Electronics Factory problem

[defiler]

Hi guys
We always had the unique buildings replacing something on the same era of the original building but now we have Japan with Electronics Factory
Although it fits very well the civ, what are your thoughts on the reality of it on the gameplay ?
While every civ is having coal smoked workers on 16hrs workdays for cheap products, Japan will have clean rooms doing tape recorders ? Does it even makes sense electronics factory when you don't even discovered electricity or electronics ? At Civ V those techs were at least 3 tiers ahead of industrialization.
Or Japan will have his factory with Electronics instead of Industrialization ? It would be realistic since its ability Meiji Restoration was in fact the late Industrialization of Japan. On that sense, would be fun to play Japan having this gap of time without factories while the others civ having this advantage in production ?
What are your thoughts ?

 

[Krajzen]

I have the same worries as you, and I've seen other people expressing this concern.

It is really weird.

My yet another problem with Electronics Factory is the fact it should appear in very late modern era. Who the hell needs more culture points in civ5 few techs before end of tech tree?

So either Electronic Factory is ridiculously available in '19th century' industrial era, or it is useless.

 

[King Jason]

It will appear in the industrial age with other factories for sure. Also everyone likes to forget that it provides bonus culture and production.

However, another alternative is that Japan unlocks regular factories in the industrial era, and they all transform into electronics factories in when the appropriate tech is discovered later.

Who the hell needs more culture points in civ5 few techs before end of tech tree?

Broadcast towers came online late and were far from useless. I don't imagine an Electronics factory would be any more useless than a film studio and it's equivalent which would also come online in the modern era. We don't know the details of late-game culture and it's associated victory yet.

(Not that I imagine the factory bonus would be as strong a Film studio)

 

[m15a]

In BNW, the modern era (where electronics is discovered) is the third to last era. (And, BTW, electricity was in the industrial era, not 3 tiers past it.) There's plenty of time to use a building in the modern era. I believe we only know of two buildings in the industrial zone: workshops and factories, and we know from past games that there is often a production building that comes later than factories (Civ V has 2 or 3), so electronics factory can be in the third slot.

 

[moysturfurmer]

In BNW, the modern era (where electronics is discovered) is the third to last era. (And, BTW, electricity was in the industrial era, not 3 tiers past it.) There's plenty of time to use a building in the modern era. I believe we only know of two buildings in the industrial zone: workshops and factories, and we know from past games that there is often a production building that comes later than factories (Civ V has 2 or 3), so electronics factory can be in the third slot.

It's the 2nd. The article about Japan had a picture of a Japanese Industrial district with a Workshop, Electronics Factory, & Nuclear Power Plant

 

[m15a]

It's the 2nd. The article about Japan had a picture of a Japanese Industrial district with a Workshop, Electronics Factory, & Nuclear Power Plant

Spoiler :

Well, then

It could still come later than factories, since you have multiple options for building slots. But even if it's at the same tech as factories . . . well, it's still only slightly weirder than the BNW tech tree in that era?

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

I totally can see an ndustrial zone with workshop, factory and coal plant !

 

[Liex]

As a Japanese exclusive, the Electronic Factory itself is a bit weird. It's alright, and I don't have a better suggestion, but it's a bit weird.

 

[Zaarin]

As a Japanese exclusive, the Electronic Factory itself is a bit weird. It's alright, and I don't have a better suggestion, but it's a bit weird.

I know they were shooting for representing modern Japan (which makes sense), but I probably would have suggested the torii replacing the monument and with similar effects to Ethiopia's stele from Civ5 (i.e., + as well as the usual + ).

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

As a Japanese exclusive, the Electronic Factory itself is a bit weird. It's alright, and I don't have a better suggestion, but it's a bit weird.

Japanese firms like Sony and Akai dominated personal electronics in the 1960s and 1970s, but this also illustrates a potential problem with both the building and Civ VI's handling of both the Tech Tree and 'amenities' or 'luxuries'.
1. The Electronics Factory as a Japanese 'Special' belongs not in the Modern Era, but in the Atomic Era - which makes it an even later structure, and reinforces the question of What's It Good For So Late. On the other hand, hopefully the Late Game has been beefed up in Civ VI, because it was one of the limper aspects of Civ V...
2. The Electronics Factory makes even less sense as an Industrial Era building: the Japanese Electronics or Electrical industry was insignificant both in volume and quality before WWII. Therefore, the building will be either completely mis-placed in the Tech Tree, or Japan will do without factories for about two Eras, or the Electronics Factory will be a replacement or Upgrade to a regular Factory for Japan.

- Now, that last idea is not inherently bad. I can think of a couple of other 'special factories' that would enhance the Modern-Atomic Eras: The Automobile Factory, for instance, complete with its national Wonder counterpart, the River Rouge Complex.

3. Having the Japanese electronics industry or Factory provide Culture, Production or whatever completely misses a point about Luxury Resources or 'Amenities' that Civ has missed consistently of all of its iterations, and will apparently continue to miss: since the beginning of the Industrial Era, most 'Luxuries' or Happiness Producing Goods have been Manufactured, not Natural. Therefore, the Electronics Factory should provide, possibly in addition to generalized Culture and/or production bonuses, a new Amenity: Consumer Electronics. This can be traded or used to increase Happiness, just like the earlier Natural Resources such as Whales or Ivory (which, of course, would both be Banned by the Modern Era in an historical game!)
Other historical 'manufactured trade luxuries' might be:
Personal Automobiles (see Automobile Factories above)
Mass Produced Clothing or Cloth (the original Industrial Good at the very beginning of the Industrial Era)
Media such as Movies/TV Shows or Music - these were in earlier Civs as the Broadway and Hollywood 'Wonders', and should be returned - but, based on the US 'Film Studio' Unique, probably won't be.

I presume we'll have to wait until at least Civ VII for a legitimate system of manufactured luxury/amenity goods and trade system reform...

 

[isau]

We can't possibly guess whether late game culture is useful at this stage. But given that in this iterations Culture plays a role like Science has in past Civ games I'm leaning toward "it will be."

 

[SupremacyKing2]

I am assuming firaxis has already solved this problem. They must have given some thought to how the electronics factory would work before including it as japan's UB.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Yes they solved it alright. The firaxis way. That is I'm pretty damn sure it's just a factory replacement, nothing to it. It's not like they care much about inconsistency. You can get gatling guns before you have anything more sophisticated than a musket (before riflemen and cavalry). Your caravels have cannons before you discover gunpowder. Etc.

What I hope for is that besides a production bonus it will get a significant culture bonus (broadcast tower style) to properly reflect the impact of Japanese consumer electronics in 20th century.

 

[Socrates99]

Yes they solved it alright. The firaxis way. That is I'm pretty damn sure it's just a factory replacement, nothing to it. It's not like they care much about inconsistency. You can get gatling guns before you have anything more sophisticated than a musket (before riflemen and cavalry). Your caravels have cannons before you discover gunpowder. Etc.

What I hope for is that besides a production bonus it will get a significant culture bonus (broadcast tower style) to properly reflect the impact of Japanese consumer electronics in 20th century.

Pretty sure he's right. I'm just gonna relax and ignore minor inconsistencies.

The split tech tree probably means there will be tons of "B before A" situations. Probably better to not put too much thought into it.

 

[gfeier]

Pretty sure he's right. I'm just gonna relax and ignore minor inconsistencies.

The split tech tree probably means there will be tons of "B before A" situations. Probably better to not put too much thought into it.

Putting too much thought into minor details is the heart and soul of this forum.

 

[Socrates99]

Putting too much thought into minor details is the heart and soul of this forum.

I know. Just seems like that thought about minor details is better spent on gameplay/mechanics. I have a feeling the split tech tree is going to give some people a migraine if they focus too much on this aspect of "realism."

 

[Erudain]

Natural Resources such as Whales or Ivory (which, of course, would both be Banned by the Modern Era in an historical game!)

Well....it's Japan after all...<snip> you dolphin and whale!!!!

Moderator Action: Please make your point without swearing.
Swear word snipped.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[AriochIV]

Having such a modern building appear in the Industrial age will be slightly weird and anachronistic, but probably not much more so than some other elements (such as the modern troop transports that appear in Civ V as soon as you hit the Industrial age (even though you are still in the age of sail), or the sail-powered trade ships that continue well into the modern age before they're replaced by container ships).

 

[Metecury]

I think this is due to having fewer techs and consequently shorter eras. The other negative side of it is that we will also get fewer units.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I think this is due to having fewer techs and consequently shorter eras. The other negative side of it is that we will also get fewer units.

Fewer techs have nothing to do with length of eras - it depends on the number of eras. If the number of tech per era stays the same, fewer techs actually means longer eras. Just a note.

Also, I wouldn't call fewer units a negative effect - it's quite subjective. For me the upgrades in Civ5 were too frequent and on most speeds, you were unable to taste each unit.