Emperor Cookbook II: Mehmed II

[Bleys]

This is going to be a fun game for me, thats for sure, I think Mehmed is the best non-FIN TRE leader in the game.

Spoiler :

The biggest problem with Mehmed on a map like this is getting to the GLH, however, once built, its game over, but a lot of fun to finish out.

The reason Mehmed is so strong is simple. Double-speed buildings. Those Granaries, Lighthouses, Courthouses, Harbors and even Factories at this level go up FAST. Seafood = Commerce + food. I prefer a Clam over unirragated Rice, because of the commerce bump (which is why FIN is generally thought to be very strong for water heavy maps).

So I settled in place, and teched Fishing while building a Warrior. When the Warrior was done, I went Workboat, Worker, Workboat (chopped), Warrior, Warrior, Workboat, Settler, Settler, Lighthouse, GLH, with another Worker inserted to whip-overflow into the GLH.

I teched Fishing (3750), Mining (3475), BW (2975), AH (2550), Myst (2375), Sailing (2075), Masonry (1825), Hunting (1625), Pottery (done in 8 turns).

Meanwhile, my exploration proved very interesting for a Fractal map, and it became apparent very quickly that the GLH must be secured at all costs.


As I explored, I found Toku, and a killer blocking city:

Spoiler :

. . . and Shaka met me by boat, however I did see a scout or 2 later, so he is on the same landmass. Happy happy, eh, lets hope hes not WAY far away with lots of land in his area, or Domination becomes difficult. He scares me a lot more the farther away he is.

Spoiler :

I I also found a pretty decent spot for a junk-resource city, with room for another early happy-face city to the West:

Spoiler :

These are the 2 cities I managed to settle. Building my 3rd settler now, planning to whip it into the GLH.

Spoiler :

I also have an extra WB out there, roaming around to find Islands to settle. The best part of those "other landmass" cities is they practically pay for themselves the turn they are founded (slider ~50% is break even for most pre-Currency/Courthouse).

And here is my Cap, not bad, got 50ish hammers into the GLH now, should be plenty of time (I dont start panicking until 1200, earliest):

Spoiler :

Assuming we get the GLH here (and it should be a lock, going to whip another settler into it, and chop one more forest), getting to techs like Currency (likely to be bulbed by our first GP, a Merchant), CoL (founding Confu wouldnt suck, but we dont need it), Compass (since half-priced Harbors help those TRs), we should be able to REX as hard as we can until we run out of land (including the settlable Islands to the East:

Spoiler :

With Marble in play, we should consider a Wonder path early. I like Marble more than Stone, personally. I think the ToA is in play, and the GLibrary should be a piece of cake as well.

Overall, I am pleased with the progress. Soon we will have metal for Barb control (they are starting to act up) and Marble, making the Aesthetics-Lit path strong.

 

[ChromiumL]

This is definitely going to be an interesting map...

Spoiler :

I decided to really focus on micro-managing more than I usually do, and I think it definitely paid off.

My tech path was Fishing-> Mining-> BW-> Pottery-> Sailing-> Masonry-> Mysticism-> Writing (14 turns)

Build in Istanbul was Warrior-> Work Boat-> Warrior->Settler (whip)-> Granary-> Work Boat (whip)-> Worker (whip) -> Lighthouse-> Settler-> GLH (27 turns)

Build in Edirne was Warrior -> Granary (whip) -> Worker -> Monument (19 turns)

4000 BC - Founded Istanbul in place and sent warrior exploring to the NE.

3725 BC - Sent new warrior (built in Istanbul) to explore NW. My other warrior sticks around the pigs spot in the NE to fogbust

3650 BC - Met Toka's scout to the W... Oh boy...

3525 BC - Find Toka's borders to the NW... looks like a great spot for a clams/gold/corn city to block his growth

3000 BC - Get BW and revolt to Slavery

2525 BC - Found Edirne in the Gold/Corn/Clam spot that blocks Toka

2175 BC - Met Shaka's work boat to the E of Istanbul

1900 BC - Finally find copper in the SW... crummy city site, but I think it has to come next.

Thats pretty much all of the important stuff. I have a settler sitting on the spot where I think the Copper city should be (I think getting the fish is more important than the marble). GLH is 27 turns away, and I have a worker on the way to chop another forest and build another mine for Istanbul. I have a little bit of a happiness issue there right now, so I am not able to work both clams. This hurts my science rate, but I figure that getting the GLH is my main priority since the Great Wall and Stonehenge have both already been built. There is a barb city that popped up to the NE of Edirne--should be good for giving my axes some practice .

Some pretty pics:

Istanbul:

Spoiler :

Edirne:

Spoiler :

Spot for new city:

Spoiler :

Tech Situation:

Spoiler :

Pros--

On my way to GLH and third copper city
Granaries built in both Istanbul and Edirne
Good tech

Cons--

Weak military and will be a while until I can connect up that copper and build some axes

*EDIT* Blah... just figured out that you can fit marble/fish/copper in same city--still not sure if its worth it though--It might be better to have all the food of the sea...

 

[ChromiumL]

@ Bleys (and anyone else who has finished the round):

Spoiler :

You really got a lot more done than me. The biggest difference between your builds and mine seem to be that I built granaries while you built other things... are the granaries a bad move this early in the game? I am beginning to think so after growing so fast that I keep bumping into happiness issues in Istanbul.

Also, in the past I have tried switching to a non-wonder build and whipping it and letting the overflow go to an already half built wonder, and, in the past it hasn't seemed to work for me. Is there something I am missing?

 

[Bleys]

@Chrom:

Spoiler :

... are the granaries a bad move this early in the game? I am beginning to think so after growing so fast that I keep bumping into happiness issues in Istanbul.

Also, I have tried switching to a non-wonder build and whipping it and letting the overflow go to an already half built wonder, and, in the past it hasn't seemed to work for me. Is there something I am missing?

I play maps like this non-stop, so I have a strong feel for them. Seafood is the bomb. Lighthouse makes them huge tiles, and during the first 100 turns its just as you say, you actually grow TOO fast. You cant whip enough to keep up with the growth without the Granary, since 1-2 and 3-4 are very small jumps. Once you are trying to get your cities over 5, the Granary begins to shine, and in new cities, where you dont really need to have growth-whip cycles when growing from 1 to whatever your cap is. For now, though, its more of a PITA to micro-manage down because your growing too fast for the whip anger.

In regard to whipping into Wonders, its a very easy once you get the hang of it. Its all about the 2-pop whip at this point in the game, where your happy cap is still pretty low. When you are about to grow over the happy cap, you stick a Settler or Worker in front of the Wonder. Then, the turn before it goes to a 1-pop whip (on Epic speed, thats 103 of 149 for a Settler with no production modifiers), you do a 2-pop whip. That sends the overflow hammers into the Wonder, and gives you room to grow 1 pop back before you have to worry about stifling growth again. It kind of ties in with the early Granary thing. Whip anger will start to fade as you grow back 1 pop, then you can pull off the high-food tiles and work mines while you slowly grow the 2nd pop back. When the whip anger fades, you get another slot under the cap, so you can juggle your Wonder-Worker/Settler combo in the queue back and forth, so you're always ready to 2-pop whip.

This tactic isnt just for Wonders either. With all the half-priced buildings this leader has, you can REALLY get a lot of bang for your whipped/chopped buck.

 

[KingMorgan]

Heres my effort,

Spoiler :

Settled in place, scout to Toks borders, not the best land i've ever seen. Met shaka and Tokw. Settled a blocking city by the gold. Capital built worker, 2 workboats, lighthouse and building GreatLight. Only warriors at the mo.

View attachment KingMorgan BC-1500.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[DHeisman]

Hey guys, long time Civ4 (and other Civs as well) player but this is my first post. This looked cool so I thought I would give it a try.

Here is my attempt:

Spoiler :

So I settled 2 cities total, first one up near the gold, second one down near the marble and bronze.

My current plan is to chop the pyramids up at the top city while I get the copper at the bottom city to get some axes for defense. Not too sure what to do with my main city after it finishes the work boat. Maybe finish granary or go for the great lighthouse (maybe even pump out another worker??). I have 3 workers total so far.

5 turns to go on writing, after that alphabet I think. Here's what my techs look like:

Anyways, I am not very good at explaining my plans. If you have questions about my stuff let me know. Hopefully I didn't do anything too dumb.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Welcome in cfc DHeisman...

 

[DHeisman]

Thanks, glad to be here. I am hoping to learn some civ4 skills! I am not much of a warmonger so most of my pitfalls come when I don't build enough military.

 

[vicawoo]

Wonders are for weenies

Spoiler :

After hearing about some emphasis on seafood, I decided to do something different. Worker first, animal husbandry fishing mining bw. Yes, my worker has nothing to do for awhile.

My warrior explored north early, and when he turned around got trapped by a bear and killed. So much for early scouting. Taking a page from the book of Attacko, after my worker finishes, he scouts. I'm gambling that bears = no wolves. I don't scout the copper until nearly the end of the round, and I end up wasting some tech on iron working.

Warrior workboat, warrior finds tokugawa, and at size 3 my settler runs to block tokugawa. Tech archery due to fear of barbarians and prechop some forests to get out a quick archer. 3rd settler goes north to the pig/corn/ivory, but there's a barbarian camping there and I have to wait for my archer to clear him. 4th settler being sent to the south to the copper, I saw a spearman so I may have to settle the non-marble site.

Pics later.

 

[oyzar]

Maybe spoiler tag that vicawoo ?

 

[RJM]

Spoiler :

In regard to whipping into Wonders, its a very easy once you get the hang of it. Its all about the 2-pop whip at this point in the game, where your happy cap is still pretty low. When you are about to grow over the happy cap, you stick a Settler or Worker in front of the Wonder. Then, the turn before it goes to a 1-pop whip (on Epic speed, thats 103 of 149 for a Settler with no production modifiers), you do a 2-pop whip. That sends the overflow hammers into the Wonder, and gives you room to grow 1 pop back before you have to worry about stifling growth again. It kind of ties in with the early Granary thing. Whip anger will start to fade as you grow back 1 pop, then you can pull off the high-food tiles and work mines while you slowly grow the 2nd pop back. When the whip anger fades, you get another slot under the cap, so you can juggle your Wonder-Worker/Settler combo in the queue back and forth, so you're always ready to 2-pop whip.

This tactic isnt just for Wonders either. With all the half-priced buildings this leader has, you can REALLY get a lot of bang for your whipped/chopped buck.

Spoiler :

It seems to me that this technique slows down the production of the wonder, although it gives you a relatively cheap settler or worker. The best overflow seems to me to be around 55 hammers. It's not easy to get to exactly 103, so the overflow could be less than this. 55 hammers is fewer than the hammers sacrificed in the turns it takes to get a settler to 103 hammers - in this case around 7 turns which would have put 77 hammers into the wonder. It seems to me that the time to build the wonder increases by about 2 turns each time you use this technique.

RJM

 

[KingMorgan]

@RJM

Spoiler :

There is a few guide in the Strat forum that has a fancy pages of maths proving the mechincs of whipping and how good it is!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=154872

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=159109

 

[MkLh]

To 1500Bc:

Spoiler :

I skipped fishing and the seafood and went worker->worker->settler and mining->BW -route instead, because an article in Sevopedia says it's the optimal way. I don't know if it is when there are seafood and mining is not a starting tech (the first worker was idle for 10 turns waiting for BW). It's anyway quite fast way to get the second city up AND a worker to improve it. Second city was a gold city blocking Toku, and third city will connect bronze. Teching line was mining->bw->fishing->AH->mysticism->pottery->writing. Archery didn't seem necessary cause map is not land heavy, warriors in pairs dealt few barb archers.

View attachment 194937

 

[DHeisman]

Looking at Bleys's play of the turns it looks very similar to mine except he has a much better plan, lol.

 

[pigswill]

I looked at the spoilers after finishing my round but before posting this. Another variant on a common theme:

Spoiler :

Settled in place. Initial builds:warrior >WB >WB >worker >warrior >settler >part rax> settler >WB >LH, started Glight.
Founded Edirne 2550bc in gold/clam/corn blocking spot. Built mon >WB >worker >axe (freshly whipped).
Founded Ankara 2000bc 1 south of copper, figuring I wanted copper in first ring, would get fish on first expansion and marble would be available on second expansion which should be in time for Glib. Built monument>axe.
Units: 3 warriors, 3 workers, WB (waiting in Ankara for border pop), axe (another axe next turn).
Techs: fishing >mining >BW >AH >myst >sailing >masonry >writing (long way to go).

 

[Bleys]

It seems to me that this technique slows down the production of the wonder, although it gives you a relatively cheap settler or worker. The best overflow seems to me to be around 55 hammers. It's not easy to get to exactly 103, so the overflow could be less than this. 55 hammers is fewer than the hammers sacrificed in the turns it takes to get a settler to 103 hammers - in this case around 7 turns which would have put 77 hammers into the wonder. It seems to me that the time to build the wonder increases by about 2 turns each time you use this technique.
RJM

Whip overflow isnt always about speeding up the Wonder, its about maintaining a relatively high level of expansion and non-Wonder production (mainly workers and settlers) while building the Wonder.

Thats why I tend to start Wonders very early. I know they are going to take a few extra turns, but its so important to get those Settlers and Workers out that its worth the small delays. It also allows you to work the best tiles more consistently. Stifling growth with a non-growth build (again, our friendly worker and settler) is the only way to do this, if you straight-build the wonder, you will be forced to stagnate growth with tiles instead. Why not use the better, high-food + commerce tiles to build these things instead of the low-yield non-commerce tiles like a Grass Hill Mine. I am not a big numbers guy, I tend to play by feel and instinct, combined with tons of practice.

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

It seems to me that the time to build the wonder increases by about 2 turns each time you use this technique.

This is not necesarly true if you are using OR, have a production bonus from a resource, or are IND... (instant overflow get the bonus and can decrease the build time)

Cheers,
Raskolnikov

 

[DHeisman]

Am I the only person who hears the Devo song Whip It in my head every time I hurry production?

 

[RRRaskolnikov]

Am I the only person who hears the Devo song Whip It in my head every time I hurry production?

I didn't know that, but the clip is really
"I said whip it... whip it good..."

 

[Supr49er]

Welcome to the Forums DHeisman.