Emperor Cookbook Shaka

[pawelo]

@kossin

No problem - your save is strong enough for a Prince player to win from here while still learning. I wouldn't remove it from voting, let the people decide and if someone wants to learn more, he may still shadow from another save and share with others.

 

[huerfanista]

As I'm starting to feel a bit more confident on Immortal, I could remove my save from the voting round if people feel there will not be much to learn going from it.

Please don't. If the consensus is that a more challenging save should be played, it'll show up in the voting. Or not.

 

[mjg5591]

I plan on playing my round tonight. In about 2 hours or so. Been quite busy watching my phillies lose the World Series. And other online games. I just got done my emp walkthrough for my washington game. After I write it up I'll play this round.

 

[Gumbolt]

I always love to see what Kossin does with the saves. I am happy for it to be in the voting. As for the crashed economies. I think you have to learn to deal with these.

Spoiler :

When most saves get court houses and currency the economies will recover.

I will hold round for mjg! The more saves the better really. Perhaps close the round Saturday morning GMT time.

 

[mjg5591]

TO 400AD

Spoiler :

Wow that was stressful. Had units go on strike. Attacked with 4% odds to fend of strike. Winning 2 of these battles.

Started off by deleting 2 warriors. Also didn't settle west city, worried about maintenance. Used the settler to fogbust.

I got the 2 workers back to shaka lands safe. Also killed a settler and got that worker back safe.

Tech path finished writing, Aest (this move would come back to hurt me), Math bulbed, currency, PH ( to open trade for monarchy with Kubai, he wouldn't trade right away but I got later), CoL, Poly, Lit, I have it set on CS but no beakers in it 0% slider.


925BC I got peace from gigles to reorganize units and heal.

800BC OB Kubai

575BC Redeclare on Gigles. Had 10-12 units going for Uruk.

In 470BC I rased Kish. Went to Uruk had 7 archers on hill 50% culture. So went after other cities.

425BC GS pops and I bulbed math. Not optimal but needed to get some techs for trasding soon.

365BC Raze Lagash City south of copper city. 5 workers in it.

350BC GG pops and I make Super medic Impi.

320BC I delete ther 5 workers. Units close to going on strike.

230BC Raze Eridu. Copper city. Looking back I should have kept. Kubai already settled new city. And he is getting huge 15 cities already.

170BC Meet Charlie and OB.

95BC Units on strike. So I go all out after Uruk. Lose about 6-8 units but also take city. Giggles last. I actually won 1-2 battles at 4-6% odds.

35BC Anopther GS pops and this is where my techg path killed me. I bulb alpha with him. As no one has it yet.

20BC Currency in and I go to wealth in alot of cities. Also trade alpha to charlie for IW fishing, and 50gold.

5BC Math to Kubai for med, arc, and 80gold. Really made this for the gold.

115AD Finally settle west city.

160AD Convert to hindu as it spread.

220AD Kubaio finally willing to trade monarchy. I give him aest. Also aest to charlie for sailing masonry and 70 gold.

340AD Forogt to adopt HR. So I do now.

370AD Chopped SoZ in Uruk.

Thinking Uruk as HE.

Alsop have settler coming towards Uruk to maybe settle iron/pig city.

Here some screenshots.

Kubai is getting big. Both charlie and kubai are pleased with us.

My goal was to kill Giggles at all costs the right the economy. I cottaged everywhere as my workers ran out of things to do. Economy is Still in tank I think. Just whipped courthouse in uruk.

Here is the save. Any comments ore help in my play good and bad welcome. Trying to learn emperor still.

 

[mjg5591]

@kossin

Spoiler :

Wow nice save. Also niced idea to move capital. And I made the mistake of bulbing math and aplha. Academy and settled would have been better.

 

[mjg5591]

@gumbolt

Spoiler :

Wow philo in 400ad. Nice going. Also war already with KK is insane. Wish I would have kept eridu like most of the other players did.

 

[mjg5591]

@huer

Spoiler :

Good thinking about settling the corn/gem city. I left the settler to the west to fogbust. Settled when economy weas better. Looking back this was a real nice move. I learned something from that.

@cabet

Spoiler :

Nice idea about going for colussus. Since we have many coastal cities, this could help economy tremdously.

@pawelo

Spoiler :

Your save isn't that bad. If need to see bad save check mine out. I only have 6 cities. I also razed the copper city and kubai already settled it. I also wasted 2 GS on alpha and math. I thought this was good idea at the time as I am ahead of KK and charlie in tech. But as kossin pointed out in another post, long term this will hurt. My next GS has ways to go and Philo will be gone i fear by then.

 

[pawelo]

@mjg

Spoiler :

Your play isn't bad at all and your tech is good pacing. With some reconfiguration you should be hitting CS soon.

A pity you didn't block KK and let him settle south of Uruk. Bulbing Alpha and Math ain't always a bad idea - if you were going for early Construction it would've been OK - you don't need a fancy academy while killing people around

 

[mc-red]

Some good saves especially Kossin.
I wish I had time to play and get a vote but I have a number of PBEMs and SG's that have picked up. Hopefully, I will get back in next round.

 

[Gumbolt]

We will go ahead and vote for the next 2-3 days. Hopefully finish by Sunday/Monday or when all that have played have voted. Its not always about voting for the best save but the save that will be most interesting or challenging to play. Anyone that submitted a save is free to vote.

Please rank your top 3 in order.

First place 3 points.
Second place 2 points
Third place. 1 point.

PLEASE NOTE!! To keep voting fair you cant vote for your own save. You are expected to vote for 3 saves and give reasons for your voting. Remember this is a learning game. I would encourage everyone to act within the spirit that the cookbook is intended.

Anyway here are the saves:

MJG5591

Warmonger

Solon70

Heurfanista

Steve250

WFU03

Gumbolt

Pawelo

Cabert

Kossin

Voting will end on Sunday 6pm GMT or at the point where everyone from this round has voted or there is a clear winner.

 

[Gumbolt]

For me there is a save which is clearly best but do we go with that or a more challenging save? Overall the objective should be to win the game but hopefully not by the end of the third round.

That being said a catapult/phant assault on KK would be fun whatever save we pick!!

 

[huerfanista]

Overall the objective should be to win the game but hopefully not by the end of the third round.

I don't think that will be a problem. We're only playing up to 1100AD, right?

 

[kossin]

Since there weren't as many saves as the first round, I went through every one and wrote some comments...
My impression on the saves:

kossin

Spoiler :

The city W of the Capital is poorly placed, but it was settled prior to the knowledge of IW, in my defence. Workers are idle and should be spreading irrigation a bit around the homeland instead :S There's more to say but I'll leave that to someone else.

Cabert

Spoiler :

Low city count. Gilgamesh was purposely left alive for Diplo, but at the same time he takes at least 1 good city spot and adds unhappiness to his former cities. KK has Ivory while we don't. Cities a bit lacking on improvements due to only 5 workers.

Pawelo

Spoiler :

Techs/economy are hurting a bit, missing on some trades because of it. Markets are coming up for an extra 19gpt. kwaDukuza is in a great spot and well improved already. Charley creeped up a bit on Gilgamesh's former lands unfortunately but a city there is still possible. 8 workers is OK but more will be needed once CS comes in for irrigation. Not having Sailing while your neighbors do and having OB agreement with them is giving them a HUGE advantage, especially KK with GLH, while not helping your economy (It's worth 9 extra per turn!).

Gumbolt

Spoiler :

Nice Philo bulb, but there isn't much to trade for it atm, moreover it's lacking Currency - resulting in a still near-crashed economy. War with KK is a ??? A true warmonger at heart... reminds me of TMIT when he started posting on the forums (while I was lurking and doing the exact opposite ). Some unhappiness (3 in 1 city?) Wineries are non-existent even though Monarchy has been known for a good time. Does not have the gems city and some tiles assignment puzzle me. Good amount of workers but a 17gpt units upkeep hurts. Oh and btw, you're up in the SG

WFU03

Spoiler :

Gilg's capital has not yet fallen and some Vultures are running around. Empire is cut in half. kwaDukuza not in the best spot, like mine. I would have taken peace for techs with Gilgamesh a few times and then finish him off when his units move out of the city. 4 workers is clearly not enough. MC could be good if The Colossus is built. Happiness is an issue but can be fixed in 3 turns by trading for Monarchy.

Steve250

Spoiler :

Gilgamesh is still a major issue but the Economy is in a decent shape to make up for it. 8 workers is okay but they are pretty bunched together making newer cities take more time to develop. KK is nowhere near Feudalism so his cities are ripe for the taking.

Huerfanista

Spoiler :

Sleeping workers that could improve Gems instead? Research is really hurting, I'm guessing (haven't looked at the reports while writing this) that the war did not go so well. Again, having OB and no connection to the Capital is costing an arm in , you're getting 1 trade route with KK while he probably gets a ton. 2 things to do: scout KK to his Capital (this is the 'secret' of trade routes, though you may not need it if the tile you uncovered is culture-connected to it) and get Sailing early.

Solon70

Spoiler :

War not over yet, the Capital is still standing (should be done in 10 turns) and the Economy is still crashing. This results in the Empire cut in half and not lucrative foreign trade routes for most cities. 34 gpt in units upkeep and support is killing you, delete as many as possible, whip cities so you need less MPs.

Warmonger

Spoiler :

Low city count and research is hurting. 2 in the Capital should have been whipped. Why didn't you revolt to Hinduism? Every city has it and you'll get good Diplo with your neighbors. Way too many units sitting around in Uruk, deisband them or use them, it's killing the economy. Monarchy is not what you should be teching as both your neighbors will trade it, Currency is a better choice.

MJG5591

Spoiler :

Low city count but OTOH economy is doing fine, starting on CS. I understand the need for building TGL, but without Marble, it takes forever and you may end up losing it at this time in the game. Unfortunately KK got the Ivory spot so taking on him from here will be harder.kwaDukuza is well placed here as well. Could trade for KK's 4 gpt.

@all

Spoiler :

I'm not sure where luck changed the end result, but some things I've noticed in general:
-watch for unhappiness. unhappy citizens do nothing beside cost more upkeep. You're better off to stagnate the city than let it grow (or whip it after growing).
-watch for resource trades, especially for gpt. This can really boost your economy and gives diplo points.
-in the same line of thought, never neglect foreign trade routes. Teching sailing early while your workers are busy is an easy way to get them. You also need to scout to connect your trade network to the AI's capital's trade network or you won't get all of his trade routes.
-beg for money and run the slider higher, obviously this is random.
-Currency is almost always the best economic recovery tech and you should beeline it.
-For upcoming Emperor players: Upkeep is a lot higher than on Monarch and you can't tech everything by yourself. It's very rare that you have to tech Monarchy, you can almost always trade for it. Of course you'll learn the AI's tendencies with experience, such as never teching Aesthetics early.

As for my vote:

1st - Steve250. While Gilgamesh is still alive, he's can be brought to Pleased easily and has HR as favorite civic so we're safe from him while we concentrate on weakening KK.
2nd - Pawelo - Since the economy is turning around 0% research, having Markets will be a big boost. Trade routes can be fixed on turn 0.
3rd - MJG5591 - Starting on CS soon will further improve the Economy. Lacking Ivory city or I would have ranked it second.

 

[cabert]

my votes

kossin, for a really well fixed economy gets 3 votes
MJG for an almost equally well fixed economy gets 2 votes
Pawelo for a quite reasonnable state of union gets 1 vote.

 

[huerfanista]

1. Kossin

Spoiler :

Great tech situation, with monarchy, CS, most of construction. Far and away the best save of the bunch. 163 at -2gpt is great, and will still get construction in 4 turns. Courthouses in the 2 key cities (Uruk and Eridu).
Poor city sites:
- Kwadukuza should have been 1SE, it could work 3 grass hills + iron and have the same number of grasslands, and would have been an excellent production city with good as well. I understand that the iron wasn't visible when you settled, but you gave away 2 grass hills and gained a bunch of ocean tiles in settling where you did.
- Nodwengu should have been placed 2S of the pigs. It would be a dynamite production city with lots of food. The current site will never be more than a mediocre city.

Other city comments:
- Bulawayo should work the grass farm to size 2, then work the 2 grass hills until a lighthouse and moai are built, then work coast to grow. It can become much more than what it is.
- I don't like building the palace in uMgungundlovu. It will be a waste of 1/2 of the bureaucracy bonus, since it has no . IMO Uruk is the obvious choice for the palace, especially since it is by far our best production city and yet still has decent from the gold mine + a cottage or 2. In addition, it's close to the area of our future expansion (KK and BK). If we're going down the warpath, I'd build the HE here as well. As the capital with bureau + HE it would be an awesome unit pump that's close to the action.
- It's too bad you didn't grab the fish site SE of Uruk that Kublai took. It's a key choke point into his lands, and is the only place that you can chain irrigate from.

2. Pawelo:

Spoiler :

Building markets everywhere is a waste of time ATM. Building research everywhere pulls in 110bpt, CoL in 7 turns will fix the economy. Tech situation is competetive. BK settled the corn/pigs in the right spot, so we can take it from him. Need a blocking city NE of the gems to prevent Kublai from settling down that coast. Reasonable military - a good number of swords. 3 turns from construction at 110bpt, once CoL is done.

3. mjg5591:

Spoiler :

Reasonable tech, courthouse in Uruk. Good placement of kWadakuza. Very bad that KK has the ivory/copper. Weak military. Questionable decision to go for GLib, but at least we'll get some spoiler cash from it.

 

[WFU03]

Not sure this is even going to be close...

1. Kossin
Clearly the best save, and after fighting with the economy the whole last round, I'd prefer not to do it again.

2. mjg5591
See above on economy

3. Pawelo
Not a good economy, but nice other than that

 

[Gumbolt]

I suspect Kossin will win this round as she already has a big lead but we should wait for more votes to come in.


In defence of my save. The economy was in a position to recover as i had COL and could of whipped court houses. Yes I had whipped out a few units to attack KK but i thought this was needed to stop him expanding all over Gilga land. Its not as though he had a stack anyway. Currency long term would aid a higher science slider. I was actually the tech leader on our continent so this wasnt a issue. Grabbing philosophy showed I was in touch with the other continent too.

 

[huerfanista]

I suspect Kossin will win this round as she already has a big lead but we should wait for more votes to come in.


In defence of my save. The economy was in a position to recover as i had COL and could of whipped court houses. Yes I had whipped out a few units to attack KK but i thought this was needed to stop him expanding all over Gilga land. Its not as though he had a stack anyway. Currency long term would aid a higher science slider. I was actually the tech leader on our continent so this wasnt a issue. Grabbing philosophy showed I was in touch with the other continent too.

Actually, your save was pretty competitive EXCEPT for losing the copper/phant city, and thereby forcing war with KK. In fact, I'm amazed at how many people razed that city (Eridu) and kept Kish (pig/iron). Razing Eridu is sacrificing long-term gain (jumbos - a key strategic resource - and key territory) to sort-term benefit (lower maint). I'm also amazed at how many kept Kish, a truly mediocre spot, when razing and settling 2S of the pigs is a truly superior location (high food and prod).

 

[Gumbolt]

Actually, your save was pretty competitive EXCEPT for losing the copper/phant city, and thereby forcing war with KK. In fact, I'm amazed at how many people razed that city (Eridu) and kept Kish (pig/iron). Razing Eridu is sacrificing long-term gain (jumbos - a key strategic resource - and key territory) to sort-term benefit (lower maint). I'm also amazed at how many kept Kish, a truly mediocre spot, when razing and settling 2S of the pigs is a truly superior location (high food and prod).

I think needs must. My economy was on the brink to the point where I was using sea tiles to keep it in a positive cash flow. Theres only so much micro management you can do on a save. Even cottages take time to become useful.

The war with Gilga was painful for many as protective archers on hills are hard to take down even with axes. Minute your stack approaches next to city he whips another archer.

Calbert idea of leaving him alive had some benefits. but he may have got iron in the far south city. I think if my save had one less city at 1500bc it would of made for a better rush save.