Elemental: War of Magic (Stardock's fantasy game) announced!

*sigh*

I just Keel does a good job with this thing.
 
I just got my copy of PCGamer yesterday; they did a review of Elemental. Tom Francis wrote the review. He gave it a rating of '70'. Certainly not an endorsement, but MUCH better than I anticipated from reading thorough this thread. Of course, everyone here is entitled to an opinion, but I do have a lot of respect for PC Gamer.

But looking under the hood, at the actual article he wrote, he mimics the position of msot of the people writing on this forum (who left theri discussion to the game!) He mentions some really bad AI and overpowered combinations. He also states the game was released too early, and that he wasn't using the original game which he couldn't load, but a later patch.

So I think the 70 rating is for the fun of discovery and what it can be.

Best wishes,

Bruenor
 
(the last time I mention this. We had a conversation about china. I remember PPQ_Purple being part of it, but who else? Please PM me, I want to continue this insightful discussion)

there was a discussion about china in this thread?
strange, I completely missed that. However, I got a pm which singled me out as the guy who derailed this thread, apparently.
Man, I'm so good at derailing that I didn't even notice where the train went.

Anyway, the last pcgamer review I read bascially concluded that people would better heed Frogboys advice and stay well away from Elemental:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/08/25/elementals-disastrous-launch-stay-well-away/
If 70 means 'stay away' then I'd like to know what kind of games earn a below-50 rating...
 
there was a discussion about china in this thread?
strange, I completely missed that. However, I got a pm which singled me out as the guy who derailed this thread, apparently.
Man, I'm so good at derailing that I didn't even notice where the train went.

Anyway, the last pcgamer review I read bascially concluded that people would better heed Frogboys advice and stay well away from Elemental:
http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/08/25/elementals-disastrous-launch-stay-well-away/
If 70 means 'stay away' then I'd like to know what kind of games earn a below-50 rating...

70 isn't 'stay away'. Its kind of a 'not great'. There were 3 or so lower rated games in the same issue.

Best wishes,

Breunor
 
I think it was a 70 for "effort" and not a representation of the game at release.

otherwise it would have been a 40. For the four hours of enjoyment you get before you realize "oh, this isn't a game."


Edit: I hope the game gets better, and stuff.
 
...So I think the 70 rating is for the fun of discovery and what it can be.

Best wishes,

Bruenor

I look at it like this:

If Elemental was produced by Blizzard and released in EXACTLY the same condition buyers found it on the shelf, what would PC Gamer have given it as a rating?

In my opinion, they would have tanked it. It's just not what would be expected of a top-tier developer. (All ruminations about PC-G's rating methods aside, for the moment...)

I used to subscribe to PCG waaay back, when getting a 3.5 disk full of game goodness and awesome patches and mods was the highlight of my month. Even then, the rule of thumb was this: If it was within the lower 30% of ratings in that issue, it's not worth buying in its present form.

However, that being said and continued goodwill desired for Kael, I'll say that Stardock desiring to breathe some fresh air into Elemental development by hiring a developer that is in-tune with the player base is a very good sign. So, I hope to see some improvements coming out for Elemental in the near future which may make this entire rant session about Elemental fairly meaningless.
 
I look at it like this:

If Elemental was produced by Blizzard and released in EXACTLY the same condition buyers found it on the shelf, what would PC Gamer have given it as a rating?

In my opinion, they would have tanked it. It's just not what would be expected of a top-tier developer. (All ruminations about PC-G's rating methods aside, for the moment...)

I used to subscribe to PCG waaay back, when getting a 3.5 disk full of game goodness and awesome patches and mods was the highlight of my month. Even then, the rule of thumb was this: If it was within the lower 30% of ratings in that issue, it's not worth buying in its present form.

However, that being said and continued goodwill desired for Kael, I'll say that Stardock desiring to breathe some fresh air into Elemental development by hiring a developer that is in-tune with the player base is a very good sign. So, I hope to see some improvements coming out for Elemental in the near future which may make this entire rant session about Elemental fairly meaningless.

I really think people should respect the fact that other people have different opinions. I think your comments are disprespectful to the reviewer.

This thread is full of people saying Elemental is a disaster - not everyone agrees, and not everyone who disagrees has been bribed, is an idiot, or is using different standards.

Best wishes,

Breunor
 
This thread is full of people saying Elemental is a disaster - not everyone agrees, and not everyone who disagrees has been bribed, is an idiot, or is using different standards.
I have to disagree with you there.

You see, no person here is a professional reviewer. And as far as I know, there are no set standards for reviewing video games. Hence, everyone who plaid the game and posts his opinion does so based on his or hers own personal set of standards. (It's called personal taste.)


So yes, everyone posting here uses a different set of standards than anyone else.
Hence, by extension, anyone who thinks elemental is good is in fact using a different set of standards than anyone who says that it is not. :lol:


Sorry, I just could not resist posting that.
 
Honestly, I wouldn't mind Elemental as a 15$ trendy game for a few laughs.

If there was a well made game within the same concept (like a Fantasy Civ IV: Total War) ... then Elemental would only be worth 5$ in my mind.

However, 15$ is less than the 50$ triple-A price that is really more like 35$ *extra* of "investment" in its "potential."

-only my opinion


I only hope that the game is eventually worth the 50$ and so much more ... ie the millions of dollars that Stardock invested into it.
 
Hence, everyone who plaid the game and posts his opinion does so based on his or hers own personal set of standards.
Well, I think he meant different standards for different games (since he was quoting Morkonan who wrote that if it were a Blizzard game it would have gotten harsh reviews) rather than different from each other.
 
God I'm still proud of that MS paint artwork I created ;)
 
I bought this game. It is a great game. Lots of dept to it. I enjoy the game....

HOWEVER!!!

I hate the UI. it is not intuitive. I have yet to figure out how to grab certain units out of a stack or even to know which units in a stack I currently have and will move when I tell them too.

Love the game, hate the controls
 
Well, I think he meant different standards for different games (since he was quoting Morkonan who wrote that if it were a Blizzard game it would have gotten harsh reviews) rather than different from each other.

Yes, thanks, that is what I meant. It is unfair to say a reviewer was 'influenced' by the designer's reputation without other knowledge about him or her - any more than anyone saying it about anyone else here on the forum. Saying 'he disagrees with me so obviously he isn't being a fair reviewer' is childish.

Best wishes,

Breunor
 
I really think people should respect the fact that other people have different opinions. I think your comments are disprespectful to the reviewer.

There's no disrespect intended nor can one interpret that from my comments. The small bit I wrote has to do with perception and expectation.

If my comments need translating, then I believe the review score that was given was based on the perception that Stardock is not a big company with a large production budget, thus the expectation should not be as high. It's a matter of my personal opinion only, as I stated in my post. I certainly intended no disrespect and am not sure how my comments could have been interpreted that way.

This thread is full of people saying Elemental is a disaster - not everyone agrees, and not everyone who disagrees has been bribed, is an idiot, or is using different standards. Best wishes,Breunor

I don't see how you could interpret my comments as meaning all of that.

I don't see what the disconnect is here. That Elemental needs "fixing" is surely not in contention, is it? Is it a "disaster?" Well, I suppose it's not a disaster in that it's another BC3000. Certainly, it's not that bad. It also didn't have the hype of Daikatana either, so it's not a publicity disaster. So, I would agree it's not a disaster. We can find some common ground there, can't we?

My criticisms are not as one-sided and inflexible as I think you're painting them. They focus on the initial hubris of the designer, his failure to avoid the "Drama Bus" that he helped to create and some of the elements of game play that either make no sense (as reported) or are simply "bad" in overall design. Comparing those to certain notables in CG history is only natural. (The book comments, if they're in this thread, are an entirely different matter.)

I think it can be "fixed." I think it needs to be "fixed." I think Stardock has taken a great step forward in doing that by hiring Kael. Of course, I believe that because I'm a big fan of Kael's efforts and he's demonstrated the ability to produce a good game. So, I have positive hopes for Elemental and Stardock because of this. That I have criticisms of their past performance and certain PR issues shouldn't be surprising, given the impact this release has had and the drama surrounding it.

But, there is no disrespect for anyone intended. I apologize if my cynicism towards certain elements somehow gave that impression.
 
...Saying 'he disagrees with me so obviously he isn't being a fair reviewer' is childish. Best wishes, Breunor

I would agree with you wholeheartedly, if that is what I said. :)

We can all agree to disagree on our perceptions concerning "Elemental." Some people like cake, some like pie, after all. Bur, certainly some will take sides on the best ingredients for a cake or a pie, right? Some may even agree that adding bricks to one's ingredients is probably not a good element.

(IOW, even though there may be differences in play preferences, there are certain functional elements that virtually everyone would agree are necessary in a game and some that are counterproductive to the idea of "fun.")

But, hopefully, through continuing efforts, Stardock will be able to normalize our perceptions and be able to eventually evoke a positive response to the question "Is it fun?" from their audience.
 
I have two problems with the game:

First, the lore is bland. Normally, this wouldn't be a huge problem, but it is reflected in the game in a lot of ways. For example, the civilizations are not interesting, the races don't matter, and the maps are bland. Powers and magic aren't very exciting, either. All of this can be traced back to the lore of the world. The campaign suffers the most in this regard. It was dreadfully boring, and did nothing to explore the individuals you visit in your quest.

Second, and partly related to the above, is that city building is boring. You build whatever you want, where ever you want, paying little regard to what goes where until late game (if at all) when your cities may get crowded. Even then, not specializing barely hurts you. The buildings are uninteresting as well, usually just adding flat small bonuses or low percentages. Since no units are tied to buildings, and the only limit in cities is the amount of squares, there is not much buildings CAN do. This is my biggest problem with the game, because I LOVE building cities in FFH and Civ4. Whether it is the lore associated with a wonder, or the usefulness of building an archery range, you feel like you accomplished something when you build a structure. In Elemental, it is just adding stuff to a que and creating the same city over and over.

What's worse, to me, is that neither of these issues ever get brought up by the developers as something that they feel needs to be fixed. FFH was steeped in lore and fantastical, unique cities and races. Elemental does not even come close.
 
My experience is similar to Verdian's - however I am still optimistic.

1.1 might start to address the second part - and I hope Kael, (and Heavenfall and Raven X on the mod side) will address the first. v 1.1 won't be relaesed until mid/late November to give Kael time to get on board, so I guess time will tell.
 
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