Earth18Civ OCC Conquest...?

But, Fippy, I don't have horses :mischief: Asoka has the horses :mischief:



I would usually skip entirely on Cuirassiers and backfill on Cavalries in OCC and use the Cavs to prevent re-settling and pick up stray units.
Instead, I would beeline Riflemen and then Infantries. I value the March promotion very highly in that format.
However, I would also usually cottage-it-all. Having not a single cottage, here, I face 2 dead techs in the way of Rifling : PP and RP.
That might be an argument for going mounted.

I get your point @The market and pre-builds. I'd be building research otherwise. I think it's fine to secure the gold income before building up maintenance but I do get your point (you know I'll build a grocer, too).

:egypt:
 
:) Well i think Cuirs could already start taking care of bigger AIs in Europe.
Ofc we should skip attacking all small & harmless AIs, they can provide gold or just be around doing nothing.
Game is won when all bigger AIs are taken out, rest would be cleaning up.

Units that cannot be upgraded yet (not enuf gold) are actually useful too for plundering, or taking easy fights.
 
Well, of course, you are right, you were right indeed.
I built like 4 macemen and went for Rifling, making a detour for Nationalism while waiting on a trade for Guilds.
Now, Isabella has been kind enough to declare war on me, so I have unlocked the Heroic Epic. But I do not, in fact, have a mass of units.

760 AD :
Spoiler :


I'll take the merchant from Economics. No reason to leave it to some random AI.
Some AIs have started to renounce their right to victory.
I just checked in worldbuilder and of course France has uranium... Paris already holds 18 resources, as if it weren't enough.
 
Well, that was fun. 1 AD :
Spoiler :


Valergrad was right and Judaism is not an easy grab. I had to try 4-5 times to get it again.
I have been most unlucky with Saladdin founding Hindu, rather than Montezuma. He has been playing the zealot better than my shrine and has forced me to bulb Theology to secure a Jewish AP. It would be really bad if the AP had gone Hindu.
Oh, yes, I also sort of "had it all" in the holy quadrifecta : Stonehenge, Pyramids, Temple of Artemis, Oracle, in that order - which is exactly what I want in OCC. That ought to make up for my poor luck. I also popped a damn Great Artist, grrrr.

The Great Library was completed in 1000 BC. Currently running Representation, Buraucracy, Pacifism. I should probably switch into Caste System, like 6 turns ago.
Fought a Russian DoW around 700 BC, which was fine, since there weren't any catapults.


Looks like fantastic start. It would be very interesting to look how you've achieved this :)
 
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Yes. Bear in mind I did a handful of retries to secure the early game.
Also, depending on the initial warrior's placement, France can steal the German worker on turn 1 (which I did, which helped immensely).
 
QQ: what is the idea of building all this wonders? E.q. Hagia Sofia or even Sankore? I mean, they don't give too much for one city?
 
Alright. Here you go.

Spoiler :
T1 : I stole Freddie's worker and grew on Warrior.
Warrior then explores. Cease-fire. 2nd warrior steals Freddie's second worker. (So, I did not build a worker.)
Tech path : Mysticism, Masonry, Poly, Mono, Priesthood, Writing. Oracle Aesthetics.

I have this fine 2200 BC save for you and replayed some turns.
City management : always work the food before working hammers. At this point, the city grows to size 8 before hammering the ToA.
I also mostly, if not always, worked the wine over any forest.

Follow-up :
Spoiler :









Note that : I do not believe this is very skillful. It is mostly a matter of knowing what you want, what is good, and trying again until the stars align in compliance with your plan.
As you've pointed out, odds are some amount of wonders/religion will fail. Then again, it's possible to have a good game with only a couple of them, if they're carefully selected.
^ By which, I mean I'd be happy with the Pyramids and religion or Pyramids and Oracle in a BOTM.
^^ By which I also mean it isn't too much to ask of the game to get another goodie after the Pyramids are built.


QQ: what is the idea of building all this wonders? E.q. Hagia Sofia or even Sankore? I mean, they don't give too much for one city?
Passive :gp: is the answer. This is the reason to pick Louis to begin with.
Hagia Sofia was a 4 turns build or something like that. I wouldn't have made a detour for it but I had already bulbed Theology for the AP (which I really wanted to secure, because Judaism never became dominant). It's not a good wonder. Still, it gives some Engineer points.
Sankore is better. Around 700 AD, I have 4 Jewish buildings. Yeah... alright, it's better in a 20 cities Empire. Still, no small gains. Useful :gp: and a little bonus.
Consider that the wonders you build are also denied to the AI. Sure thing, Saladdin would benefit much more than I do from Sankore. Do I want that ? Not really.

With IND, Stone & Marble, spamming wonders doesn't really have a great opportunity cost.
Beakers are a lot more difficult to come by, as the game progresses, than hammers. So, if you put your hands on a tech that unlocks a random wonder, why not ?
(Some wonders are strategic and worth the beeline. But, in my mind, that stops at the National Epic. Others are situational.)

I missed on the Hanging Gardens. Would it have been great for me ? Not really.
But engineer points + denial value are still a reason to attempt to build them (not reason enough to self-tech Maths, though). I could have done without an AI having the burst in population.

It's the same reasonning (denial) that made me self-tech Nationalism and build the Taj Mahal. Was I very interested in the wonder ? No.
However, I hit a stopping point after investing beakers into Lib, researching PP and Gunpowder. Alternatives were waiting on a trade for Guilds and researching a filler tech or self-teching Guilds to acquire Rifling a few turns earlier. Researching Banking is fine to unlock Replaceable Parts but Guilds can be a huge blocking point.
I believe that denying Asoka/Qin/Cyrus the Taj Mahal and using Nationalism as an innocuous trade bait (for Guilds, Engineering, Music) ends up being the better choice.

With Pacifism, National Epic and the Parthenon, a random wonder yields 7:gp:/turn. It all adds up.
If I can count 6 "random" wonders in my most advanced screenshot, they account for 42:gp:/turn, which is a little above 20% of my overall production.
The long-term objective being to be able to 1-turn units and pay the maintenance for an army.
 

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BornInCantaloup, I've looked at your 2200BC save.
Now I understand :) So, you've started on stone. This gave you additional hammer from start and stone and marble 6 moves earlier ( because you don't need carrier). That's why you can finish SH extremely early ( just 4 moves after the Masonry and then you have time to finish Pyramids before writing.

Of course getting Judaism and Oracle so late - it was a pure luck, this will not happen without several attempts on reloads.

So... why I didn't even consider this tile from the start? Two reasons.
1. This 3 mountains looks scary. Of course this doesn't affect early game, first 100-120 moves, but for other 180 moves it is a kind of loss. May be I was overestimating this...
2. You don't have access to the ocean. This does mean, for example, if Monty will go for the victory - you won't we able to do literally nothing with this. No nuclear rockets, no destroying his spaceship city etc.
May be again I was overestimating how important to have access to the sea.

So, i wish you good luck with this attempt, and please update us, it is really interesting what will happen next :)
 
Why no "nuclear rockets" ? I've never used nukes in this game but this was my reasoning in forgoing sea access.
I've always believed ICBMs had unlimited range and they are my next tech target after Infantries.

I've played some more and hit a wall. My diplo is too bad : China, Persia, Russia, India, Arabia (i.e. all the major civs) are Hindu and Friendly with each other and signing defensive pacts. That leaves me with only Mansa as a trading partner. I believe at least 2 of those major civs should be Friendly with the player at this point (circa 1000 AD).
It is too hard otherwise.

I've played a little scared from razing cities and had my vassal Isabella capture some Roman/Greek stuff but this just takes too long on a huge map.
I'm not quite sure how to go about it, to be honest. Maybe be more agressive and accept to raze, even though I wouldn't be able to prevent resettling. This is a problem already on a standard map but a lot more accute here.
I've been impressed by Krikav's screenshot where his 2 vassals managed to settle everywhere.
For a start, I only managed the single vassal and then it took forever to grant her 3 o 4 cities.

1320 AD. Nice diplo, BiC :
Spoiler :


I lost half my stack, there. They were all banging on Frederick. I did a careless DoW and received 6 in return.
The "Isabella plan" didn't pan out. Hindu accounts for 44% of world's pop.
Paris sort of needs the Globe Theatre and the National Park, long term. Now I can see that.

Research peaked just below 1000 bpt before Scientific Method.

So, of course, better control of the diplo is the main point of progress, here...
But, then, maybe also starting earlier with the military. Spending 30+ turns to give Isabella 3 cities is also not acceptable.
If I were to retry from Lib --> Rifling. I should probably not even try to babysit Isabella, ignore/kill Alex and go straight after Arabia.

I would believe my first run was actually the better one, with Judaism taking over the world.
 
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My first run with Louis, I went out with cannons and made one vassal then, then tried to serve cities on a silver platter. But my vassal would not oblige... >_<
Had much more success with just razing everything.

You do realize that my run was about as far from a honest clean play as you could possibly get though...? First a carefully doctored start, and then some reloads along the way too!

I like the point about leaving small AIs alone... sort of. I farmed a ton of XP from Isabella (Prets and woody3 axe got 2xp at 99% odds or so attacking the city).
Also tried to make good use of imp+TGW which are added multiplacative. If you attack a chariot with your axe getting 3xp, you get 3*2*2=12 xp toward a GGeneral.
But Bella has to go before her Buddist holy city steals too many unmarked cities though. And Freddy was already dead due to the early worker stealing. And louis... well, getting Paris out of the way is necessery to make a vassal of him, and it's also probably the only path forward to gain access to those tiles and the resources around there.
 
Why no "nuclear rockets" ? I've never used nukes in this game but this was my reasoning in forgoing sea access.
I've always believed ICBMs had unlimited range and they are my next tech target after Infantries.

Yes, but you need to see the goal, isn't it? How you'll get visibility? I mean, one turn for Sputnics, but before and after?


1320 AD. Nice diplo, BiC :

Are you going to win this? :) You are a hero!
 
Yes, but you need to see the goal, isn't it? How you'll get visibility? I mean, one turn for Sputnics, but before and after?

If you get a vassal, and that vassal has cities on the other continent, you can airlift some observer units in, one per turn, with an airport.
 
Are you going to win this? :) You are a hero!
No, I'm not going to win this :lol: It was, in fact, in that position, that I threw the towel.
Interesting thing about Sputnik. I was indeed counting on that or map trades to get vision but didn't exactly consider the fact that knowledge would only last for a turn. Maybe sea access is more essential than I believed (I wasn't too sure to begin with but the inland city is also that much stronger).

Yes, Krik, I do fully realize that. I don't think it removes much from the feat :king:
 
No, I'm not going to win this :lol: It was, in fact, in that position, that I threw the towel.
Interesting thing about Sputnik. I was indeed counting on that or map trades to get vision but didn't exactly consider the fact that knowledge would only last for a turn. Maybe sea access is more essential than I believed (I wasn't too sure to begin with but the inland city is also that much stronger).

Yes, Krik, I do fully realize that. I don't think it removes much from the feat :king:

Still it was a good run - to get all this wonders...
 
Spoiler Diety Marathon 950 BC: :


Still pushing with the Praetorians or bust gambit - currently at Beijing. There's a boat that's been traveling for 1000 years to help take Japan, Mainland Europe, Africa, and the Middle East are now a wilderness. 11 down, 4 more to go in the old world. Thinking about throwing in the towel though - this barbarian stream is really hampering my ability to send troops east.

Kind of hilarious, to be stymied by barbs of all things. If I were to replay this, I'd keep 1 AI alive with 1 city in eastern Europe or build the Great Wall.


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