You could maybe release a small patch, that corrects some small mistakes and adds some new graphics, without calling it a new version though. Copy the whole Mod-folder and delete all files that have not been updated, and then include instructions to merge it with the old version and simply overwrite all old files.
elder scrolls mod development thread
- Thread starter smortt
- Start date
soon!
I'm adding some python changes now:
- Bosmer can now found cities only in forests or jungles
- Their cities don't destroy the forests and jungles, so they retain their forest bonuses while defending their cities.
- They can't build walls though, to balance it.
- Similarly, argonian cities don't destroy jungles. (they can build cities outside of them though)
- Orcs have pillaging bonuses.
I'm adding some python changes now:
- Bosmer can now found cities only in forests or jungles
- Their cities don't destroy the forests and jungles, so they retain their forest bonuses while defending their cities.
- They can't build walls though, to balance it.
- Similarly, argonian cities don't destroy jungles. (they can build cities outside of them though)
- Orcs have pillaging bonuses.
vktj
Warlord
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 237
I looked at a slightly older version of it and am very pleased that third party map scripts for vanilla Civ 4 -- such as my bugfix update to Cephalo's Perfect World ("Totestra") -- work perfectly with this mod. In addition, I'm glad this mod doesn't require one to run it as Admin; that always bugs me. I am really glad to see active mod development for Civ4 and really like what I see with this mod so far.
thx. I'm glad it worked; note that there is a new terrain type (ashlands), not sure if it was generated.
WOw they're great. How did I miss those?!?
Is Khajiit salvation near??I see 5 scout-like units; it's a start! I guess it's Nifskope time again!
I'll try to turn them into something more cat-ly (probably next week)
vktj
Warlord
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 237
Probably not; the map generator will only (unless modified) generate terrains that exist in Vanilla Civ4. I'm curious: Under what conditions of rainfall and height would we see ashlands? In this universe, what causes a given terrain to be an ashland?
- Sam
Spoiler :
Ashlands is the result of huge masses of Volcanic ash from the Eruption Cloud, usually spread out through the wind. Here's some examples from RL:
Spoiler :
As the wind spreads this, there's really no effect from the height, and if this came with rain, we would probably just get some wet mud-like water-ash mix, so I don't really think there's any especialities that causes landto be ashland with the exception of it having to be near a Volcanoe.
Well in real world the effect is probably temporary (after an eruption)
In tamriel there is a huge volcano which continously spits ash, and all the lands surrounding it are ashlands. I have some unique resources there, and one civ has some unique improvement that thry can build there.
In tamriel there is a huge volcano which continously spits ash, and all the lands surrounding it are ashlands. I have some unique resources there, and one civ has some unique improvement that thry can build there.
vktj
Warlord
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 237
OK, this would be a little tricky to adapt PrtfectWorld/Totestra to generate.
The map generator has no concept of volcanoes (although this has been done--another tectonic generator I have played with has heat vents which become volcanic islands on the map), so one possible workaround would be to take the highest peak, call that a volcano, and make those ashlands. Or just say all high-altitude places are volcanic and make ashlands exists in higher altitudes.
I would only do it after seeing what I can do about a random map generator tailored for Legends of Ancient Arabia.
- Sam
The map generator has no concept of volcanoes (although this has been done--another tectonic generator I have played with has heat vents which become volcanic islands on the map), so one possible workaround would be to take the highest peak, call that a volcano, and make those ashlands. Or just say all high-altitude places are volcanic and make ashlands exists in higher altitudes.
I would only do it after seeing what I can do about a random map generator tailored for Legends of Ancient Arabia.
- Sam
additional idea for orcs:
To reflect the general strategy of winning by masses (of simple units), they should be able to always deliver some damage. Even then, and especially then, when the odds are that bad, that normally, they would loose without doing damage whatsoever. Together with a lowered unit-maintenance they could go for e.g. a 10:1. Of couse, in the early stages, chariots with double-flanking-promotions provides this already, but it is not that flavorful like throwing in a bunch of meele units, marching steady 1 tile per turn to the enemy.
The possibility of deliviring assured damage (e.g. 5 - 10% or a fixed health number) could be done through a special promotion (granted for free or have to be chosen like a normal promotion), for a special unit type only, or as an hidden build-in-mechanic. Also, it could be something like 0-10% assured damage. Thus, it they would have 5% assured damage in average.
To compensate - and for the flavor of simple units - there could be some nerf in research (however, with masses of units they will be nerfed by maintenance anyway).
Some ideas here are:
- reduce commerce by 1
- reduce commerce by 1 if there is only 1
- increase research cost for "non-orcish" techs
- nerf research-buildings for orcs (e.g.: library with less +% and/or viewer specialists)
another helpful feature would be the possibility of setting relais points for newly built units, so the cities behind can generate a stream of new units to be delivered to the front. That way, enemy lands can be cluttered with orcs quite visibly, too.
EDIT: to make "streaming in of troops" also in respect of combat somehow useful, there must be an alternative for the all-in-one-turn-attack on cities or units on the path. Therefore, i would suggest the following: if a lost attack can deliver damage, the damaged units gets a "wither" promotion. That would be a negative promotion in fact, reducing the strength permanently by % (or an absolute number). These wither promotions then can be accumulated (or changed from lower to the highest). For example there are 9 promotions ranging from -10% to -90%.
For the calculations: If an attack would drops the helath of the defending unit to x% (with x > 0), instead, a respective wither promotion (rounded up or down) is applied. A softer version could apply only e.g. half of the damage as a wither promotion: when a lost attack would drop to 80%, instead, defending unit gets a -10% wither promotion applied.
Further, removing wither promotions (if possible at all) could be possible in exchange for one or more of the following
- loosing fortification bonus
- inactivity (not being able to defend)
- a temporal defense malus
The removal could be done on the basis of the wither level. So, for example, there would be 1 turn of inactivity/no fortification bonus/... per 10% wither level removed. Removing a wither promotion could also be restricted to one level per turn. However, this could be somewhat tedious to play with.
great mod btw!
To reflect the general strategy of winning by masses (of simple units), they should be able to always deliver some damage. Even then, and especially then, when the odds are that bad, that normally, they would loose without doing damage whatsoever. Together with a lowered unit-maintenance they could go for e.g. a 10:1. Of couse, in the early stages, chariots with double-flanking-promotions provides this already, but it is not that flavorful like throwing in a bunch of meele units, marching steady 1 tile per turn to the enemy.
The possibility of deliviring assured damage (e.g. 5 - 10% or a fixed health number) could be done through a special promotion (granted for free or have to be chosen like a normal promotion), for a special unit type only, or as an hidden build-in-mechanic. Also, it could be something like 0-10% assured damage. Thus, it they would have 5% assured damage in average.
To compensate - and for the flavor of simple units - there could be some nerf in research (however, with masses of units they will be nerfed by maintenance anyway).
Some ideas here are:
- reduce commerce by 1
- reduce commerce by 1 if there is only 1
- increase research cost for "non-orcish" techs
- nerf research-buildings for orcs (e.g.: library with less +% and/or viewer specialists)
another helpful feature would be the possibility of setting relais points for newly built units, so the cities behind can generate a stream of new units to be delivered to the front. That way, enemy lands can be cluttered with orcs quite visibly, too.
EDIT: to make "streaming in of troops" also in respect of combat somehow useful, there must be an alternative for the all-in-one-turn-attack on cities or units on the path. Therefore, i would suggest the following: if a lost attack can deliver damage, the damaged units gets a "wither" promotion. That would be a negative promotion in fact, reducing the strength permanently by % (or an absolute number). These wither promotions then can be accumulated (or changed from lower to the highest). For example there are 9 promotions ranging from -10% to -90%.
For the calculations: If an attack would drops the helath of the defending unit to x% (with x > 0), instead, a respective wither promotion (rounded up or down) is applied. A softer version could apply only e.g. half of the damage as a wither promotion: when a lost attack would drop to 80%, instead, defending unit gets a -10% wither promotion applied.
Further, removing wither promotions (if possible at all) could be possible in exchange for one or more of the following
- loosing fortification bonus
- inactivity (not being able to defend)
- a temporal defense malus
The removal could be done on the basis of the wither level. So, for example, there would be 1 turn of inactivity/no fortification bonus/... per 10% wither level removed. Removing a wither promotion could also be restricted to one level per turn. However, this could be somewhat tedious to play with.
great mod btw!
That'll be great! Just some tiles around some one mountain, I guess.
There are a couple of other things, though. I want some civs to start in their respective environments (dunmer - near ashlands; bosmer - in forests, argonians - in jungles) - is it possible?
I think it's overly complicated; they already have units production bonuses, so I hope they'll be able to overwhelm with huge cheap forces. Reducing maintenance needs some coding though
.
Martimus
Aggressive Tactician
I have been reading through this thread for a while now, overall, the whole mod looks great...but, there are some issues.
FIRST OF ALL, (Note: I am a HUGE fan of Argonians, second favorite to Nords.) Argonians do not live in jungles! They live in swamps. If you could add that terrain type that would be great. Secondly, since I am a huge Skyrim fan, what about the Forsworn. I know they might not be the greatest of civilizations in Tamriel, (not to mention their not exactly civilized) but I think they are worth putting in.
Another thing, I think "The Hist" should be the religion for the argonian ppl, because it is a religion. If you ever got an Argonian mercenary in Skyrim (example: Derkeethus) they always say "May the Hist guide us." I think that is a pretty major factor.
One last question, will their be an event that will cause the Red Mountain in the province of Morrowind to explode? Because that was a major event that allowed the Argonians to break away from the Empire and take over both Blackmarsh and Morrowind in the first place.
Another thing, (I'm done w/ Argonians) it says that the mountain kingdom of Orsinium has been sacked and rebuilt many times throughout history in Skyrim, I was wondering if there is anyway to make barbarians attack Orsinium randomly throughout the game? I think this might be possible w/ python, but I am not sure.
Another thing, I find Orc Hunters a lot throughout Skyrim when I play, perhaps you could make Orc Hunters an unique unit for Orcs? I suggest lowering their strength by one, but give them a really good bonus vs. animal units. Also, a production reduction (hehheh, that was kind of funny...sorry) would be realistic.
Last but not least, could you make a city ruins like improvement labled "Dwemer Ruins". It would act alot like goody huts except they would spawn Falmer every, say, two turns, or something like that. Also, there would be four different Falmer units, Falmer Archers, Falmer Swordsmen, Falmer Axemen, and Falmer Mages. They would spawn randomly from Dwemer Ruins a lot like how random units would spawn from Mongolian Camps in the Genghis Khan mod in Warlords. I think that would be pretty sweet too. In the way they would act like goody huts is that if a unit from a civilization captures a ruin, either of these three things would happen:
-The unit would get a boat load of experience. (Dwemer archives reveal combat techniques, clearing out the Falmer/Chauras in the ruins)
-The civ would get access to one-two techs. (Dwemer knowledge/archives)
-The civ would get a lot of gold. (Dwemer artifacts, etc.)
I know that I have been typing a lot of stuff on this mod but I keep finding things that I reccomend changes on, etc.
The flags are ok, but, I suggest some different flags for some of the civilizations, like the Argonian flag kind of matches up, but maybe the flag used for a Khanate in the Ghengis Khan mod in Warlords would look better. In that mod, the flag is green, but I do not remember the exact civ it belonged to. The one for Valenwood doesn't really make any sense to me, I mean, there aren't any buffalows in Valenwood as far as I know. If there are, please correct me, but, maybe the flag for the Parthians in the GreekWorld mod in the Vanilla Civ would work better.
Another major problem is that DAWNSTAR IS NOT THE CAPITAL OF SKYRIM!!! I really suggest changing to either Windhelm or Solitude because that choice of Capital is really pushing my buttons. I know this might seem a bit extreme, but, its just a fact that there really isn't anything in Dawnstar.
One last thing, (I know this is a lot, but hang in there) the High Elves do not look like high elves. They look like asians. (Sorry, I am not racist, but its true.) I am not sure if this subject has come up in earlier pages of this thread, but, if I was walking through Skyrim and some High Elves from the Aldemeri Dominion came and attacked me, I wouldn't start laughing while saying loudly, "You look like asians!". (Again, no offence intended). But, I would be either running (If I was a noob) or I would fight back boldly. I honestly do not have any ideas for High Elves, but, maybe they could look like the Wood Elves you have (Which are fantastic looking and right on!) and change their clothes/height/hair/face/anything you think needs changing.
I know this seems like a lot, but, if you need any help w/ XML work, I would be happy to lend a hand. (Note: I use 7-zip and I am not sure if this would affect anything when unpacking/repacking XML files and such...)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, what you have been doing right!
The unit graphics for the Orcs/Nords/Wood Elves are really amazing. I like the Argonian graphics as well. The civics are really creative and fit the world of Tamriel well. The map for the scenario looks fantastic. Finally, everything else I didn't mention is really good!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, some quick questions:
1. Will there be Werewolves and Vampires in this mod? It would be pretty interesting if I was invading Skyrim as the Argonians and ran into one or a whole pack of Werewolves. Also, Vampires might be a little lame, but, the concept itself is pretty cool.
2. Will there be Bandits in this mod?
3. If there will be Bandits, will they be racially diverse? (Example: Not all of the Bandits are Nords.)
4. Will forts be a major part of this mod? (Example: Forts can be named, produce culture, etc.)
5. Is there any chance that any of my ideas/reccomendations will make it into another patch/version?
6. Do you need any assistance with some XML work?
7. Are you planning on adding civs/other things to later patches? If so, do you need help w/ the XML work for that?
Besides that, this mod looks amazing! keep up the work and, good luck!
FIRST OF ALL, (Note: I am a HUGE fan of Argonians, second favorite to Nords.) Argonians do not live in jungles! They live in swamps. If you could add that terrain type that would be great. Secondly, since I am a huge Skyrim fan, what about the Forsworn. I know they might not be the greatest of civilizations in Tamriel, (not to mention their not exactly civilized) but I think they are worth putting in.
Another thing, I think "The Hist" should be the religion for the argonian ppl, because it is a religion. If you ever got an Argonian mercenary in Skyrim (example: Derkeethus) they always say "May the Hist guide us." I think that is a pretty major factor.
One last question, will their be an event that will cause the Red Mountain in the province of Morrowind to explode? Because that was a major event that allowed the Argonians to break away from the Empire and take over both Blackmarsh and Morrowind in the first place.
Another thing, (I'm done w/ Argonians) it says that the mountain kingdom of Orsinium has been sacked and rebuilt many times throughout history in Skyrim, I was wondering if there is anyway to make barbarians attack Orsinium randomly throughout the game? I think this might be possible w/ python, but I am not sure.
Another thing, I find Orc Hunters a lot throughout Skyrim when I play, perhaps you could make Orc Hunters an unique unit for Orcs? I suggest lowering their strength by one, but give them a really good bonus vs. animal units. Also, a production reduction (hehheh, that was kind of funny...sorry) would be realistic.
Last but not least, could you make a city ruins like improvement labled "Dwemer Ruins". It would act alot like goody huts except they would spawn Falmer every, say, two turns, or something like that. Also, there would be four different Falmer units, Falmer Archers, Falmer Swordsmen, Falmer Axemen, and Falmer Mages. They would spawn randomly from Dwemer Ruins a lot like how random units would spawn from Mongolian Camps in the Genghis Khan mod in Warlords. I think that would be pretty sweet too. In the way they would act like goody huts is that if a unit from a civilization captures a ruin, either of these three things would happen:
-The unit would get a boat load of experience. (Dwemer archives reveal combat techniques, clearing out the Falmer/Chauras in the ruins)
-The civ would get access to one-two techs. (Dwemer knowledge/archives)
-The civ would get a lot of gold. (Dwemer artifacts, etc.)
I know that I have been typing a lot of stuff on this mod but I keep finding things that I reccomend changes on, etc.
The flags are ok, but, I suggest some different flags for some of the civilizations, like the Argonian flag kind of matches up, but maybe the flag used for a Khanate in the Ghengis Khan mod in Warlords would look better. In that mod, the flag is green, but I do not remember the exact civ it belonged to. The one for Valenwood doesn't really make any sense to me, I mean, there aren't any buffalows in Valenwood as far as I know. If there are, please correct me, but, maybe the flag for the Parthians in the GreekWorld mod in the Vanilla Civ would work better.
Another major problem is that DAWNSTAR IS NOT THE CAPITAL OF SKYRIM!!! I really suggest changing to either Windhelm or Solitude because that choice of Capital is really pushing my buttons. I know this might seem a bit extreme, but, its just a fact that there really isn't anything in Dawnstar.
One last thing, (I know this is a lot, but hang in there) the High Elves do not look like high elves. They look like asians. (Sorry, I am not racist, but its true.) I am not sure if this subject has come up in earlier pages of this thread, but, if I was walking through Skyrim and some High Elves from the Aldemeri Dominion came and attacked me, I wouldn't start laughing while saying loudly, "You look like asians!". (Again, no offence intended). But, I would be either running (If I was a noob) or I would fight back boldly. I honestly do not have any ideas for High Elves, but, maybe they could look like the Wood Elves you have (Which are fantastic looking and right on!) and change their clothes/height/hair/face/anything you think needs changing.
I know this seems like a lot, but, if you need any help w/ XML work, I would be happy to lend a hand. (Note: I use 7-zip and I am not sure if this would affect anything when unpacking/repacking XML files and such...)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, what you have been doing right!
The unit graphics for the Orcs/Nords/Wood Elves are really amazing. I like the Argonian graphics as well. The civics are really creative and fit the world of Tamriel well. The map for the scenario looks fantastic. Finally, everything else I didn't mention is really good!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, some quick questions:
1. Will there be Werewolves and Vampires in this mod? It would be pretty interesting if I was invading Skyrim as the Argonians and ran into one or a whole pack of Werewolves. Also, Vampires might be a little lame, but, the concept itself is pretty cool.
2. Will there be Bandits in this mod?
3. If there will be Bandits, will they be racially diverse? (Example: Not all of the Bandits are Nords.)
4. Will forts be a major part of this mod? (Example: Forts can be named, produce culture, etc.)
5. Is there any chance that any of my ideas/reccomendations will make it into another patch/version?
6. Do you need any assistance with some XML work?
7. Are you planning on adding civs/other things to later patches? If so, do you need help w/ the XML work for that?
Besides that, this mod looks amazing! keep up the work and, good luck!
thanks for the input!
I see it as a combination jungles\ jungle marshes like around the amazon river, it's considered jungle, jungles contain a lot of swampy terrains:
http://www.wilderness-survival.net/tropical-2.php
I would assume black marsh would contain a bit of these 7 types of jungle (just a bit more hostile
) Well, there're still bretons
If someday I'll (or someone else) make some sort of specific scenario, they may be worth it, but in this kind of general game starting in ME I don't think they belong.
A specific religion would kill it's purpose given the game's mechanics. They were created\ formed by the hist; it wouldn't make sense for them to try to convert others to their religion, or to convert themselves to an other religion. So their uniqueness and dependancy on the hist is better represented by unique bonuses\ buildings, while they can still worship aedra\ daedra\ whatever.
There were many crazy hugely cataclyzmic events in tamriel's history (thrassian plaque, umbriel)... it's really dififcult to implement any of those.
However, maybe in the future (still, I don't really know how to code things like these)
I think the Orcs are in a disadvantage as it is
I don't know, maybe replacing scout? explorer?
That's actually a nice idea. However I need to think how to logically make sense of it: the game starts in merethic era, when dwemer and falmer are still supposed to exist... Here they don't, plus civs can research "some kind of technologies assotiated with dwemer, including numidium", as if dwemer never existed, and instead other races developed their ideas and technologies... so dwemer ruins cannot be... But oh well, maybe
I messed up somehting? It's supposed to be a tree (for valenwood) :O
Cities are all messed up, I'm fixing them these days. I mean already fixed them for the next version, just looking and inventing more city names for the 4 southern races.
I know, but I'm not a graphics man, so the most I can do is reskinning existing units and making some minor changes. I couldn't find anything fit in vanilla\ database\ FFH2\ cavemen2cosmos. I think I used asians only for a couple of units though. Well, still, first and foremost in graphics are the khajiits.
thanks! Most of the problems however are python and graphics. XML I can do myself, and is mostly done anyway.
Thanks! that good to hear. It took me a lot of time to find and choose them, and reskin some. Some of the dunmer I'm not happy though (I tried reskinning some units, and some look bad)... and some of the mages (not a lot of mages for download, mostly from FFH2)
1 - 3. I need yet to edit animals and barbarians, replace some... maybeNow, some quick questions:
1. Will there be Werewolves and Vampires in this mod? It would be pretty interesting if I was invading Skyrim as the Argonians and ran into one or a whole pack of Werewolves. Also, Vampires might be a little lame, but, the concept itself is pretty cool.
2. Will there be Bandits in this mod?
3. If there will be Bandits, will they be racially diverse? (Example: Not all of the Bandits are Nords.)
4. Will forts be a major part of this mod? (Example: Forts can be named, produce culture, etc.)
5. Is there any chance that any of my ideas/reccomendations will make it into another patch/version?
6. Do you need any assistance with some XML work?
7. Are you planning on adding civs/other things to later patches? If so, do you need help w/ the XML work for that?
Besides that, this mod looks amazing! keep up the work and, good luck!
4. Forts unchanged
5. Maybe, I plan on expanding it, however it'll take time, and first some other major issues are needed to take care of (leaderheads, khajiit graphics, various things (I have a list somewhere)). And there are real life issues... next few months are busy.
6.Probably not XML... mostly graphics and coding (both of which I can't do much)
7. Maybe. But, then again, it'll need to wait.
@Martimus: remember, just like RFC did, this mod brings variety, but also, as RFC did, it also has to have a focus on making gameplay diverse and fun, so basing it too strict on the elder scrolls series might end up giving a mod so strict it's no longer fun to play. Gameplay should be #1 on the list, how similar it is to the Elder Scrolls mod #2
vktj
Warlord
- Joined
- May 6, 2012
- Messages
- 237
Hey, I think it's great all of this work is being done with this mod! Just so people know, since this was brought up earlier in the thread, modifying Perfect World to have different types of starts for different players is non-trivial. It would, alas, require pretty much rewriting all of the "find starts for the player" code.
- Sam
- Sam
darn... another mistake lol
thanks for the bug report though
uhm... if you want to fix, go to mods\tamriel\assets\xml\civilizations\civ4Traitinfos.xml and change
<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
in too places: line 18 under TRAIT_ARGONIAN and line 562 under TRAIT_RESOURCEFUL
(the zero at the middle is misssing... need to add it)
sorry...
O jee I fixed this same thing earlier for orcs, but missed 2 other instances :O:O )
- more bugs notices are appreciated
thanks for the bug report though
uhm... if you want to fix, go to mods\tamriel\assets\xml\civilizations\civ4Traitinfos.xml and change
<iGreatPeopleRateModifier>0</iGreatPeopleRateModifier>
in too places: line 18 under TRAIT_ARGONIAN and line 562 under TRAIT_RESOURCEFUL
(the zero at the middle is misssing... need to add it)
sorry...
O jee I fixed this same thing earlier for orcs, but missed 2 other instances :O:O )- more bugs notices are appreciated
Much better, thank you. I also noticed that the tech needed for clearing jungles isn't on the tech tree (maybe I'm just missing it lol). I went onto world builder and it's there though. Anyways, this is the best mod I have ever played! Put 2 of my favourite games together
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