Elemental Coming Soon!!

I doubt that casual gamers would enjoy this game at all. The game is confusing and has way too many moving parts that are inadequately explained and not really tied together in any meaningful way.

It is improving with each patch, but I still don't find it very fun. I played for about half an hour last night before suiciding into a neighbor's city (though of course I didn't realize it was suicide - usually my king reappears in my city when he is defeated, though I guess this was different since I was fighting another player? Hell if I know). Anyway, I quit Elemental and played Dwarf Fortress instead, so that should tell you something.

Tells me that you have a very high tolerence for tedium... ;) (j/k)

anyway, if your sov dies outside of your controlled territory he dies for good. That game mechanic has been explained on the elemental forums, but I guess not anywhere in the game.

Oh well, live and learn eh?

But to your point about it not being much fun. Yep, I don't really know why anyone would think it's much fun, after the initial learning curve and 'wow a new FTBS game' has worn off.
 
anyway, if your sov dies outside of your controlled territory he dies for good.

Unless they've changed the mechanic recently, that's not completely true. I've had numerous times where my Sovereign was defeated by wandering monsters or while on a quest and he just popped back to my city. *shrug*
 
No, the mechanic is if you die in ENEMY lands, you die for good. It's explained in Tutorial AKA badly written campaign.

And yeah I don't find anything really cool about the game, I don't know why.

And I often play Dwarf Fortress after I close Elemental, so it says nothing to me.
 
Oh I must have read it incorrectly.

No biggie. Just don't die in enemy lands I guess ;)
 
Okay, I've just seen it:
http://forums.elementalgame.com/394855/page/2/#2753014

Frogboy said:
(I'm up north on vacation typing on an extremely slow connection so bear with me)

I don't think people yet fully realize the completeness of Stardock's fail on Elementa's launch.

I'm going to write more about this but not only did we think v1.05 was ready for everyone but we felt v1.0 was too. That's the level of disconnect/poor judgment on our part we're talking about.

If the game had come out in February, it would still have been a disastrous launch because lack of time wasn't the issue. It was blindness, sheer blindness. We felt the game was finished. And I speak of v1.0, not v1.05. Blindness.

Brad summed it up. They basically didn't see the game as an unfinished, unpolished empty project. They just had a bad design if they thought that it's finished in its current state. Come on, FFH2 civilopedia has 1000 times more lore than their whole game. Although I was more worried that it didn't have a good moddability (you cannot replace/remove existing stuff, only add new) and poor AI for a game without Multiplayer.

Now when they see it, let's wait. Maybe they will work on it more now.


Too bad they postpone Multiplayer even more. I hoped at least to play some PvP fun in this game which lacks RP value for now.
http://forums.elementalgame.com/394652

I just don't get all the hate around forums and blogs. Sure, guys failed, but we had this before with Stardock so I wouldn't be surprised about that. They apologise and work on it, let's give them some time. They are people too after all.
 
Stop Stop Stop. And I'm not just saying that because it takes like half a minute to load up a page from here.

There is a phrase they use in the movie industry "Kill your darlings".

The person green lighting a production should NEVER EVER be the one working on said production. Writing AI on GalCiv or helping design the game mechanics on Sins of a Solar Empire kept me at a reasonable distance from the actual GAME.

The problem with Elemental was that I am in love with it. To me, it's not just a game. It's a whole world that we can expand and build on. During the months of July and August, when I was working on the game non-stop, I literally had a hard time distinguishing the difference between the GAME, the MODS and the future. It all merged into one fuzzy centrality.

Stardock will be working on Elemental for years to come. Literally. Let me be specific: Stardock will NOT release a new game next year. It'll all be Elemental related. Releasing it in August wasn't a financial decision. Hell, Stardock's games aren't funded by PC game revenue. I wanted you guys to get the game ASAP.

I think most people would agree that Elemental has tremendous potential. The reason it was released when it was was because we thought it had reached that level ready to be shipped. When you're living, breathing and eating something 24/7, your perspective changes.

From a personal pride point of view, it would be much easier to say "Whohaah, my jet fuel requires Elemental to ship in August!". To give you guys an idea of how certain I was that the game was ready for everyone to ship, I didn't just give copies to reviewers, I sent copies to my friends who used to be reviewers (long story but the gaming media has changed a lot in the past 18 months) because I was dying for them to see this masterpiece.

Tom Francis's debiliating PC Gamer preview only was possible was because I personally compiled a version for him (of v1.0) for him to see because the v1.0 version doesn't work outside North America (region checking). In other words, that negative PC Gamer UK preview was only possible because I was so confident in Elemental's readiness that I bypassed Stardock's PR people to get a friend of mine in Europe a copy.

I don't think there should be much disagreement that Stardock absolutely blew it with the launch. Holy cow that should be obvious by now. In my mind, anything less than "game of the year" (in a year with Starcraft 2 and Civ V in it) means we totally screwed up.

The real question, and the question I think every single person who shelled out $50+ for this game should ask is this: What is Stardock going to do to make me whole?

And the answer, I hope, is in the coming months because, like I said, most of Stardock's revenue doesn't come from making PC games.

Having my idiocy shown on a global stage is humbling but probably very constructive for PC gamers. I think most people would agree that Elemental is a fantastic game -- once you get past the idiotic UI decisions, balance, etc.

We are very fortunate to be in a position to make the situation right. We're our own publisher. We don't have the same financial constraints as other companies so we can spend months or even years if necessary to do right by you guys.

Hopefully, this message will make it up to the forums, (because it was long) but if it does, please take it as it is meant. I failed you. I failed you because I love what we're doing and out of sheer hubris -- that the basic law of programmer != guy who decides if it is done somehow didn't apply to me. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Elemental is getting pasted in reviews and deserves that pasting. I'm glad many people are having fun but our eyes have been opened. Like I said before, I'll be writing a lot more about this when I get back to an Internet connection that measures bandwidth with an M instead of a K.

wow, that is precisely what i wanted to hear:
-comprehension of the bad state of the game
-major support over at least the next year

i really feared that stardock would say: the game is fine^^ i am so glad they are still living in reality, suck it up and work on fixing stuff.
 
Yeah, that "we are fine" state and banning of many beta testers which tried to reason Brad were really worrying news for me. The fact that Frogboy banned Dale was also quite sad and honestly I was like "WTH, this guy knows about game design, he just tries to help". Now it's not as grim as before, and I have hopes.
 
I must say, if you are paying the equivalent of $5 for a new PC game, I suspect you are paying a counterfeiter/pirate, or else you must be getting them 2-3 years later. Otherwise there would be a thriving re-importation business.
But yes, new games in the US sell for $30-60 American dollars.
(This was to Deon about prices in Russia, not the Elemental game)
 
I must say, if you are paying the equivalent of $5 for a new PC game, I suspect you are paying a counterfeiter/pirate, or else you must be getting them 2-3 years later. Otherwise there would be a thriving re-importation business.
But yes, new games in the US sell for $30-60 American dollars.

But there IS a 'thriving' re-importation. Just check ebay for russian pc games. Which brings us back on-topic, that's actually how I got GalCivII -- I didn't miss there coming no manual at all since it would be russian anyways.
 
It's not a conterfeiter product, it's a licensed translated product. The problem is that they come 1-2 years later, that must be it :).

Well, that makes sense; that's why I said new games originally. I do that to myself, waiting for the price to drop as it does quick for software. Although I did buy Civ4 & BtS soon after release.

I was thinking of all the knock-off software for sale in China when I brought up pirate copies. It's quite open there, I hear, so I thought it might be so in Russia.
 
is Elemental the game the FFH creators were making?
is it CIV/ FFH2-like city builder, turn based game?
i looked round their site, couldn't find general discussion forum to ask, also was shocked to see their graphics look so childish.
 
I've looked at Elemental, visited the forums and viewed vids of the gameplay. I can say it's an interesting idea, but I'm not quite sure if I like how it's being undertaken. I don't plan on buying the game, certainly not until it was "fixed" at any rate.

It seems what they did is made the most common mistake of any product creators - They drank their own Kool Aid.

They were so enthused with their product that they didn't critically review it themselves. They took a design doc and figured "This is what the game is supposed to be." and just made that. Well, that doesn't always work very well in practice. It can effect any company, in any business sector. Some of the biggest goofs in commercial history can be said to be entirely due to the company drinking its own Kool Aid and not critically reviewing their own product.

Example: The idea of "War" as a card game where a deck is split between two players and then each player lays down a card with the higher card "winning" the combat sounds kind of interesting, right? (Well, work with me here.. it's an example.) So, the game is developed, coded, fixed so it will work, storyline is written and finally it's packaged up and shipped. Thousands of man hours and promotional poster-makers are dedicated towards one goal; one all-consuming purpose - To make "War" the most awesomest game ever!

On release day, they find out it sucks rocks because it simply is not fun to play. It has cool graphics, a great points scoring system, wonderful artwork and good story writing. But, they allowed all of that to go to their head and mask the truth - The card game "War" is stupid, boring, repetitive and without any true entertainment value.

I'm not saying Elemental is like that. I have no idea, I haven't played it. But, from the responses from a great many people who do play it, it obviously has some serious flaws. Many of these flaws are basic gameplay elements in the game's genre and are simple things that anyone who wasn't wearing blinders should have seen. But, the developers didn't see them. They believed in their own mythology surrounding how "cool" the game was going to be. They drank the Kool Aid and were undone.

I'm glad to see that they maintain commitment to making the game better. That's wonderful. But, you can never cash a check until you have it. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions, so my ex-wife would say. Until I see the "Patch-that-fixes-everything-and-makes-the-game-awesome-omgz.3.140.exe" get released, I'm not going to believe their claims of support. Sorry, I'm jaded that way. I'll give them an A+ for honesty and communication and wait to grade them on results when they've actually achieved some.
 
Regarding the long long quote from frogboy, that tesb so kindly provided:

I'm a bit surprised that he comes out like this about the Elemental fiasco.
Especially since Brad usually reacts to criticism by flaming his critics personally, dismissing them as trolls and such. At least in the various forums.

And I suspect that his tendency to childishly diss opposing views on issues he is strongly involved with carries over into his management style, making his employees hesitant to offer honest criticism - after all, who wants to be the bearer of bad news when the only reward is a verbal trashing?

I highly doubt that his developers (and whoever was involved in quality control) were as blind (as he himself put it) to the sad state of v1.05, never mind v1.00.

And then there were the no-so-bad reviews of the game, which nearly completely failed to address the non-bug related shortcomings of Elemental, which makes me very wary of ever giving a damn about what those guys would have to say 'professionally' about any game they care to review.
Since Stardock doesn't have (afaik) a history of bribing or coercing reviewers I can only conclude that said reviewers are at the very least incompetent or too worried about greasing relationships to game companies.

And as Brad has noticed: Others have noticed that the game has potential.
Which is true.
Now do something with that potential within a year.
And then figure out how to get someone to buy a year old game renowned for being everything bad you've read about here and elsewhere.
 
I'm just laughing at the "abomination of a UI" thing. I preordered this game because GalCiv 2 is really the only game ever made with a decent AI, and after a year of beta I still can't see what the problem is.

UI is not the same as AI, but thanks for playin.

I'm a bit surprised that he comes out like this about the Elemental fiasco.
Especially since Brad usually reacts to criticism by flaming his critics personally, dismissing them as trolls and such. At least in the various forums.

And I suspect that his tendency to childishly diss opposing views on issues he is strongly involved with carries over into his management style,

Too bad he didn't swallow his pride a year ago and listen to his beta testers. Or two months ago, or two weeks ago. If the only thing you use beta testers for is to squash bugs, well, you're doing it wrong.
 
I think, for starters, the first expansion pack for Elemental - Book 2, will have to be given away for free to the people who already bought the game.

In my mind, that's a START. So, anyone who sticks with is going to get at least one free expansion pack out of it. And it won't be some piddly "look, it's a new campaign". Think Dark Avatar level expansion.
first expansion will be free for all people who bough elemental :) yay
 
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