eldar08: Gridlocked!

[Othniel]

Perhaps you have got a free slot for me?

eldar's been advertising for a free slot and I think that having another player would be nice, but it's eldar's game and thus his call.

Turnset is done.

Summary Version:
- Learned Philo and Republic, revolted and became a republic in 1050 BC
- Declared war on Persia, razed Antioch and are marching on Pasagarde
- Setup a temporary block in the south to block Iroquois and Carthage settler pairs

As eldar said earlier, these Emperor civs are pathetic! They maybe some of the weakest I've ever seen. The mishmash of Iroquois and Carthage cities in the south are laughable. I chose Persia as the first target because they look to have the strongest position, they have horses and are near silks, and we can eliminate one front.

To exploit the diplomatic situation, here is what I propose: Within a few turns--when we've built a few more swords--we declare war on the Iroquois. They do have a warrior in our territory, and if trap the warrior and then give him boot orders, we may get the Iroquois to declare war on us and get war -faces. My idea is to then renegotiate peace with Carthage and get an MA / peace treaty combo against Iroquois. Let Carthage and Iroquois duke it out while we sit back. Eventually we get war happiness when Carthage has to declare war on us. I think we have plenty of power to fight a two-front war also.

Hand-off Notes:
- We can set up Mayflower for a 4 turn settler factory starting next turn--I vote to do so. Anyone not familiar with running a settler factory, please ask
- We can buy embassies with Carthage and Iroquois if we so choose

• Iroquois costs 41 gold
• Carthage costs 36 gold

- Playboy is building a settler but I think the build is debatable. It could also build a rax and pump swords because it has some nice tiles to work. If we go for the rax, use the Persian slaves to chop a forest to speed the rax
- I started some workers on chopping the jungle for lack of better projects
- We can attack Pasargarde in force in 2 turns
- Forbidden Palace build?

Turn Log:

Spoiler :

Pre-flight:
Like eldar said in his post, these AI opponents are pathetic or even beyond pathetic.

I think we should pick Persia as our first opponent and kill them. They have horses, access to silks, and it would be nice to eliminate one front. When we get enough coin for some embassies, I think we should re-negotiate peace with Carthage and ally them against Persia AND against Iroquois (means we need to declare on Iroquois too pretty soon. This should not be a problem at all). That way we get some wars started and can get war happiness pretty soon.

Philo is due in 2 and I plan on revolting immediately provided we indeed get Republic

Make the following trades:
Trade Iroquois CoL and get Maps
Trade Persia CoL and get Math and 2 gold

Why do we have so many reg warriors? I might disband some when we become Republic.

Change over builds like eldar suggested.

Our workers are also doing funny things but I'll let them finish for now

Hit enter...


Turn 1
Chicken Ranch Settler --> Worker

Found Bordello Bluff 3SW of Chicken Ranch

Add an MP to Mayflower to prevent riot

I'm using a few spare warriors and a scout to block a Carthage settler pair. I'm also gathering up a strike force to go after Persia


Turn 2
Learn Philo and get Republic for free. I delayed the revolt by one turn so that Mayflower could finish its sword.

Mayflower Sword --> Settler

We get the Forbidden Palace message

Disband a scout because it will eat up unit support

Actually, I am going to delay revolting one more turn. We get a catapult from PM and a galley from Moonlight next turn, I think that makes the delay worth it.

Persia just learned HBR but I don't see a lot of reason to buy it. We could trade Philo for it but I think we should just get it for peace...if we choose to give them peace. The Iroquois or Carthage will also surely learn it soon. I put our research at Currency but left the slider at 0% for now. I think we should get some gold for warrior upgrades and the embassies.

Turn 3
Moonlight Galley --> Barracks
Playboy Catapult --> Settler

Revolt and draw a rather long 5 turns of anarchy. Mayflower gets a clown to keep the peace.

Turn 4
Dial up Persia and DoW them.

Our curragh in the north finds there is a little more land up there than I expected

Turn 5
Raze Antioch and collect 1 slave. Our catapult got a hit and our swords finished off the 2 defender spears. I move another archer toward St. Silky (I already moved an extra vet warrior that way) in case any Persians appears. In retrospect, it may have been slightly brash of me to DoW while we are in anarchy. I simply didn't think about it. Hopefully Persia is as weak as it appears.

IBT
A Carthage warrior moves into our land in the north near Persia. I don't think its a threat, though
Persian warrior--settler pair appears near Antioch

Turn 6
Found Capone's Crib near some Dyes in the west. (somehow gangsters came to mind when I thought about the prostitution theme)

IBT
Persia finishes the Colossus

Turn 7
Kill the Persian settler pair and get two more slaves

Send our galley on a suicide mission to the east

Anarchy ends next turn


IBT
Our galley dies
Iroquoian settler pair appears in the south

Turn 8
The Republic of America is born

Micro Mayflower to grow in 3 and get a settler in 3. Unfortunately, Mayflower's size forces me to raise lux to 20% temporarily because no more MPs. We can choose to run Mayflower as a 4-turn settler factory if we want now that no despo penalty.

Change Tad's Mansion over to a galley

IBT
Sad times! Our warrior fortified in the jungle dies of disease. I had totally forgotten to just space bar him to prevent disease. My bad!

Turn 9
Continue our block in the south and move around workers


Turn 10
Do a little microing and move units

Get ready for next player. Good luck!

 

[Othniel]

I forgot to add this above and I'll do a separate post to highlight it:

Once we got Philo, I turned off research. It's currently set to Currency but at 0%. I did this mostly because I thought getting some cash for embassies / warrior upgrades would be a good thing. We can turn back on research if the team wants.

 

[MooseWarrior]

Ok, so I'm up now... So, get Iro to declare war, or declare war on them after finish off or peace Persia? I just read through Othniels Turn-set quickly, so I didn't pick up what he meant, just asking for a little clarification.

 

[Othniel]

Ok, so I'm up now... So, get Iro to declare war, or declare war on them after finish off or peace Persia? I just read through Othniels Turn-set quickly, so I didn't pick up what he meant, just asking for a little clarification.

Sorry, been busy so didn't get a chance to reply sooner.

I think we can fight Persia and Iroquois at the same time, so I don't think we need to wait too much longer to declare on the Iroquois. Certainly I don't think we need to wait until we kill Persia or sign peace with them.

That said, my idea is more along the lines of getting Carthage to fight the Iroquois while we, uhh, supervise from the sidelines. The purpose of this is to weaken both Carthage and Iroquois before we finally come in force and wipe both out. Of course, we're still going to have to do some fighting ourselves because inevitably the AI will send some troops our way. For that reason, I think we should wait a few more turns before getting into a war with Iroquois. Those few turns should give us a little time to build a few more swords.

Are you familiar with re-negotiating peace treaties and methods of creating war happiness (or war happiness for that matter)? These things involve a bit of diplomatic trickery and while very valuable, are a tiny bit complex to learn. If you are not familar, don't worry about it. Just post here and I'll post some how-tos on these things. Learning them is great way to boost your civ skills.

 

[eldar]

I'm back from me 'ols. Rome is indeed the Eternal City - you need an eternity to see everything, and we only had a week!

It all looks good so far

Except:

- Forbidden Palace build?

No culture = no FP!

I think keeping up on the suicide galleys is a good plan.

Rodent - you are welcome to join in!

 

[Rodent]

Roster Please?

I would like to suggest that you declare war on the Iroquois sooner rather than later, Who knows what might turn up and Persia does not seem to be offering much resistance

 

[eldar]

Yep I guess a check of who's who and where and what would be in order....

eldar (back)
Tad_Empire_O_o
CommandoBob <- (back?)
Othniel <- just played
MooseWarrior <- UP!
Rodent <- on deck

 

[MooseWarrior]

Ok, I don't know about war happiness, if you could help, that would be nice
I know how to renegotiate peace, and I should be able to start playing tomorrow, because I have to re-install Civ3 and Conquests plus the patch, my computer got really messed up.

 

[eldar]

WH, as far as I remember, is one free happy face for every 4 citizens total. So cities size 4-7 get 1 free happy face, 8-11 get 2, etc.

So WH bonuses are really only useful if we have a few size-4 cities.

 

[choxorn]

lurker's comment: In that case, wait for your cities to grow a bit cause only one is that big.

 

[MooseWarrior]

Ok, I've done 1st five turns, got the Iro warrior trapped, and gave boot orders, but he just had him leave our territory, anyone want to vote on what to do next, either declare on Iro and fight them and Persia simultanously, and get Carthage into a MA against them, or just let them live untl persia dies. If anyone wants, I'll attach the save half-way through.

 

[Othniel]

I only have a moment so just a brief reply

So WH bonuses are really only useful if we have a few size-4 cities.

True, true. And with getting dye online soon, happiness might not be a problem. But we should have some size 4 cities very soon and I'd rather have war happiness than not.

No culture = no FP!

Righto. Forgot about our no culture thing.

 

[eldar]

I'd like to get Carthage and Iros fighting each other - they should waste their GAs. Having failed to get Hiawatha to declare on us with a boot order, I think we ought to just declare on him and sign up Hannibal anyway. We just need to be prepared to deal with MWs attacking us - until we get our own horses they will be able to retreat.

 

[MooseWarrior]

Alright, I'm gonna build up the military in the south and declare on iro with a MA with Carthage, although by the time I think we have enough, my turnset might be done.

Spoiler :

Sorry about the hap-hazard turn-log, I lost the original one I made.
Not much happened in the first 5 turns, except for the razing of Parsagade, and the founding of Golden Ranch in 925, and embassy in carthage, they were building pyramids, and had 2 numidian mercs in capitol.
Upgraded some warriors into swords.
Roaded the dyes.
Killed some persian spearmen trying to sneak into our territory.
Founded Farmer's Club in last turn.
Lost a sword attacking persepolis, but killed a spear. Didn't get to start a war with the iroqouis.
Seriously, not much happened in the ten turns.

 

[eldar]

Regarding Carthage... is it (a) on The Grid and (b) in with a shot of getting the Pointy Granary Providing Wonder?

 

[Othniel]

Regarding Carthage... is it (a) on The Grid and (b) in with a shot of getting the Pointy Granary Providing Wonder?

No idea on the time left for Pyramids. Moose, you have an embassy screenshot?
But, grid-wise...

Unless my fingers and toes deceive me, Carthage is on the grid.

Progressing is looking pretty decent. Can't look at save right now so a couple of questions:

• What's the size of our stack outside Persepolis?

to start a war with the iroqouis.
Didn't get
Seriously, not much happened in the ten turns.

• Does this mean we are at war with Iro or not?

Two nitpicks:

• Why the archer build in St. Silky Jungly Mansion?
• Our settler factory in Mayflower looks off. It should run from size 3-5 and never drop to size 2.

Overall good stuff.

 

[Bartleby]

lurker's comment: Can someone post a minimap?

 

[MooseWarrior]

Ummmm.... I forgot to take a screenie when I established embassy, but they had 56 turns left, and then I played 8 more turns, so they should have 48 turns left on the pyramid, unless they grew...

We are not at war with the Iroquois, I didn't have the time to start a war with them.

The stack outside Persepolis was 3 swords and a catpult, but 1 sword died, but there is a sword and an archer coming up to reinforce.

Carthage is on the grid.

Spoiler :

Minimap

 

[Rodent]

Got it. Will play tommorow

 

[Othniel]

Keeping Carthage (the city) alive until the Pyramids complete seems like a good idea. 48 turns isn't that long, we'll be occupied with finishing off Persia and Iroquois, and getting free granaries would be quite nice. Hopefully a civ on another continent doesn't finish it first.

@ Rodent: Can you please get Mayflower back on a 4-turn settler factory schedule? Doing that will be important so that we can fill our area fast.

You can run the factory from sizes 3-5 using a sequence like this:
Turn 1: Cow, BG, BG (6s, 5f)
Turn 2: Cow, BG, BG, forest (14s, 10f) works forest on pop growth
Turn 3: Cow, BG, BG, mined grass (21s, 5f) make sure to manually change forest to mined grass after the pop growth
Turn 4: Cow, BG, BG, mined grass, forest (30s, 10f)

This is an easy 4 turn settler factory. You will have to mess with things for the first few turns to get the city back on schedule.