Emperor Cookbook I: Ghandi
- Thread starter ChromiumL
- Start date
KingMorgan
Deity
PLEASE LABEL YOUR SAVE WITH YOU NAME.
Several points have been deducted in my system as your name was not on your save/screen and i'm too lazy to chase about to find out who you are.
Here are my scores.
Carl Corey = 1st
Mr Morph = 2nd
RJM = 3rd
An unnamed save would have taken 3rd, but there was a points deduction.
The only thing that worries me about Carls save is the upcoming strike / crashed ecom.
I liked a few other saves that hadn't rushed yet, but had writing already and axes on the border. Sorias save was also good, just missed out for not having writing.
Several points have been deducted in my system as your name was not on your save/screen and i'm too lazy to chase about to find out who you are.
Here are my scores.
Carl Corey = 1st
Mr Morph = 2nd
RJM = 3rd
An unnamed save would have taken 3rd, but there was a points deduction.
The only thing that worries me about Carls save is the upcoming strike / crashed ecom.
I liked a few other saves that hadn't rushed yet, but had writing already and axes on the border. Sorias save was also good, just missed out for not having writing.
My votes:
Carl Corey : 1st
Soirana: 2nd
KingMorgan : 3rd
Carl's was clearly the best early rush save. I disagree with KingMorgan about the second best warmongering save. Soirana has Writing already which I think is more important than Mr. Morph's extra gold (which isn't enough to get him to writing). I liked KingMorgan's 3 cities and a upcoming rush which shouldn't put us in quite as much of a hole as the others.
Carl Corey : 1st
Soirana: 2nd
KingMorgan : 3rd
Carl's was clearly the best early rush save. I disagree with KingMorgan about the second best warmongering save. Soirana has Writing already which I think is more important than Mr. Morph's extra gold (which isn't enough to get him to writing). I liked KingMorgan's 3 cities and a upcoming rush which shouldn't put us in quite as much of a hole as the others.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Hi all,
Sorry i am late
Cheers,
Raskolnikov
Sorry i am late
Spoiler :
Cheers,
Raskolnikov
Bleys
Deity
I also vote for Carls (seems a given now), although since I didnt submit a legal round (I have the with-huts version, I got 2 techs, and the Tin event in the cap, LOL) so my vote may not count. I am planning to submit a real save next round, since it doesnt matter if I know certain things like where the copper and horses are, where the AIs are, etc.
There seem to have been three choices for the first tech - agriculture, bronze working or one out of meditation and polytheism in order to found a religion. At lower levels I'd be willing to go for a religion, but at emperor level without additional commerce I wonder whether this is too risky. So if you go for a religion, do you have to sacrifice growth by working the grassland by the river? The price seems too high to me, given that you could still lose the race; what do others think?
If you go BW first and build a fast worker, you can mine the sheep and perhaps pre-chop some forest until you discover agriculture. In this case, there is copper within easy reach and things work out well. But in a lot of my games there is no easy access to copper so presumably there needs to be a plan B.
Agriculture and fast worker gives you plenty to do with the worker - farming the corn and the grassland for example. That will allow growth to size 2 in 7 turns. I was very happy to go Agric followed by AH because it allowed me to pasture the sheep and put me close to writing. However, that doesn't suit the axe rush planned by our aggressive friends.
RJM
If you go BW first and build a fast worker, you can mine the sheep and perhaps pre-chop some forest until you discover agriculture. In this case, there is copper within easy reach and things work out well. But in a lot of my games there is no easy access to copper so presumably there needs to be a plan B.
Agriculture and fast worker gives you plenty to do with the worker - farming the corn and the grassland for example. That will allow growth to size 2 in 7 turns. I was very happy to go Agric followed by AH because it allowed me to pasture the sheep and put me close to writing. However, that doesn't suit the axe rush planned by our aggressive friends.
RJM
So many good saves...
Here is my vote:
1st (overall best) - King Morgan -- The rush may be too little too late, but at least the economy is under control. Also, I like the city placement (perhaps because it is almost the same as my save
).
2nd (overall 2nd) - Mklh -- Lots of nice cities, but behind on tech. It is particularly worrisome that pottery hasn't been discovered yet.
3rd (just because) - RJM -- great tech, already have a GS settled. Very very little military though, which is not good news with a neighbor like Shaka.
I didn't chose to vote on any of the rush saves because in all of them the economy is going to take at least the next round to recover. If I were to vote on a save with a rush, I would probably pick Mr. Morph because he was lucky enough to get Stonehenge from Shaka. He is a little behind Carl tech wise, but I think is in a better place to recover.
Here is my vote:
1st (overall best) - King Morgan -- The rush may be too little too late, but at least the economy is under control. Also, I like the city placement (perhaps because it is almost the same as my save
). 2nd (overall 2nd) - Mklh -- Lots of nice cities, but behind on tech. It is particularly worrisome that pottery hasn't been discovered yet.
3rd (just because) - RJM -- great tech, already have a GS settled. Very very little military though, which is not good news with a neighbor like Shaka.
I didn't chose to vote on any of the rush saves because in all of them the economy is going to take at least the next round to recover. If I were to vote on a save with a rush, I would probably pick Mr. Morph because he was lucky enough to get Stonehenge from Shaka. He is a little behind Carl tech wise, but I think is in a better place to recover.
@ RJM --
I think Agriculture is probably the best choice overall (even though I chose to found a religion instead). Growth is important, and if you grow faster, you can get to BW quicker, and are then in a better spot to either a) build a settler to found a city by bronze or b) start building axemen. (Assuming it is your plan to rush someone)
I picked to found a religion because it has worked very well for me in just about every game I play with a leader that starts with mysticism (though I haven't every played at Emperor level). Religions are great for the economy in the mid/late game. Of course, you could also just capture the city that founded a religion and then you don't have to go take the risk on the early religion.
I think with Shaka as a neighbor, if you don't rush and kill him right away, you would do best by converting him to your religion. I haven't ever had Shaka backstab me (as long as I gave in to some of his demands--or have a mutual war enemy) when he was my religion. He also makes a great war ally, as he seems ineffective in capturing cities, but still sends floods of units to distract while you sneak in and take what you want.
Is founding an early religion really that bad at the higher levels? Is it really all that much better to overextend with a rush and have a crippled economy and poor tech rate as a result?
I think Agriculture is probably the best choice overall (even though I chose to found a religion instead). Growth is important, and if you grow faster, you can get to BW quicker, and are then in a better spot to either a) build a settler to found a city by bronze or b) start building axemen. (Assuming it is your plan to rush someone)
I picked to found a religion because it has worked very well for me in just about every game I play with a leader that starts with mysticism (though I haven't every played at Emperor level). Religions are great for the economy in the mid/late game. Of course, you could also just capture the city that founded a religion and then you don't have to go take the risk on the early religion.
I think with Shaka as a neighbor, if you don't rush and kill him right away, you would do best by converting him to your religion. I haven't ever had Shaka backstab me (as long as I gave in to some of his demands--or have a mutual war enemy) when he was my religion. He also makes a great war ally, as he seems ineffective in capturing cities, but still sends floods of units to distract while you sneak in and take what you want
.Is founding an early religion really that bad at the higher levels? Is it really all that much better to overextend with a rush and have a crippled economy and poor tech rate as a result?
Monsterzuma
the sly one
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A bit of a strange remark IMO. King Morgan has a tech rate of 7 beaker/turn. If each of us "rushers" puts each of our workers (we have 5 on average) to 6 turns of cottaging and redirects a tile from every city to a grassland river cottage, we have a tech rate higher than Morgan's in six turns.
TheMeInTeam
If A implies B...
- Joined
- Jan 26, 2008
- Messages
- 27,995
Carl's save. Economy be damned for now. We get enough good city sites, we win. It's not like he's gonna strike.
Monsterzuma
the sly one
- Joined
- Jun 1, 2008
- Messages
- 2,984
My votes:
1. Carl Corey
2. Soirana
3. Mr. Morph
Would have considered a non-rush save, but I just don't see any that can compete with the huge advantage of having Shaka out of the way and owning 5 cities by 1500 BC.
1. Carl Corey
2. Soirana
3. Mr. Morph
Would have considered a non-rush save, but I just don't see any that can compete with the huge advantage of having Shaka out of the way and owning 5 cities by 1500 BC.
carl corey
Deity
Here's a summary comparison of the different saves. Raskolnikov's been submitted after voting started so I'm not sure whether to include it or not. Due to the big number of saves, some of which were without your names on, I might have made some errors when looking through them. Please tell me if there's anything wrong (or if I missed a save...) and feel free to complete with your own remarks on each save. I'm putting this in a spoiler since it's pretty long.
Spoiler :
carl corey
Deity
Ranking:
1. Mr.Morph (5 cities; Shaka--; Stonehenge; GG)
2. Monsterzuma (4 cities - so close...; Shaka--; Stonehenge; close to level 4 axe; Hunting vs Morph's AH; great finances)
3. carl corey (4 cities; Shaka--; level 4 axe opens Heroic Epic)
4. Soirana (4 cities; Shaka to be killed but not a problem; level 4 axe; no AH compared to my save; good finances)
5. Berkobob (no rush yet)
Votes: 3 points for Mr.Morph, 2 for Monsterzuma, 1 for Soirana.
-----
I have a question: why on earth are people voting for my save over Mr.Morph's or Monsterzuma's? Both those saves have captured Stonehenge while mine didn't. Yeah, I know, I'm fighting against my own save, but I feel both mentioned above are better.
1. Mr.Morph (5 cities; Shaka--; Stonehenge; GG)
2. Monsterzuma (4 cities - so close...; Shaka--; Stonehenge; close to level 4 axe; Hunting vs Morph's AH; great finances)
3. carl corey (4 cities; Shaka--; level 4 axe opens Heroic Epic)
4. Soirana (4 cities; Shaka to be killed but not a problem; level 4 axe; no AH compared to my save; good finances)
5. Berkobob (no rush yet)
Votes: 3 points for Mr.Morph, 2 for Monsterzuma, 1 for Soirana.
-----
I have a question: why on earth are people voting for my save over Mr.Morph's or Monsterzuma's? Both those saves have captured Stonehenge while mine didn't. Yeah, I know, I'm fighting against my own save, but I feel both mentioned above are better.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Hi everyone!
i don't mind my save not being taken into account... I am here to learn... no problems as I was late. I willl try to play the secound round in time ...
A lot of early rush saves! as mine... but some are really well implemented (I had only the time to build the army as Berkobob it seems)... i am thinking of Monsterzuma, Mr Morph and Carl Corey who have all successfully rushed Shaka... nice job!
My votes are 1 Mr Morph 2 Carl 3 Monsterzuma (I dislike your Bombay placement but nice job overall)... Soriana has also submitted a nice round, it was really hard to come up with only 3 votes
Also first lesson: I teched AH early and that seems to be a mistake (i usually play marathon and that seems more forgiving): those who have mined the sheep were able to raise an army sooner than what I was able...
looking forward to the next round!
Cheers,
Raskolnikov
i don't mind my save not being taken into account... I am here to learn... no problems as I was late. I willl try to play the secound round in time
...A lot of early rush saves! as mine... but some are really well implemented (I had only the time to build the army as Berkobob it seems)... i am thinking of Monsterzuma, Mr Morph and Carl Corey who have all successfully rushed Shaka... nice job!
My votes are 1 Mr Morph 2 Carl 3 Monsterzuma (I dislike your Bombay placement but nice job overall)... Soriana has also submitted a nice round, it was really hard to come up with only 3 votes
Also first lesson: I teched AH early and that seems to be a mistake (i usually play marathon and that seems more forgiving): those who have mined the sheep were able to raise an army sooner than what I was able...
looking forward to the next round!
Cheers,
Raskolnikov
Carl corey points out that my saved position will be pretty much worthless if the capital is captured by the approaching barb archer. Perhaps someone could help me evaluate the odds here. The archer has strength 3. My warrior has strength 2 with a 25% fortify bonus and a 25% city defense bonus. AFAIK this gives my warrior an effective strength that is also 3. In addition, there is a 40% bonus from culture in Delhi. How does this work? Does it add .8 to the effective strength of the warrior? Assuming it does add in this way, we have strength 3 vs strength 3.8. How does this translate into probability of winning? How is the probability affected by the archers first strike capability? From previous game experience, I believe the odds are heavily in my favour, but is this true?
RJM
RJM
carl corey
Deity
RJM, that was a bit of a joke. You do indeed have good odds, plus you have the population to pop a second warrior and be beyond problems for now. Well, unless the random generator gods *really* dislike you. 
I almost lost one of the cities I captured from Shaka to a barb archer, but popped a warrior just in time and it won even without cultural defenses or fortify bonus. The criticism of your save has more to do with the fact that early on what you want is land (settlers), workers and military => production. Tech comes in second, so working scientists to get a GS that early is most probably not best play as it slows your production. (Wonders are another thing, but we have no multipliers for wonders in this game - until we connect the marble - so our hammers are better spent elsewhere.)
I almost lost one of the cities I captured from Shaka to a barb archer, but popped a warrior just in time and it won even without cultural defenses or fortify bonus. The criticism of your save has more to do with the fact that early on what you want is land (settlers), workers and military => production. Tech comes in second, so working scientists to get a GS that early is most probably not best play as it slows your production. (Wonders are another thing, but we have no multipliers for wonders in this game - until we connect the marble - so our hammers are better spent elsewhere.)RJM, that was a bit of a joke. You do indeed have good odds, plus you have the population to pop a second warrior and be beyond problems for now. Well, unless the random generator gods *really* dislike you.
I wasn't seeking to defend my save - I've played the early moves again and there is plenty of room for improvement. I need to try increasing early production and taking the hit on tech researh.
However, I was seeking enlightenment as to the mechanics of conflict - how the cultural bonus works, how the first strike works and how it all translates into probability.
RJM
carl corey
Deity
Ta - and since I have to lengthen this message, let me add very much.
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