Embassy to Team Sirius

[Sommerswerd]

This is the second letter:

Greetings AMAZONs,

We apologise for any delays in our responses recently; we are unfortunately not as efficient at conducting diplomacy as our AMAZON friends. We will try to work on this in the future.

We are pleased to announce that we would be happy to accept your proposed "Exclusive Tech Trading Treaty (ETTT)", with the simple condition that we strengthen the existing alliance between our two teams at the same time. The reasoning for this is simple - we'd be absolutely delighted to enter into a free tech-trading alliance with you, but it feels a bit odd if underlying this close technological friendship is a mere non-aggression pact that can be cancelled at any time. We're sure you agree that it doesn't make sense to have such a close technological alliance, and yet still at all times have the threat of a potential war between us being only 15 turns away on the horizon. Simply put, it seems to us that our old non-aggression agreement just doesn't fit any more with this new extremely close friendship which we are about to enter into.

As such, we propose the following extensions of our alliance as conditions for accepting the ETTT:

- Non-aggression between our nations fixed until at least 1000 AD. The only condition for this being broken is if all other nations in the game have been destroyed before then (which is extremely unlikely, maybe even impossible). Explanation: This guarantees a peaceful and friendly environment for both of us to conduct our close technological alliance within.

- Both of our nations agree to help one another where possible if either of us are involved in a defensive war. For offensive wars against third parties, neither of our nations is obligated to get involved, although of course we may choose to fight together. Explanation: If someone is attacking you, it's reasonable to expect your allies to help out. But if you're invading someone else, that's your own choice, and your allies may or may not want to get involved right away. Agreeing to provide military assistance to each other in times of defensive war helps both of us by making our nations more secure against invasions.

- Complete openness and honesty in our friendship. Neither of us holds back any information which we feel the other would like to know. This includes stuff like contact with new nations, important diplomacy with other nations, positions of suspicious rival units, information gained through espionage, and Settlers sent anywhere remotely close to the north-south line down the middle of the mainland territory between us. This is perhaps redundant as we have already been very open with one another (and we appreciate this greatly!) - but we may as well put it into words. Explanation: This way we'll both have maximum knowledge of our enemies' and each others' intentions, leaving no possibility for misunderstandings or frustrations between us.

Note that we are not proposing necessarily adding these conditions to the ETTT, which other teams may be included in, but as a specific and separate agreement between our two teams.

We hope that you'll agree that these extra conditions will further enhance our friendship, and we look forward to entering the ETTT with you!

Sincerely,
Lord Parkin and Irgy, on behalf of Team Sirius

 

[Sommerswerd]

This is good news, and I propose we quickly send them a note saying simply:

We accept all your terms and consider our nations bound by the language of the ETTT, as well as the additional conditions you outlined, until such time that our two nations agree on a more formalized, separate treaty.

Incidentaly, our elders have working on such a treaty, tentatively called The ASP (AMAZON-Sirius Pact), in anticipation of your concerns. Our Diplomatic Offices will present this to you soon, along with a letter addressing some of the unrelated issues you raised in previous letters, but until both our nations can agree to the terms of the ASP, we will both be bound by the conditions you outlined in your last message.

I think this message reflects the previously expressed wishes of the majority of us, so I will send this shortly, then log in and start exchanging tech, unless of course a majority objects, or SilCon send our reply first.

The main point is we need to edit the ASP a little before sending it, but we MUST secure the ETTT before the end of the turn... and before Sirius changes their mind

 

[SilentConfusion]

My proposal would be an edit of your proposed message. Something like this. No need to even say "we accept until." We can just say "we accept" and tell them that we are working on a treaty that should strengthen our relationship even further. We can simply suggest when we send The ASP that it take the place of our past agreements because it is just an expansion of what we agreed upon earlier.

We accept all of your additional terms and consider our nations bound by the language of the ETTT, as well as the additional conditions you outlined.

Incidentally, our elders have been working on a treaty in anticipation of your concerns that included terms similar to the ones you have proposed as well as other ideas for how we can work closely and cooperatively. We have tentatively called it The ASP (AMAZON-Sirius Pact). Our Diplomatic Offices will present this to you soon, along with a letter addressing some of the unrelated issues you raised in previous letters.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Sounds great. I agree with your concerns (including the ones you had before you edited your last message). Lets send that and move on to the ASP.

I will log in and accept the trades now.

As far as the two boats, I would be fine with either going West or North. Since we are in an alliance now, it really does not matter. We can say that since we are slightly further ahead, it makes more sense for us to continue west to meet potential additions to the alliance first... but really since we have Jenny coming from the other direction, it does not matter all that much.

It might be better to let them decide, as it will avoid them feeling like they are being dictated to, and if we let them decide on a small matter like this, it will give us more capital to make the call on a bigger issue later on.

Another thing to tell them is that they will reach Merlot land in 1 or 2 turns, since they asked that specifically. Now that we are in a tech alliance, they can't trade with Merlot anyway, without our consent.

We also need to let them know that staggered trades is not the way to go as we want to pressure other teams into our tech alliance. What is the most diplomatic way to say this?

 

[SilentConfusion]

I will send that now, and begin thinking about a reply to their other concerns and talking about where we go int the future.

EDIT: This message was sent to Sirius on T51. Note that I added "are happy to" to the previous draft just to say how glad we are to work with them.

Greetings Sirians,

We are happy to accept all of your additional terms and consider our nations bound by the language of the ETTT, as well as the additional conditions you outlined.

Incidentally, our elders have been working on a treaty in anticipation of your concerns that included terms similar to the ones you have proposed as well as other ideas for how we can work closely and cooperatively. We have tentatively called it The ASP (AMAZON-Sirius Pact). Our Diplomatic Offices will present this to you soon, along with a letter addressing some of the unrelated issues you raised in previous letters.

Your friend,
SilentConfusion, AMAZON diplomat

 

[Sommerswerd]

I don't really think it's so much about Settler speed as it is about efficiency.

And our 2-pop whip in Them will not hurt our tech rate in the slightest as we'd be whipping off two tiles that don't produce commerce.

I agree the timing will look weird. Can we still do a 2-pop whip next turn?

I get the efficiency part, but About it not effecting commerce... They don't know that, unless we tell them. What matters most is how our allies percieve it.

Not sure about the 2 pop whip next turn, but I think that will look just as wierd. Waiting one turn will not stop it from seeming like exploitation... Unless we give a really good explanation to them.

I say we definitely shouldn't settle a city on Jennilund until we can come to an agreement about it first. But I think the whips should still probably happen.... We definitely want to get them a Settling agreement ASAP on Jennilund so they are not worried.

The one thing about that is that team already voted (unanimously) to settle Jennilund next. So I would say that we should eithe:
1. Poll the issue again, in light of the recent treaty,
2. Forget about the whip, to give us time to discuss the settlement of Jennilund with Sirius
3. Go ahead and whip/settle Jennilund, but send Sirius a letter explaining the whip... why we are whipping... that we already decided/polled/voted to settle Jennilund... Why(resources present etc.)... and that it does not reduce our tech rate

Otherwise the anti-treaty faction on the team (and I guarantee there is one) will have all the ammunition they need to start undermining the treaty.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Well then we should tell them that. I don't want to be kept from whipping our Settlers.

Perhaps we should add a term to the ETTT that no one will purposely lower their tech output with the intent to abuse the tech alliance? There was a term like that in the PASS. We should maybe put that in there. I'm sure it would be fine with them. We should at the very least give assurance that we are not going to do that to them. We have to come up with something, so we don't have to avoid whipping our Settlers and so we don't have send them a message each time we do letting them know we're not trying to cheat them.

We could poll whether to whip?

If we do decide to whip, I agree that we have to explain it to them.

 

[Sommerswerd]

I don't think we need a poll. We already polled to settle Jennilund, and the majority wants to whip. I will whip before the end of the turn.

A whip might actually help conceal the alliance, because it will temper the dramatic score increase... Now that I think about it, its perfect... It wont fool dilligent demographics readers, but it might confuse a few people. If the final score change isnt too dramatic, they might overlook it.

I'll log in and do the whip now, and let you do the explaining.

 

[nabaxo]

We are settling on the our side of Jennilund, right? Where's the issue with that? We could just send a note saying that we'll be settling a city on the east side of Jennilund imminently.

 

[nabaxo]

What about this:

Greetings esteemed allies,

First things first, Merlot's borders are indeed nearby Voyager. If keep moving Voyager in the steps of Martha for one or two turns, you will soon make conact with Merlot.

Moving along, as to further solidify our alliance and friendship, may it last, we gifted all of our techs in-game to you. These were at the time mysticism, hunting and masonry. Polytheism will be shared as soon as we finish researching it next turn.

You may have noticed that we just whipped out a settler, we want to inform you that this was a purely efficiency calculation and did not incur a research penalty on us. We have found a very peculiar animal on the east side of Jennilund that we are very keen on taming as we tamed the sheep on our home island. This time we are hopeful for using this strange beast, not for food and clothing, but as transportation and work.

That brings us to this point. We feel that it's imperative to work out a settlement plan for Jennilund immenantely. Below is a revised treaty containing details.

With regards,
nabaxo of the AMAZON.

 

[SilentConfusion]

I think that more will need to be said in the letter to Team Sirius, but that is a good start. I will give my complete thoughts on what should be added and I am drafting a revised and updated version of the ASP right now and will post the whole thing when done.

But what about the Settlement Section?

Are we not holding off on Settling Jennilund?

Are we going to wait until we have agreed on a settlement plan?

I suggest we tell them everything we can see about Jennilund and have them suggest a reasonable Settling terms. It will be pretty obvious if something is not fair, because the island is symmetrical, although the northern part is much narrower and doesn't have room for cities side-by-side

Here's what's been said about a settlement plan so far:

3. The settlement section should say. "Both teams agree not to engage in any further settlement of Andromeda/Jennilund, hereinafter to be called, Anjennida, until after Iron Working has been discovered and the portion lying between Sirius and The AMAZON has been fully explored, to determine resource locations. At that time the ASP members will come to a separate agreement regarding the settlement of Anjennida and settle only according to that agreement.

ASP members agree that no dispute over Anjennida shall cause the breaking of the ASP, and if the members cannot agree on how to equitably share Anjennida, then there shall be no further settlement of the portions of Anjennida lying between Sirius and The AMAZON."

I realize that this means that we can't settle Jennilund, but settling Jennilund is less important than securing an alliance, and I agree with damnrunner that Jennilund is a huge potential point of conflict. That is why they rushed to get Sailing, even after they knew it was a duplication and if we settle there first, it is just going to create tension. I put language in there to technically protect us if we settle BEFORE they sign the treaty, but relying on a technicality will make us seem devious and petty so I don't recommend it.

Following are my thoughts on a Memorandum of Understanding on the settlement of Jennyland/Andromeda. I think something like would make sense as an amendment to any main treaty. The goal is to facilitate the peaceful, fast, and conflict free settlement of Jennyland so that each team can aggressively claim land to the south.

Proposed Agreement:
Whereas both Team AMAZON and Team Sirius have leader traits that facilitate aggressive expansion.
Whereas both Team AMAZON and Team Sirius immediately border the relatively small landmass of Jennyland/Andromeda.
Whereas both Team AMAZON and Team Sirius border landmasses to the south of the AMAZON and Sirius home islands.
Whereas this land to the south is apparently larger than the Jennyland/Andromeda landmass.
Whereas conflict over the Jennyland/Andromeda landmass will be costly and will slow the expansion of Team AMAZON and Team Sirius into the landmasses to the south.

Therefore be it resolved that Team AMAZON and Team Sirius agree to the following Memorandum of Understanding with respect to the settlement of the Jennyland/Andromeda landmass:
-Upon exploration of the landmass, each team will agree to a plan in which each team has roughly equal and balanced city placements.
-Both teams will seek to coordinate the settlement of the landmass by cooperating with fog busting and barbarian suppression.
-Neither team will aggressively use culture to claim or otherwise deny access to land from the other team.
-Each team will proactively seek to cooperate on any conflicts of interest that arise in the course of settlement on the island.
-Should either team grossly neglect to place settlements on the landmass, the other team may culturally infringe on or otherwise claim this land.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Ok. Well, I added a lot. But then we have a lot to say. What do people think about this letter?

Greetings to our Sirian Allies,

We are very excited to be working with you to build a strong tech alliance. We have sent a copy of the ETTT to Quatronia, but they have not responded to us yet, although they seemed very interested in working with us. We should discuss who we want to add to the ETTA (Exclusive Tech Trading Alliance). We will meet the Mavericks soon, who are between you and Quatronia. We have already met House Merlot, and you will meet them next turn. Then the only team we will not have met is CDZ who must be south of Merlot.

We have accepted the techs offered. We see that you have also accepted Mysticism, Hunting, and Masonry which we offered to you. We will offer Polytheism next turn. We think that the trades will not go unnoticed by the other teams, and it may even help put pressure on the other civilizations to join our alliance, which will mean increased teching potential for all of us.

If the Voyager just follows in Martha's wake you should make contact with them next turn. We can see Merlot's borders this turn, and since we think you are only one turn behind us, you should meet them next turn. Two tiles south of Martha there appears to be another channel opening similar to the ones that are on either side of Andromeda/Jennilund. We have speculated that our creator may have made waterways that lead from the center of the star to each civilization to increase contact. We think the presence of these waterways could have given the barbarians the idea of building the Great Lighthouse. The presence of a third one of these "openings" makes us suspect it seem likely that this is the case. The presence of these canals must be even more exciting to you, considering that your civilization is capable of fielding a very strong navy.

We were disappointed that someone discovered Monotheism first. Only three teams gained points that turn: you, Quatronia, and the Mavericks. Since we know that you teched the second era tech Alphabet and Quatronia teched Writing (not only did they tell us that's what they were teching, but we can now offer Open Borders), it must have been the Mavericks. In that case it is a team that already had a religion. We think they may want it more for the production boost of Organized Religion than for the religion, and we think they plan to build more wonders. They possibly now have forges (MC from Oracle?) and Organized Religion.

Consider we have solidified our Trading Alliance, we will continue to research toward Monarchy. We appreciate the reminder of the benefit of having both optional prerequisites. We will proceed to get Monotheism and Priesthood, followed by Monarchy. How long do you think it will take you to research Mathematics, because we would probably switch to Priesthood first if you are going to start teching Currency before we finish both Monotheism and Priesthood. Right now we are running at 0% science to gather gold for binary research, and taking into account the fact that we will meet the Mavericks soon who have both Priesthood and Monotheism it seems wisest to do 0% research before we meet them.

You also undoubtedly noticed our score decrease during this turn. For efficiency reasons due to our IMP trait, we wanted to whip our Settler. Some of us were concerned that this might be construed as neglecting our research rate after we have secured a tech alliance, however we want to assure you that it did not pull off any of our commerce-producing citizens and did not decrease our tech rate at all and actually lowered our maintenance cost for the time being. Another city will result in a continued net gain in beakers for our alliance. We only mention this because we want nothing to call our intentions into question regarding this Alliance we have just entered into. We consider this alliance, and our close relationship with the Sirians in particular, to be our top priorities.

We want to start discussing a settlement plan for Andromeda/Jennilund. We have landed a scouting party on that landmass and have uncovered some resources. We would like to share the positions of these resources with you and keep you updated on what else we find, so that we can more quickly come to an agreement about the settling of this landmass. Coming to such an agreement, not only allows us avoid potential tension, but also gives us the option, if we so choose to focus our primary colonization attempts away from each other having already by agreement secured the land between us.

Here's a description of what we know the landmass looks like as we can see it:

Rows listed from North to South, tiles listed from West to East. A question mark is a guessed tile, still in Fog of War.

1st row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Desert, Desert
2nd row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Desert?, Desert
3rd row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Plains hill?, Desert
4th row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Plains hill?, Desert
5th row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Plains hill Marble, Desert
6th row: 3 land tiles: Flood Plains, Flood Plains, Flood Plains
7th row: 5 land tiles: Grass, Grass, Grass, Grass, Grass
8th row: 5 land tiles: Grass forest, Grass?, Grass?, Grass, Grass forest
9th row: 5 land tiles: Grass, Grass forest?, Grass, Grass, Grass
10th row: 7 land tiles: Grass, Grass, Grass?, Grass Banana, Grass, Grass forest, Grass
11th row: 7 land tiles: Grass, Grass hill?, Grass forest?, Grass, Grass, Grass hill Horse, Grass
12th row: 9 land tiles: Grass forest, Grass, Grass?, Grass?, Grass, Grass, Grass, Grass forest, Grass forest
13th row: 8 land tiles: Grass forest, Grass?, Grass jungle?, Grass jungle Banana, Grass, Grass, Grass forest, Grass forest

We are almost positive that the Grass hill in the 11th row on your side is also a Horse. We suspect that it was designed to cause conflict, with resources directly in the middle and a source of horses right next to each other's capitol. Hopefully others spend more time squabbling and less time working together. We want to work out a deal rather quickly so we can both plan our future settling strategies.

We would like to propose what we call the AMAZON-Sirius Pact (or ASP), and continue to work on a settling agreement with can be added as an amendment to the ASP. We incorporated our existing NAP and all of the terms you suggested to us in your last letter.. Let us know what you think.

The ASP​

The AMAZON-Sirius Pact​

Section 1. Members of the ASP

1.1. Team Sirius

1.2. The AMAZON​

Section 2. Pact Duration and Cancellation Terms

2.1. The pact continues indefinitely until it is canceled.

2.2. The pact cannot be canceled until 1000AD.

2.3. The pact will be canceled if at any time there are no non-member teams left in the game.

2.4. The pact can be canceled by either member if the other member knowingly violates the terms of the pact.​

Section 3. Non Aggression

3.1. Both members agree not to attack each other at any time while this pact is in effect.

3.2. If a third party attacks either one of the members, the other member agrees not give aid to that third party.

3.2.1. Giving aid to a third party includes providing gold, gifting military units, and granting passage to troops.​

3.3. Both members agree to help each other where possible if either of them are engaged in a defensive war.

3.3.1. If either member is engaged in an offensive war against a third party, the other member is not obligated to get involved, although help may be given volutarily.​

3.4. If the pact is canceled because there are no non-member teams left in the game (Section 2.3) a Non-Aggression Pact will go into effect that will last for 10 turns after the last non-member team is eliminated.​

Section 4. Open Borders

4.1. Both members agree to maintain an Open Borders treaty to facilitate trade and unit movement for the length of this pact.​

Section 5. Resources

5.1. Both members will seek to trade excess resources with the other member first before attempting to trade it to a non-member.

5.1.1. If the other member is unwilling or unable to make a reasonable trade offer the resource may be traded to a non-member.​

Section 6. Sharing Information

6.1. Both members agree to cooperate with complete openness and honesty.

6.2. Niether member will hold back any information which we feel the other member would like to know. This includes but it not limited to all of the following.

6.2.1. Contact with new nations

6.2.2. Important diplomacy with other nations

6.2.3. Positions and strengths of suspicious rival units

6.2.4. Information gained through espionage

6.2.5. Settlers being sent anywhere close to the line running North to South bisecting the mainlaind area between the two members.​

Section 7. Mutual Technological Advancement

7.1. Both members agree to conduct tech trading honestly and fairly.

7.2. Both members agree to continue to coordinate tech paths to avoid duplicate teching for the length of this pact.

7.3. Both members agree to the terms of the Exclusive Tech-Trading Treaty (ETTT) and agree to remain members while both The ASP and The ETTT are in effect.

7.4. Neither member will vote for the other to be removed from the ETTT.

7.5. Both members agree to seek to add at least one more member to the ETTT (for a total of 3 members) to ensure that both ASP members are not on the outside of a major tech trading alliance.​

Section 7. Religion

7.1. If either member gains a religion in any way while the other member is without a religion, the member with a religion agrees to make an effort to provide the other member with a missionary within a reasonable time limit.​

Section 8. Wonders

8.1. Both members agree be open with each other about plans to build World Wonders, to avoid duplication and the tension that could arise from secretly competing against each other.​

Section 9. Temporary Exceptions

9.1. Temporary exceptions can be made to the terms of the pact with the express agreement of both members. This is meant to allow either member to react to unforeseen circumstances.​

Section 10. Amendments

10.1. A proposed amendment may be submitted by either member.

10.2. A proposed amendment will be adopted upon agreement of both members.​

May the stars continue to show you favor.

Your allies,
nabaxo, AMAZON Special Diplomatic Envoy
SilentConfusion, AMAZON Diplomat

 

[SilentConfusion]

Is it too overwhelming? Too much at once?

 

[damnrunner]

long but looks good. Well done teammates!

 

[SilentConfusion]

This message sent after correcting a few misspellings with just a half hour left on T51:

Greetings to our Sirian Allies,

This is a long message, but now that we are going to be long-term allies, we have much to talk about.

We are very excited to be working with you to build a strong tech alliance. We have sent a copy of the ETTT to Quatronia, but they have not responded to us yet, although they seemed very interested in working with us. We should discuss who we want to add to the ETTA (Exclusive Tech Trading Alliance). We will meet the Mavericks soon, who are between you and Quatronia. We have already met House Merlot, and you will meet them next turn. Then the only team we will not have met is CDZ who must be south of Merlot.

We have accepted the techs offered. We see that you have also accepted Mysticism, Hunting, and Masonry which we offered to you. We will offer Polytheism next turn. We think that the trades will not go unnoticed by the other teams, and it may even help put pressure on the other civilizations to join our alliance, which will mean increased teching potential for all of us.

If the Voyager just follows in Martha's wake you should make contact with them next turn. We can see Merlot's borders this turn, and since we think you are only one turn behind us, you should meet them next turn. Two tiles south of Martha there appears to be another channel opening similar to the ones that are on either side of Andromeda/Jennilund. We have speculated that our creator may have made waterways that lead from the center of the star to each civilization to increase contact. We think the presence of these waterways could have given the barbarians the idea of building the Great Lighthouse. The presence of a third one of these "openings" makes us suspect it seem likely that this is the case. The presence of these canals must be even more exciting to you, considering that your civilization is capable of fielding a very strong navy.

We were disappointed that someone discovered Monotheism first. Only three teams gained points that turn: you, Quatronia, and the Mavericks. Since we know that you teched the second era tech Alphabet and Quatronia teched Writing (not only did they tell us that's what they were teching, but we can now offer Open Borders), it must have been the Mavericks. In that case it is a team that already had a religion. We think they may want it more for the production boost of Organized Religion than for the religion, and we think they plan to build more wonders. They possibly now have forges (MC from Oracle?) and Organized Religion.

Consider we have solidified our Trading Alliance, we will continue to research toward Monarchy. We appreciate the reminder of the benefit of having both optional prerequisites. We will proceed to get Monotheism and Priesthood, followed by Monarchy. How long do you think it will take you to research Mathematics, because we would probably switch to Priesthood first if you are going to start teching Currency before we finish both Monotheism and Priesthood. Right now we are running at 0% science to gather gold for binary research, and taking into account the fact that we will meet the Mavericks soon who have both Priesthood and Monotheism it seems wisest to do 0% research before we meet them.

You also undoubtedly noticed our score decrease during this turn. For efficiency reasons due to our IMP trait, we wanted to whip our Settler. Some of us were concerned that this might be construed as neglecting our research rate after we have secured a tech alliance, however we want to assure you that it did not pull off any of our commerce-producing citizens and did not decrease our tech rate at all and actually lowered our maintenance cost for the time being. Another city will result in a continued net gain in beakers for our alliance. We only mention this because we want nothing to call our intentions into question regarding this Alliance we have just entered into. We consider this alliance, and our close relationship with the Sirians in particular, to be our top priorities.

We want to start discussing a settlement plan for Andromeda/Jennilund. We have landed a scouting party on that landmass and have uncovered some resources. We would like to share the positions of these resources with you and keep you updated on what else we find, so that we can more quickly come to an agreement about the settling of this landmass. Coming to such an agreement, not only allows us avoid potential tension, but also gives us the option, if we so choose to focus our primary colonization attempts away from each other having already by agreement secured the land between us.

Here's a description of what we know the landmass looks like as we can see it:

Rows listed from North to South, tiles listed from West to East. A question mark is a guessed tile, still in Fog of War.

1st row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Desert, Desert
2nd row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Desert?, Desert
3rd row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Plains hill?, Desert
4th row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Plains hill?, Desert
5th row: 3 land tiles: Desert, Plains hill Marble, Desert
6th row: 3 land tiles: Flood Plains, Flood Plains, Flood Plains
7th row: 5 land tiles: Grass, Grass, Grass, Grass, Grass
8th row: 5 land tiles: Grass forest, Grass?, Grass?, Grass, Grass forest
9th row: 5 land tiles: Grass, Grass forest?, Grass, Grass, Grass
10th row: 7 land tiles: Grass, Grass, Grass?, Grass Banana, Grass, Grass forest, Grass
11th row: 7 land tiles: Grass, Grass hill?, Grass forest?, Grass, Grass, Grass hill Horse, Grass
12th row: 9 land tiles: Grass forest, Grass, Grass?, Grass?, Grass, Grass, Grass, Grass forest, Grass forest
13th row: 8 land tiles: Grass forest, Grass?, Grass jungle?, Grass jungle Banana, Grass, Grass, Grass forest, Grass forest

We are almost positive that the Grass hill in the 11th row on your side is also a Horse. We suspect that it was designed to cause conflict, with resources directly in the middle and a source of horses right next to each other's capitol. Hopefully others spend more time squabbling and less time working together. We want to work out a deal rather quickly so we can both plan our future settling strategies.

We would like to propose what we call the AMAZON-Sirius Pact (or ASP), and continue to work on a settling agreement with can be added as an amendment to the ASP. We incorporated our existing NAP and all of the terms you suggested to us in your last letter.. Let us know what you think.

The ASP​

The AMAZON-Sirius Pact​

Section 1. Members of the ASP

1.1. Team Sirius

1.2. The AMAZON​

Section 2. Pact Duration and Cancellation Terms

2.1. The pact continues indefinitely until it is canceled.

2.2. The pact cannot be canceled until 1000AD.

2.3. The pact will be canceled if at any time there are no non-member teams left in the game.

2.4. The pact can be canceled by either member if the other member knowingly violates the terms of the pact.​

Section 3. Non Aggression

3.1. Both members agree not to attack each other at any time while this pact is in effect.

3.2. If a third party attacks either one of the members, the other member agrees not give aid to that third party.

3.2.1. Giving aid to a third party includes providing gold, gifting military units, and granting passage to troops.​

3.3. Both members agree to help each other where possible if either of them are engaged in a defensive war.

3.3.1. If either member is engaged in an offensive war against a third party, the other member is not obligated to get involved, although help may be given voluntarily.​

3.4. If the pact is canceled because there are no non-member teams left in the game (Section 2.3) a Non-Aggression Pact will go into effect that will last for 10 turns after the last non-member team is eliminated.​

Section 4. Open Borders

4.1. Both members agree to maintain an Open Borders treaty to facilitate trade and unit movement for the length of this pact.​

Section 5. Resources

5.1. Both members will seek to trade excess resources with the other member first before attempting to trade it to a non-member.

5.1.1. If the other member is unwilling or unable to make a reasonable trade offer the resource may be traded to a non-member.​

Section 6. Sharing Information

6.1. Both members agree to cooperate with complete openness and honesty.

6.2. Neither member will hold back any information which we feel the other member would like to know. This includes but it not limited to all of the following.

6.2.1. Contact with new nations

6.2.2. Important diplomacy with other nations

6.2.3. Positions and strengths of suspicious rival units

6.2.4. Information gained through espionage

6.2.5. Settlers being sent anywhere close to the line running North to South bisecting the mainland area between the two members.​

Section 7. Mutual Technological Advancement

7.1. Both members agree to conduct tech trading honestly and fairly.

7.2. Both members agree to continue to coordinate tech paths to avoid duplicate teching for the length of this pact.

7.3. Both members agree to the terms of the Exclusive Tech-Trading Treaty (ETTT) and agree to remain members while both The ASP and The ETTT are in effect.

7.4. Neither member will vote for the other to be removed from the ETTT.

7.5. Both members agree to seek to add at least one more member to the ETTT (for a total of 3 members) to ensure that both ASP members are not on the outside of a major tech trading alliance.​

Section 7. Religion

7.1. If either member gains a religion in any way while the other member is without a religion, the member with a religion agrees to make an effort to provide the other member with a missionary within a reasonable time limit.​

Section 8. Wonders

8.1. Both members agree be open with each other about plans to build World Wonders, to avoid duplication and the tension that could arise from secretly competing against each other.​

Section 9. Temporary Exceptions

9.1. Temporary exceptions can be made to the terms of the pact with the express agreement of both members. This is meant to allow either member to react to unforeseen circumstances.​

Section 10. Amendments

10.1. A proposed amendment may be submitted by either member.

10.2. A proposed amendment will be adopted upon agreement of both members.​

May the stars continue to show you favor.

Your allies,
nabaxo, AMAZON Special Diplomatic Envoy
SilentConfusion, AMAZON Diplomat

 

[Sommerswerd]

Just looking over the ASP, and section 2.2 seems to either be redundant (because of section 2.1) or it conflicts with the other parts of section 2... For example, what if a member violates before1000AD? Does section 2.2 govern, or does section 2.4 govern?

More specifically, is there any circumstance where the treaty could be cancelled after 1000AD, that would not also allow cancellation BEFORE 1000AD? If the answer is no, then section 2.2 is redundant, and therefore unnecessary. However, I realize it was included because Sirius specifically asked for it, so for that reason, its fine.

I know the answer is that section 2.2 applies, except under the conditions in section 2.3 and 2.4, however, the ASP does not state this explicitly, which leaves it up to interpretation. Frankly, I prefer it that way, because it leaves room for us to make a maneuver if ever it came to that. The bottom line is that as long as things go as planned, we won't even need to look at this treaty again.

That was my only issue... the rest of the treaty seems fine... plus I just noticed that you already sent it so maybe Sirius will notice, hopefully not, probably not. Great work

 

[SilentConfusion]

We will need a message to Sirius, letting them know about Quatronia. And about the possible inclusion of CDZ, and ask them to hold off with Merlot for a little while. Shouldn't be that hard if they take as long to say as little as they did to us. We have some more information to share and good news, and we want to start the discussion about Alliance strategy to get them thinking of good ideas.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Agreed. We need Sirius approval to let the Q in, although I think they already said they wanted the Q in the alliance so that hurdle may already be crossed. We need to get them on board with the CDZ idea as well though, which should honestly be an easy sell... it is a very neat and logical setup for the alliance. The only X factor is whether the Q can really deliver CDZ... I hope so.

Thinking WAY long term... IF and only IF CDZ becomes the third Partner, we have an easy answer to the "What happens when the other two teams are gone?" question, which is generally a very akward issue.

I do agree that we need to give the Q a little time to get CDZ on board. At least until we meet them. We should get a few "How ya doin? Safe travels..." letters ready for Mavs and Merlot

 

[SilentConfusion]

Another long and fact-filled draft to Sirius:

Greetings to our Sirian allies,

We know that progress has come to a halt somewhat in the world right now, but while we're waiting for the world to come back online we'd like to take this chance to share some interesting new developments with our allies.

We told you that we had also contacted Quatronia in regards to joining the ETTA. It took them a little while to get back to us, but we just received word from them saying that they would be very interested in joining our Tech Alliance. This is, of course, subject to approval by Team Sirius, who is already in the ETTA, but we think that this news will be as welcome to you as it is to us. Having three teams on board means we will not have to go up against a bigger tech alliance. We think we should both accept Quatronia into our Alliance so that we can increase our teching power immediately. Not only did we receive this good news from The Continuum, as they call themselves, but they also informed us that they have had very good relations with CDZ for a while now and they feel pretty confident that they could bring them into our Alliance, giving us four members. They seemed to think that CDZ may be willing to or may already be teching Iron Working.

We have noticed (and you may have considered it too) the nice symmetry that it would bring to our Alliance if we had the two top teams and the two bottom teams together. Not only does this leave the two remaining teams, Merlot and the Mavericks, far apart from each other while every Alliance member has an ally close by, but it also gives every Alliance member one side on which they can expand aggressively while the other side can be secured by the two Allies.

The first issue is whether to accept Quatronia into our Alliance. We whole-heartedly suggest that we do. The second issue is whether we give them the go-ahead to try to bring CDZ into the ETTA. While we wish that one of us could speak directly with CDZ, we think it important to act on this opportunity quickly and we are in favor of attempting to acquire CDZ as an Ally. Quatronia says they have a good relationship with them and think they can get them on board.

Also Quatronia informed us that they would divert their research away from Alphabet, if we accept them and would switch research to Mathematics. However, you are already teching Mathematics, so it would be good to inform them right away of our tech plans so we can avoid duplication. So we should get back to them pretty soon, so they can switch. We haven't revealed either of our tech plans to them yet, since we wanted to receive your agreement before doing so.

That is the major news of the day, but we also picked up a few tidbits which we can share with you. Quatronia says there does seem to be channels leading to the center of the star, which they say is a somewhat desert area. It took Merlot quite a while to answer our welcome letter, and when we received it, it seemed fairly devoid of information. Quatronia says that this is the same kind of result they got when they met them. So you may find this to be the case as well, or maybe they're just still working out the kinks in their system. Quatronia has another work boat on the other side of Merlot's land, so they may meet Voyager near the same time their other work boat finds your homeland.

Quatronia confirmed what our intelligence department had figured out: that Mavericks did found Judaism in addition to Hinduism. They also told us that the Mavericks' researchers were so inspired by the building they built called the Oracle, that they almost immediately divined an understanding of Metal Casting.

We will offer you Polytheism when we log in next turn. We also would like to place a city on Andromeda/Jennilund sometime soon to claim the horses, as they may be needed on our other front, although we realize that Copper may be a more effective weapon against House Merlot's early soldiers. We want to place this city in a way that is fair to both of us as we wish no tension to arise between us. Our Settling efforts after this will be primarily directed in the direction of House Merlot. We are sure that we will be able to work out a Settlement plan that works for both of us.

Please don't be intimidated by our long communications. We just want to follow a policy of complete openness with the Sirians. Please feel free to respond to different parts of our communications separately if you wish. Also feel free to send us a quick note with what you feel is the more important time-sensitive stuff and take your time with the rest. We don't wish to overwhelm you, just to keep you informed.

The stars seem to be shining on us at the moment. If you've been talking to them on both of our behalf we very much appreciate it. Let see if we can keep them working in our favor.

SilentConfusion, AMAZON diplomat

EDIT: I suggest we add the bold sentence to the following paragraph:

The first issue is whether to accept Quatronia into our Alliance. We whole-heartedly suggest that we do. The second issue is whether we give them the go-ahead to try to bring CDZ into the ETTA. While we wish that one of us could speak directly with CDZ, we think it important to act on this opportunity quickly and we are in favor of attempting to acquire CDZ as an Ally. Quatronia says they have a good relationship with them and think they can get them on board. We suggest you send us your decision on whether to add Quatronia as soon as you make it, while a response to the rest can take more time in coming. If you accept them, this will allow us to most efficiently manage our tech path from day one.

I also think this should go out soon. Looks like DaveShack's not around to fix the game. This may give us a little bit of extra time to work this out, but we want it rolling quickly. Any reload from the last time someone successfully logged in probably means we'll go back to the end of last turn, so we'll probably have more than a whole turn to get the messages sent and received. The sooner we can get Quatronia approved the sooner we can start talking about getting a 4th member. It is 11:36PM here, and I will get this sent out before I go to sleep.

 

[SilentConfusion]

Sent this to Team Sirius, while the game is still down between T51 and T52.

Greetings to our Sirian allies,

We know that progress has come to a halt somewhat in the world right now, but while we're waiting for the world to come back online we'd like to take this chance to share some interesting new developments with our allies.

We told you that we had also contacted Quatronia in regards to joining the ETTA. It took them a little while to get back to us, but we just received word from them saying that they would be very interested in joining our Tech Alliance. This is, of course, subject to approval by Team Sirius, who is already in the ETTA, but we think that this news will be as welcome to you as it is to us. Having three teams on board means we will not have to go up against a bigger tech alliance. We think we should both accept Quatronia into our Alliance so that we can increase our teching power immediately. Not only did we receive this good news from The Continuum, as they call themselves, but they also informed us that they have had very good relations with CDZ for a while now and they feel pretty confident that they could bring them into our Alliance, giving us four members. They seemed to think that CDZ may be willing to or may already be teching Iron Working.

We have noticed (and you may have considered it too) the nice symmetry that it would bring to our Alliance if we had the two top teams and the two bottom teams together. Not only does this leave the two remaining teams, Merlot and the Mavericks, far apart from each other while every Alliance member has an ally close by, but it also gives every Alliance member one side on which they can expand aggressively while the other side can be secured by the two Allies.

The first issue is whether to accept Quatronia into our Alliance. We whole-heartedly suggest that we do. The second issue is whether we give them the go-ahead to try to bring CDZ into the ETTA. While we wish that one of us could speak directly with CDZ, we think it important to act on this opportunity quickly and we are in favor of attempting to acquire CDZ as an Ally. Quatronia says they have a good relationship with them and think they can get them on board. We suggest you send us your decision on whether to add Quatronia as soon as you make it, while a response to the rest can take more time in coming. If you accept them, this will allow us to most efficiently manage our tech path from day one.

Also Quatronia informed us that they would divert their research away from Alphabet, if we accept them, and would switch research to Mathematics. However, you are already teching Mathematics, so it would be good to inform them right away of our tech plans so we can avoid duplication. So we should get back to them pretty soon, so they can switch. We haven't revealed either of our tech plans to them yet, since we wanted to receive your agreement before doing so.

That is the major news of the day, but we also picked up a few tidbits which we can share with you. Quatronia says there does seem to be channels leading to the center of the star, which they say is a somewhat desert area. It took Merlot quite a while to answer our welcome letter, and when we received it, it seemed fairly devoid of information. Quatronia says that this is the same kind of result they got when they met them. So you may find this to be the case as well, or maybe they're just still working out the kinks in their system. Quatronia has another work boat on the other side of Merlot's land, so they may meet Voyager near the same time their other work boat finds your homeland.

Quatronia confirmed what our intelligence department had figured out: that Mavericks did found Judaism in addition to Hinduism. They also told us that the Mavericks' researchers were so inspired by the building they built called the Oracle, that they almost immediately divined an understanding of Metal Casting.

We will offer you Polytheism when we log in next turn. We also would like to place a city on Andromeda/Jennilund sometime soon to claim the horses, as they may be needed on our other front, although we realize that Copper may be a more effective weapon against House Merlot's early soldiers. We want to place this city in a way that is fair to both of us as we wish no tension to arise between us. Our Settling efforts after this will be primarily directed in the direction of House Merlot. We are sure that we will be able to work out a Settlement plan that works for both of us.

Please don't be intimidated by our long communications. We just want to follow a policy of complete openness with the Sirians. Please feel free to respond to different parts of our communications separately if you wish. Also feel free to send us a quick note with what you feel is the more important time-sensitive stuff and take your time with the rest. We don't wish to overwhelm you, just to keep you informed.

The stars seem to be shining on us at the moment. If you've been talking to them on both of our behalf we very much appreciate it. Let see if we can keep them working in our favor.

SilentConfusion, AMAZON diplomat