Economics Modcomp discussion

civ_king

Deus Caritas Est
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u 4got bimetl standrd

You forgot the bimetal standard
 

konradcabral

Prince
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Opening post updated with sugarfree's and others' contribution. Please keep the ideas and corrections coming. I'm trying to design a formula for inflation.
 

Cyrusfan

King
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Jul 18, 2009
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Will one civ's currency strength (which I guess is the inverse of inflation) compared to another affect trade (either trade routes or resource/currency swaps)?
 

sugarfree

Chieftain
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Jan 6, 2010
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Will one civ's currency strength (which I guess is the inverse of inflation) compared to another affect trade (either trade routes or resource/currency swaps)?

Possibly, but i think the inflation mechanic itself, as it is every-turn cost to player, simulates player's purchasing power.
 

sugarfree

Chieftain
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Opening post updated with sugarfree's and others' contribution. Please keep the ideas and corrections coming. I'm trying to design a formula for inflation.

Listen, could you explain me how the civic bonuses work? I mean, are they applied to rough :gold: production of cities, or :gold: with bonuses from bank etc.? I always thought (but never actually counted it) that if i have base :gold: production let's say 10 and build market (+25%) and bank (+50%), the bonuses just stick together and make +75%. If I am wrong, that explains why I always want to put +50%, where you put +10% :)

I am asking this because +10% trade route yield seems to me like nothing, when you have already on the same trade route applied bonuses for customs house, foreign trade, sustained peace etc.
 

konradcabral

Prince
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There's :commerce:, that is pratically raw, with just a few additions, and there's :gold:, which is affected by banks, markets, etc. Look in the city screen you will understand it better.
 

wolfigor

Emperor
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Yes, I'm one of the founders of the club "Cut down these bonus". But the majority of what I proposed are indisputable improvements invented by mankind. How give them negative bonus? But I was conservative in the bonus, of this you can't complain.
hmmmm ... in the list i see "Derivatives".
The current economical crisis could be considered as a result of undisciplined use of derivatives... many of the modern economical "tools" have some negative back-effect.
Even something like stock exchange did lead to speculative effects that had very negative effect on the whole economy.
See tulip mania of 1636 for one of the earliest cases.

negative attributes to new techs and civics may be appropriate.
 

Killtech

Discutator
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Only if I could simulate economic cycles. In the long-term, stocks and derivatives will always be a progress and a help to economy growth.

i doubt that. economy always tends to crash when people forget about what's a commercial papers and derivatives prices are based on in reality. then this papers prices start to develope independently from what they are based on and the marked tends to crash. it seems derivatives are a good tool to bring fortune to few speculants and ensure crashes. don't see their good for the economy. i mean they don't generate money nor do their partially independent prices help to spread money where it's most useful for the economy. but that's an analysis of an economic outsider with math & physics backgroud.
 

konradcabral

Prince
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i doubt that. economy always tends to crash when people forget about what's a commercial papers and derivatives prices are based on in reality. then this papers prices start to develope independently from what they are based on and the marked tends to crash. it seems derivatives are a good tool to bring fortune to few speculants and ensure crashes. don't see their good for the economy. i mean they don't generate money nor do their partially independent prices help to spread money where it's most useful for the economy. but that's an analysis of an economic outsider with math & physics backgroud.

The welfare brought by speculation is being a counterpart to these who need it, the so-called secondary market. If speculation was prohibited, risk would be far more greater and people would do much less projects, and therefore economies wouldn't be this big, and we would be poorer. Remember that I spoke about long-term. Usury was a sin until people see the beneficts it brings. The same thing is the "unhappiness" brought by modern papers.

About the crashes, they aren't part of the derivatives' pure nature, and in 2008 it reflected the lack of proper regulation, mostly by the US.
 

Killtech

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The welfare brought by speculation is being a counterpart to these who need it, the so-called secondary market. If speculation was prohibited, risk would be far more greater and people would do much less projects, and therefore economies wouldn't be this big, and we would be poorer. Remember that I spoke about long-term. Usury was a sin until people see the beneficts it brings. The same thing is the "unhappiness" brought by modern papers.

About the crashes, they aren't part of the derivatives' pure nature, and in 2008 it reflected the lack of proper regulation, mostly by the US.

you seem to have a quite an uncritical believe in derivatives and the new market. true, you cannot prohibit these nor is there any sense in thinking this way. the appearance of this financial tools might be just a natural phenomenon in large modern economies. these new features bring many positive and but probably at least as many negative aspects with them. so we just have to learn to deal with them. regulations might compensate some of the negative effects of the new market, but some will remain. i just hope in the end all this will bring us more good than the trouble it brought - IMHO this yet remains to be proven.
 

konradcabral

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This has nothing to do with belief, less with uncriticism. I do not know enough about derivatives to prove it to you, neither would have the time to do it. My point is: derivatives' and stocks' beneficts are permanent, and the harms are temporary, cyclic. If wasn't that way, the world would simply banish them after 2008, don't you agree?
 

Killtech

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This has nothing to do with belief, less with uncriticism. I do not know enough about derivatives to prove it to you, neither would have the time to do it. My point is: derivatives' and stocks' beneficts are permanent, and the harms are temporary, cyclic. If wasn't that way, the world would simply banish them after 2008, don't you agree?

banish? you cannot banish something if everyone posses so much of it already. it's like forbidding a material of with the carrying walls of a house are build off - after the house is finished.

furthermore which effects of derivatives are permanent and which are temporary is not yet completely know i'd say and on long term it certainly cannot be calculated. all we can make is assumptions.
 

konradcabral

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banish? you cannot banish something if everyone posses so much of it already. it's like forbidding a material of with the carrying walls of a house are build off - after the house is finished.

furthermore which effects of derivatives are permanent and which are temporary is not yet completely know i'd say and on long term it certainly cannot be calculated. all we can make is assumptions.

You are misunderstanding me, and partly is my fault. Let's start from the beginning: do you know how derivatives work and for what does it serve?
 

Killtech

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You are misunderstanding me, and partly is my fault. Let's start from the beginning: do you know how derivatives work and for what does it serve?

well i'm not an economist so all my knowledge is based on newspaper articles and wikipedia. but yeah, i have general concept of what they are: rights to do something with the things they are derived from. but for what good they are it's hard to tell form me in some cases: derivates of the form of 'bets' on falling share prices. i really can't tell what good they serve. as for options i know how these can be utilized to minimize risks and stabilize prices.
 
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