Emigration

[killmeplease]

in v4 an effect should be pretty frequent, if you dont see it, it means the mod doesnt work.

i'll try to make it compatible with GnK. wont set a release date, will post about my progress itstead.

now i'm playing the fall of rome scenario, will proceed to emigration as i'll beat those nasty barbs

 

[frozenaomi]

Actually, I'm using the v4 version in G&K and it is working quite well...citizens move frequently within my country and I have been gaining civs occasionally from other nations, particularly the Songhai now that they are loosing their war with Hiawatha. I dunno I'll try to grab a screen caption or send you the save file if it would help to compare a working to a nonworking load. I also have cultural diffusion, the better world 3 map generator, and better city state diplomacy. IDK what I could do to be helpful but if you let me know I'll try.

 

[killmeplease]

Actually, I'm using the v4 version in G&K and it is working quite well...citizens move frequently within my country and I have been gaining civs occasionally from other nations, particularly the Songhai now that they are loosing their war with Hiawatha. I dunno I'll try to grab a screen caption or send you the save file if it would help to compare a working to a nonworking load. I also have cultural diffusion, the better world 3 map generator, and better city state diplomacy. IDK what I could do to be helpful but if you let me know I'll try.

screenshot and save would be nice!

 

[wuTz]

I just wanted to play Marathon Deity, but it's impossible with this mod, I never had over 2 pop in my capital until Romans came and kill me, I lost way too often inhabitants by emigration :-(

For the higher diff-levels you should adjust the happiness-bonus by the AI...

<GameData>
	<HandicapInfos>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="HANDICAP_EMPEROR"/>
			<Set AIUnhappinessPercent="100"/>
		</Update>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="HANDICAP_IMMORTAL"/>
			<Set AIUnhappinessPercent="95"/>
		</Update>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="HANDICAP_DEITY"/>
			<Set AIUnhappinessPercent="90"/>
		</Update>
	</HandicapInfos>
</GameData>

 

[skodkim]

I just wanted to play Marathon Deity, but it's impossible with this mod, I never had over 2 pop in my capital until Romans came and kill me, I lost way too often inhabitants by emigration :-(

For the higher diff-levels you should adjust the happiness-bonus by the AI...

<GameData>
	<HandicapInfos>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="HANDICAP_EMPEROR"/>
			<Set AIUnhappinessPercent="100"/>
		</Update>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="HANDICAP_IMMORTAL"/>
			<Set AIUnhappinessPercent="95"/>
		</Update>
		<Update>
			<Where Type="HANDICAP_DEITY"/>
			<Set AIUnhappinessPercent="90"/>
		</Update>
	</HandicapInfos>
</GameData>

I agree. I also keep losing citizens on emperor even though I have positive happiness. I think this should be tweaked somewhat.

\Skodki

 

[killmeplease]

double

 

[killmeplease]

OK at least we know it works under the GnK.
I'll see how it works on higher levels above the king level. Though maybe you're losing ppl cause you continue playing in the ordinary style. It isnt enough to have a positive happiness to secure yourself from emigration. You should have the same to your rivals' to stop it, and more to use it to your benefits. Playing king difficulty game i was maintaining a happiness level of 30-40 and got plenty of immigrants from Greece and Japan. Darius had about 30 happiness too so i got a couple of persian immigrants only when Alex had pillaged his luxuries.

Have to run an another test game.

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

As I've already said, I'd definitely like to see this Mod take account of religious factors-at least as a pre-Renaissance factor. If city A has followers of Religion A, then they might be more likely to move to a city where their religion is dominant-or to a civilization where their religion is dominant-especially if there has been Inquisitor activity within city A (or empire A). Hope that makes sense ;-).

Aussie.

 

[wuTz]

good idea, but emigration often took place, when you couldn't identify yourself with the regional culture/religion, so this would lead to the exact opposite.

I played another marathon game deity with the tiny happy-bonus-malus for the AI (so it's 90 instead of 75% unhappiness for the AI) and I must say it is now very possible to play ;-) I care alot about happiness and I have 50-50 immi emmi


Is it possible that emi takes place more often, when my happiness is about 0-3 then when its just below 0 ? Maybe it was just random...?!

 

[mr_boogie]

I love your MOD and basically play my game around it - meaning my first purpose is happiness... When you start from that, you can easily get a lot of people from other civs.
You can evolve this mod into a "move for jobs" mod. That is, cities where there are vacancies would get people from cities where there are unemployed people within your civ. This would be a good way for balancing the civilization, specially for playing wide...

 

[killmeplease]

I love your MOD and basically play my game around it - meaning my first purpose is happiness... When you start from that, you can easily get a lot of people from other civs.
You can evolve this mod into a "move for jobs" mod. That is, cities where there are vacancies would get people from cities where there are unemployed people within your civ. This would be a good way for balancing the civilization, specially for playing wide...

thanks!
about "move for jobs", ppl already migrate between your cities. if you have some undeveloped city its very likely that its citizens will move to one of more developed cities (e.g. capital).
unemployed citizens in their turn lower city's productivity rating raising a chanse of emigration.

 

[thadian]

I wish i could control this is some way or direct it. It is straining when my capital gets too many citizens, leaving my other cities in bad shape. Just as my lesser cities start to grow, they shrink down, leaving my capital bigger than i intended and my other cities smaller. This causes starvation to be the only way to control this.

(For example, 3 cities with 20 citizens. I have 10 citizens in city A, and 5 citizens in the other 2 cities. I NEED those 5 citizens there so that they can work tiles and markets for gold, but they leave the city for my capital. Now, my capital has a citizen i don't want in it, and my city B almost becomes worthless, having to re-assign food workers.

 

[wuTz]

I wish i could control this is some way or direct it. It is straining when my capital gets too many citizens, leaving my other cities in bad shape. Just as my lesser cities start to grow, they shrink down, leaving my capital bigger than i intended and my other cities smaller. This causes starvation to be the only way to control this.

(For example, 3 cities with 20 citizens. I have 10 citizens in city A, and 5 citizens in the other 2 cities. I NEED those 5 citizens there so that they can work tiles and markets for gold, but they leave the city for my capital. Now, my capital has a citizen i don't want in it, and my city B almost becomes worthless, having to re-assign food workers.

this sounds quite realistic...you should offer your population in the minor cities some more...happiness!!

killmeplease, did u playtest a game on marathon deity, can u manage the start? Still I think it is way too frustrating, because in the beginning the AI is already OP without the mod...

 

[thadian]

but i don't know how to offer them more happiness without paying more maintenance... The one way i have is to build a pagoda in city B and not build one in city A, which will "level" the happiness but then i am losing a pagoda.

either way, i can deal with learning a different method of playing that involves a few strategy changes, because this mod is fun. The one question i have is when someone migrates, what determines the religion of someone? Can i send my people into misery and let them spread my religion to other countries by religious population?

 

[Aussie_Lurker]

but i don't know how to offer them more happiness without paying more maintenance... The one way i have is to build a pagoda in city B and not build one in city A, which will "level" the happiness but then i am losing a pagoda.

either way, i can deal with learning a different method of playing that involves a few strategy changes, because this mod is fun. The one question i have is when someone migrates, what determines the religion of someone? Can i send my people into misery and let them spread my religion to other countries by religious population?

Hmmm, maybe this is an opportunity for KMP to revisit the mod & make a few G&K specific modifications to it. For instance, You could have Freedom, Autocracy & Order policies which reduce or increase the amount of population coming to & leaving your cities. You could also have Religion impact the flow of immigrants-especially if you or your neighbours have implemented Theocracy ;-). Just spit-balling KMP, hope you don't mind. BTW, when can we expect a v4? ;-)

Aussie.

 

[killmeplease]

Hello
Thanks for the feedback!
i'm quite busy now, i think i will release v4 in september as i dont have time to playtest v4 and study religion modding.

wuTz i've only played 1 quick small king game (i pretty always play quick small games) with v4 so far
thats why i greatly appreciate your comments about playing on different settings. i'll introduce what you propose, weakening AIs emigration attractiveness for high levels.

thadian your people go to capital because its much more developed than other cities. solution is to develop these cities.. happiness buildings dont affect internal migrations at all. yield buildings affect.

Aussie, theres already some policy effects in v4 beta, freedom adds +1 to your migration rating (its an equivalent for 10 happiness points), autocracy halves emigration probability (both internal and foreign). i'll add more effects maybe, policy and religion related.

 

[thadian]

thadian your people go to capital because its much more developed than other cities. solution is to develop these cities.. happiness buildings dont affect internal migrations at all. yield buildings affect.

i tend to pump out 3 "mid-level" cities and focus on my capital - however, i never realized it was yields effecting it. Most often than not, i have one or two cities for gold, one for specialists, and 1 (usually cap) for production.

So the game detects that my other cities are "inferior" and my citizens go where life is better - as a sociologist, i appreciate push-pull factors in migrations.

I wish i could set something to change these push-pull factors a little bit, because "make a building" is not always an option. I might not have enough gold, i might be in a situation where im building troops, i might already have all buildings possible in capital but 3 specialized cities - stability is tough. Lately, ive had City B and City C citizens migrate back and forth between the two, rofl!

But im not frustrated so easily, its amusing to see my citizens always pursuing better lives while i have to find a way to react - i just wish there were ways to react other than incurring more maintenance costs or removing buildings from my capital.

 

[killmeplease]

Let me explain how PR (prosperity rating) is calculated.
its made up of three values: H+P+W (+1 for Freedom)
H = happiness/10
P = numPolicies/12
W = (food+production+gold+science+culture+GP points) / citySize / 6
yields are final, after all the percentages applied. and if you have built national colledge, hanging gardens etc in a capital city, the capital pumps population from your country with great force. though, after it has grown a certain size, its citizens start to work bad tiles or become unemployed, and its W factor diminishes.

thats why ppl can move from one city to another and back.
e.g. city A has 1 population, its W factor is higher than that of city B (2 pop) but when a citizen has migrated to A from B, W for B becomes greater than for A.

 

[wuTz]

Hey, that sounds interesting.

However, in my latest game I modded the AI, so they have less happiness bonus.

I'm on average happiness 13, some civs have more, some less, but one Attila, has really -15 or something like that for several turns. However he still has the highest population and science rank and it seems not to decrease.
How can that be?
I often wondered, why I myself loose citizens when having around 0-2 happiness, but keep going having -1 happiness onwards...

Could it be, now that I saw the formula, that the city production is automatically changed to more production and so the W increases when being under 0 happiness?
So maybe happiness shoould be valued more high, excpecially because thats the value u can improve and u can look at. All the hidden values shouldn't be too high, I think.

 

[killmeplease]

So maybe happiness shoould be valued more high, excpecially because thats the value u can improve and u can look at. All the hidden values shouldn't be too high, I think.

its hard to say what factors more on different game stages, happiness or wealth (W), and it also depends on your rival's strategy.

maybe it should be shown somewhere.. e.g. at the diplo screen and at the domestic advisor screen. i've never modded screens though so it will take some time.

i also want to add a penalty for being unhappy and very unhappy


ps any suggestions on policy/religion effects?