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Elf Defender, Jul 17, 2007

Discussion in 'Civ3 - Unit Graphics' started by Olorin0222, Jul 19, 2007.

  1. Mithadan

    Mithadan Wandering Woodsman

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    Cool, yes! Asian influenced, not likely.
     
  2. odintheking

    odintheking Lighting the way...

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    But there's no Asia in Middle-Earth, :p. What I'm saying is it would be kind of stupid for an imaginary race to be exactly like any race we have on Earth.
     
  3. Mithadan

    Mithadan Wandering Woodsman

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    Sure there is. The usual map we have only shows Western Middle-Earth. Where do you think the Easterlings come from? They're way off "the map" to the east, where Asia would be in RL. Tolkien said that the Shire is roughly where England would be in RL, surprise surprise. Harad is about where one would expect North Africa to be. Hmmm. So not only do we have rough time frames (500-1040AD) for what the material culture of Middle-Earth would have looked like, but we also have rough geographical indicators too. With the exception of Avarin elves way off past the (lost?) Orocarni mountains in the distant east, it would be highly anomalous for the Eldar to be wielding swords of a scimitar-katana style. They rather epitomise the idealised, heroic "knight" (thegn, miles, whatnot) of the middle-to-late European Dark Age.

    Not so incidentally, only the Orcs are mentioned carrying curved swords. Tolkien uses the word "scimitar" for it, actually. This is strongly reminiscent of the stereotypical Latin-West distinction between the cruciform sword of the Crusader, and the curved, nasty sword of the Saracen. As is much lamented elsewhere, this sort of old-school ethnic stereotyping underlies much of Tolkien's myth. So if we feel like politically correcting Middle-Earth, by all means, give the Elves (who are supposed to embody Northernness) curvy swords, just like their twisted evil imitations, the Orcs. If not, stick to the indications we get from the extensive body of texts we've got, and give'em Franconian, Carolingian, Lotharingian, Saxon swords (or thereabouts).
     
  4. DragonBird

    DragonBird King

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    Its not our fault that curved swords are easier to draw from the waist, and help to absorb a blow. (Elves, being the perfect race would use the most effective equipment) But who cares? its mostly a matter of personal preference.
     
  5. Mithadan

    Mithadan Wandering Woodsman

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    What's a matter of personal preference?

    No, Elves being all that is good about humanity does not make them technological geniuses. If it did, they would have had phasers or pulse rifles or something. Tolkien was a bit of a Luddite anyway.
     
  6. DragonBird

    DragonBird King

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    You don't have to be a genius to use the most effective tools or actions.
    Besides this is how technology of warfare has progressed:

    Spoiler :
    two men meet each other, they fight and one loses. The loser thinks: How can I beat him the next time?.

    The 2 men meet again, this time the loser brings a heavy stick. The loser beats the other man.

    The current loser think to himself: That stick hurt how can I beat him without him hurting me?

    The 2 men meet again. One man carries his stick the other carries a spear. The spearman is the victor.

    The clubby-smacky-bashy dude returns to his cave. He thinks: what if I don't have to get close? What if I can stand way over there and hurt the other guy?

    The 2 men meet again: The spearman stands in the valley, and looks up at the man on the hill. The man on the hill raises his bow and fires.

    Some people enjoy the way hollywood portrays Tolkein's Elves. Others don't.

    I don't want to get pissed off in a pointless arguement, and I don't want PO anyone either
     
  7. Stormrage

    Stormrage Ever Present Taskmaster

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    Thats not the technology of warfare, thats Worms Armageddon :lol:
     
  8. Blue Monkey

    Blue Monkey Archon Without Portfolio

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    War is just an extension of diplomacy: Smartypants elves tell the men "Let's you and him fight.":mischief:

    Elves made all the original WOMDs that Morgoth, Sauron, & Saruman used. They probably could trade some pretty beads for a few curved swords if they didn't want to bother making them.:p
     
  9. DragonBird

    DragonBird King

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    Well... ... ... yea... if you want to look at it that way. :D
     
  10. odintheking

    odintheking Lighting the way...

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    Just a note: we're all being giant nerds arguing about this, ;).
     
  11. Stormrage

    Stormrage Ever Present Taskmaster

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    Well if civfanatics isn`t one giant heap of nerds, then I don`t know what is... I mean, he made a LOTR unit, and we are discussing it. Thank God, I`m one of those less smart nerds, thus I offer some refreshing in these discussions, so we don`t scare away our less nerdy members (those fancy new generations that don`t know how to spell ;) - I have finaly come to peace with the fact that its really not their fault. Go ahead, type your "u" stuff, just don`t be surprised if someone nukes you for it ;))
     
  12. Mithadan

    Mithadan Wandering Woodsman

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    Yeah, nerds. F'shuggah. Amen, and more of it!

    Anyway, I could tolerate a scramasax or something. That's what I'll pretend Galadriel has got here (although I'm not aware of any curvy scramasaxes). But I'll reiterate what I've said earlier, and which I don't think has received much in the way of response, which is that I do not see how scimitars, katanas, and other curvy swords fit in at all with Tolkien's general ethos of Northerness, which the Eldar are to embody in the fullest. Anybody think that even Eöl made Anglachel or Anguirel in the shape of a sickle sword?

    Ilúvatar forbid that the Eldar would trade with the Orcs and Easterlings for weapons! Their heroic, stalwart, forger-of-mystically-superior-western-arms credibility would piss away in a big hurry. The superiority of Elvish (and Dwarvish) weapons lay in legendary smithcraft, runes and perhaps even magic, not aping foreign styles. To think Middle-earthy is to think outside the technological-progressivist paradigm. (Playing Civ doesn't help that at all!)
     

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