Eight New Hoplite units

[Rabid Pop Tart]

Originally posted by Kryten
Personally, I think Immortals should be 2-2-1, +1 hit point, cost 50, upgrade to “Hired Hoplites”, and have a defensive bombardment of 2 or 3 with a range of zero
[/B]

If you want the Immortals upgradeable, then what's the prerequisite for Hired Hoplites? I had assumed Iron Working, but if that's the case then you'd never get to build Immortals.

 

[Mephansteras]

Currency, I'd assume.

 

[Michael York]

Kryten, My knowledge of Greek history pales next to yours, but I too hated the misrepresentation of the Immortals. I normally mod them into a glorified spearman, either +1 HP, 2/2/1, 30 shields, or just 2/2/1. (They Don't replace spearman if they get two upgrades).

Since your a Brit, I commonly make the Longbowmen a UU for England and make it the best unit (and most expensive) in the medeval era. 5/4/1, very expensive!

 

[Rabid Pop Tart]

Originally posted by Mephansteras
Currency, I'd assume.

Yeah, that's obvious. Thanks

 

[mrtn]

I realised I had just downloaded these, without saying anything, so; Thank you!
I use 'em as mediterranean swordsmen, as an egyptian with a dead wolf on his head is quite ridicoulous.

 

[Penguin-Camel]

Ten Stars **********

 

[Daedalus420]

I can't wait to see the Macedonian Companion Horseman, they look sweet. I was looking for a good light cav. for my unstopable army. Now all will kneel before the might of my Horseman.:saiyan:

 

[SuperBeaverInc.]

Very nice units Kryten, just downloaded 2 of them.

 

[Halidon55]

I've been away for awhile. Does anyone know if the Persian Horsemen or the Macedonian Horsemen are completed?

 

[thestonesfan]

That's a negative, Halidon55.

 

[Mithadan]

Have Civilopedia Large & Small pcx files been made for any of these units? If so, where might I find them (they don't appear to be in this thread)? If not, may I be so bold as to request that somebody with the know-how make some? There were some made for the peltast...

Thanks!

*Mithadan flashes an ingratiating smile*

 

[Kryten]

Mithadan,
I have added some civilopeadia picture to the first post of this thread.
They are fairly crude....but better than nothing.

Originally posted by Halidon55
Does anyone know if the Persian Horsemen or the Macedonian Horsemen are completed?

Yes, the "Macedonian Companion Horseman" is finished and available.
(Still working on the others...... )

 

[Xen]

on the citizen hoplite what is the civ-specific colour, pink or blue, I ask as it would be rather...unfortunate.... for some macho elite Athenian Ephiboi corps to be running around in...pink....

 

[Kryten]

As with most previews created by FLICster, all the blue bits are in civ colours.
The Citizen Hoplite has a blue tunic under his breastplate, blue wristbands, a blue bird emblem on his shield, and a blue & red horsehair crest on his helmet.

Of course, you could assign any colour you liked to the nation that uses them.....

 

[Mithadan]

Thanks, Kryten!

 

[Xen]

hmmm...the unfortunate thing is my "pink" was refering to the "red"....

 

[blix]

Originally posted by Kryten
Persian Hired Hoplite
--------------------------
(Civanator is already creating a ‘Mercenary hoplite’, and I didn’t want to steal the name, so I’ve called this one a “Hired Hoplite” instead)
The famous Immortals were destroyed by the Athenians and Spartans at the battle of Plataea in 479 BC, and were never reformed. Instead, the Persians used their vast wealth to hire the best troops around at that time….Greek Mercenary Hoplites.
Suggested stats: 2-3-1, requires iron, and costs 40 (if the “Subjugated Hoplite” costs 30, then this unit should cost a little bit more).

You know, in reality, the Persian Immortal was never as good as Civ3 portrays them. Here is a brief history of this unit:-
First, they were formed about 530 BC, and disappeared after 479 BC, so only existed for some 50 years (or just two Civ3 turns!).
Second, there were just 10,000 of them, no more, no less. This is less than 5% of the total Persian army.
Third, they were destroyed by Athenian & Spartan Hoplites.
Lastly, rather than reforming them, the Persians hired Greek Hoplites instead.
When Alexander the Great invaded Asia Minor in 334 BC for example, he faced some 20,000 Mercenary Hoplites at the battle of Granicus, and 30,000 a year later at the battle of Issus, but NO ‘Immortals’, because they had disappeared almost 150 years earlier.

Soooo…..how did the Greeks defeat them, why were they not rebuilt, and why did the Persians use mercenaries instead?
The reason is obvious….Greek Mercenary Hoplites WERE BETTER!!!
Personally, I think Immortals should be 2-2-1, +1 hit point, cost 50, upgrade to “Hired Hoplites”, and have a defensive bombardment of 2 or 3 with a range of zero (in reality they were armed with spears + bows. It’s hard to see, but if you look closely the Civ3 Immortal actually carries a bow case on his back).

Having said that, I very much doubt that I can persuade anyone to downgrade their favourite ancient Civ3 unit just because it’s more realistic!
(“Oh well….at least you tried Kryten, at least you tried”)

http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads2/Hired_Hoplite.zip

True that Hoplites where way better then the Immortals.I remember when there was a civil war in Persia between 2 heirs to the Persian throne,Cyrus the Young and his brother who's name I've forgotten.Cyrus hired 10,000 Greek Mercenaries to fight for him and pay them after he defeats his brother,but eventually he was killed in battle so the Greeks didn't get their pay.

The Greek commanders of the Mercenary army had decided to move their troops out of Persia and back to Greece while looting every city and town they went by to make up for the pay they were promised but never got.As they made their trek out of Persia they were continully harassed by the Persian Army.One day the Persians invited the Greek commanders to a peace treaty but instead killed them under a guise of treachery,it was then the Greeks had no commanders,so they turned to a cavalry captain named Xenophone,an Athenian who was banished from the city for serving as a mercenary for the Spartans during the Peloppenisian(Spelling?)War and a student of Plato,to guide them out of Persia.

They eventually made it back to Greece but in this one trek,they showd the world the many military weaknesses of Persia.Alexander the Great even studied the tactics used by the mercenaries before invading Perisa.

 

[Sims2789]

i thought the Spartans were better person-for-oerson than the Thebans. shouldn't the Spartans cost 60 with +2 hp and the theban Sacred Band cost 50 with +1 hp.

 

[Kryten]

Originally posted by sims2789
I thought the Spartans were better person-for-person than the Thebans. Shouldn't the Spartans cost 60 with +2 hp and the Theban Sacred Band cost 50 with +1 hp?

Yes, the Spartan Hoplites were much better man-for-man than the regular Theban Hoplites....but the Theban Sacred Band were not regular soldiers.
They were the very elite of the Theban army, and there were only 300 of them.

Plus the fact that the Thebans defeated the Spartans at the battles of Leuctra & Mantinea in 371 & 362BC, partly because of the tactics of the Theban general Epaminondas, and partly because of the Theban Sacred Band, unlike other Greek Hoplites, could stand up to and match the dreaded Spartans.

So you have the choice:-
Either several Spartan Hoplites with +1 hit point each, OR, a Theban army of ordinary Hoplites and one elite Sacred band with +2.

 

[Xen]

hey Kryten, any plans to ever do an Athenian Hoplte with a nice big Owl on the shield?