using it on is the pyramids. Engineers are great for opening techs, they get great early techs. I have been playing pangea maps lately with imnperialistic civs (caesar and cyrus) whcih makes building the great wall essential. in my latest game I used my first 2 engineers to bulb metal forging and machinery (pyramids were built before i got one). the second one happenned soon after I researched CS and was very timely and useful.

Why use them on wonders when you can just take them from AI

 

[carl corey]

Using a great engineer on the GW is not horrible, it's impossible. By the time you do get the GE, there's no way the GW isn't built yet.