Emperor Domination
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futurehermit
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I don't think internet is realistic at this point. What we need is units, not tech. Once we get panzers we should whip/draft like crazy people and slow-tech toward 1-2 more military techs (100% production). We have to cripple Nappy. The dudes overseas are no threat to win anytime soon.
My vote is still to try and raze his oil and coal cities and any others that fall in the line that they create. That strip would effectively cut his empire in 1/2 and severely cripple his production and military capabilities. No peace so he can't send out settlers. Then chip away at his other cities.
My vote is still to try and raze his oil and coal cities and any others that fall in the line that they create. That strip would effectively cut his empire in 1/2 and severely cripple his production and military capabilities. No peace so he can't send out settlers. Then chip away at his other cities.
lasombra
Warlord
I'm with you hermit. maybe make peace for a short period, til we have enough panzers to attack and raze and pillage. then just keep producing units and hard research a couple other military techs.
splitting his empire sounds reasonable, although to win we have to rebuild cities then...
splitting his empire sounds reasonable, although to win we have to rebuild cities then...
futurehermit
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Rebuilding cities will suck, but the thing is we have to cripple his production power and military capabilities and I don't think we can string out our forces to hold 4 cities. The alternative is to at least pillage his coal and oil and focus on holding one city at a time I s'pose, but that risks him getting a worker out to rebuild those resources.
Giaur
War Dancer
I was rather thinking of opportunity delaying launching starship by AI's. Sabotaging production. It's only possible when science slider is set to 0.
Giaur
War Dancer
At the moment we have Panzers, Nappy has Gunships. It's vicious circle. He will always have a superior unit. Marines and aboard from the sea is the way to go, but we need to rebuild first. The stack standing near Avignon is to perish in one turn when luck is bad. Tanks know blitz, so I guess 10 tanks would destroy this stack rapidly. So I repeat my question: Do we surrender?
edit: I am for 10 turn peace. Let Nappy have Carthage for these 10 turns. And I could swap with Johny Ricco or anyone, so I could help a little during wartime not peace.
btw. We need to also chose the economy. Universal Suffrage, State property or what? I favour workshops. At this stage of the game we need to speed up the production.
Giaur
War Dancer
I think 3-4 transports with 3 marines and 1 artillery in every transport would solve the problem. Navy would take the defense down. Marines would break the defenders, leaving only one unit in that city. Next turn some reinforcements would come, but from my experience most of them would be siege. Even wounded marines can deal with siege. In that way Nappy would lose his power rapidly. At the proper moment there would be a time to attack both from sea and land. Marines would take coastal cities. Tanks with Infantry would attack from land. We do not really need extreme power. But no more than 10 turns of peace. And we need level 3 units ...
I haven't looked at the save, but I'm not convinced peace/retreat is necessary. How many units are in his stack, and how badly injured are they? Because that's all he's got, and I'm sure he attacked with everything last turn. We've still got 17 infantry and 5 artillery. He killed 14 of our guys last turn, so that's the about what he's got (maybe less if some tanks killed two; maybe more (but very badly injured) if some artillery retreated), but most of those are probably badly wounded -- he might only attack with a handful of our guys next turn. We've got a Medic III and I'm guessing he doesn't, so we'll heal faster. In two turns we'll be almost full strength. I think we might still be able to take or raze Avignon -- which I think would let Washington declare independance (he was at 48% pop last I checked).
Anyway, can someone who has access to the save (I'm at work) post a description of remaining forces, and especially their state of injury?
peace,
lilnev
Anyway, can someone who has access to the save (I'm at work) post a description of remaining forces, and especially their state of injury?
peace,
lilnev
futurehermit
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Why are we attacking by sea? The cities I am thinking are the highest priority are all land-based except maybe the one that is furthest away?
Re: the vicious circle. All I am saying is we need to get as close to tech parity as we can, take out his production capabilities, and then try and outproduce him. If we can get more #s than him, it doesn't matter if he has better tech. We have the advantage of combined real intelligence vs. artificial intelligence as well.
I would say 100% production and then strike his coal and oil cities unless someone else has a better suggestion.
If we can prevent him from building oil-based units and deny him coal for his production cities while keeping our own coal and oil intact, that may give us the advantage we need in conjunction with whipping and drafting.
If we can get to a critical mass of taking a few of his key cities then eventually we will steamroll over him.
Re: the vicious circle. All I am saying is we need to get as close to tech parity as we can, take out his production capabilities, and then try and outproduce him. If we can get more #s than him, it doesn't matter if he has better tech. We have the advantage of combined real intelligence vs. artificial intelligence as well.
I would say 100% production and then strike his coal and oil cities unless someone else has a better suggestion.
If we can prevent him from building oil-based units and deny him coal for his production cities while keeping our own coal and oil intact, that may give us the advantage we need in conjunction with whipping and drafting.
If we can get to a critical mass of taking a few of his key cities then eventually we will steamroll over him.
futurehermit
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Exactly. Take out his oil, crank Panzers and hope we can eventually hit that critical mass point where our production > his and we can steamroll him.
The fact that the other continent hasn't out-teched us yet gives me hope that we can win domination before either of them become a spacerace threat...
I would say build the largest stack of death we can and raze his oil and coal cities (When I played my turn I saw a straight line of 4 cities that would do it). Once we do that, he should be crippled militarily and production-wise. There will come a point where we can start keeping cities after that.
Giaur
War Dancer
I screwed it up. Now Nappy won't take even 4 cities. Yes, we can defend, even very long 
.
First turn Nappy destroyed our 14-17 wounded units. Next turn 7 more. Next turns were matched. Finally collected some troops that were left and all stack was destroyed (dozen of units). I should sign peace treaty when I saw Mech infantry. If it was my game I could damage Nappy even now, but 2 more civs are waiting. Difficult chalenge I say.
Some screens ...
America captured our city (not for long) ...
First panzer
Deal with Mehmed
Nappy has mechs ...
Logs ...
.First turn Nappy destroyed our 14-17 wounded units. Next turn 7 more. Next turns were matched. Finally collected some troops that were left and all stack was destroyed (dozen of units). I should sign peace treaty when I saw Mech infantry. If it was my game I could damage Nappy even now, but 2 more civs are waiting. Difficult chalenge I say.
Some screens ...
America captured our city (not for long) ...
First panzer
Deal with Mehmed
Nappy has mechs ...
Logs ...
Spoiler :
Giaur
War Dancer
second part of logs ...
Spoiler :
futurehermit
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What are your thoughts Giaur after your turn. Do we have any shot?
Giaur
War Dancer
I have not followed the skills of other players, so it's difficult to answer this question. Nappy teches rapidly. I would wait for army rebuild (it's about 20 turns) and in the mean time I would try take Georgy down. I would switch to Emancipation, and try improve both army and infra. Flight is good way to go, I think. Fighters can soften enemy units in our teritory, especially Gunships. But when flight is in, Nappy could have Composites, never know. If we decided not to sign peace treaty, keep to that decision. Nappy will be busy building spaceship and aircraft soon. And only naval attack is the rescue. Transports filled with marines with only one purpose, razing coastal cities. When several cities are razed, we can attack from land. Defensive war for nearest 20 turns. And when flight is in trigger Golden age and spam aircraft. In these 20 turns those units must be built: 5 battleships, 5 transports, 1-2 carriers, 2 destroyers. Task is difficult and I am sorry I did not helped too much ... There is GG. Maybe collecting 10 3exp marines and making them 10 5exp marines is the way to go. More workers. Flight should be exchanged for both Fascism and Communism I think. Then change farms to workshops, farms are good for big cities, our cities size is limited by happiness resources. Next civic switch: State property, Police State and maybe Teocracy. In fact the last tech we need to know is Rocetry (I hope so).
btw. The reason of razing cities is not Nappy's power but his tech superiority.
btw. The reason of razing cities is not Nappy's power but his tech superiority.
futurehermit
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My sense is that if we attack coastal cities, we aren't denying him oil and coal and thus he can still produce masses of units. We have to curtail his power graph or we won't be able to do any damage to him. What do you think?
lasombra
Warlord
I think Giaur has a point. I t might be easier to take out those coastal cities. Our attack force might actually get there to do some damage...
pigswill
fly (one day)
Lurking
Its worth remembering that mech inf don't need resources; modern armour and air units need oil, naval units can get by with uranium so taking out oil would still leave MI which will give panzers a run for their money.
Its worth remembering that mech inf don't need resources; modern armour and air units need oil, naval units can get by with uranium so taking out oil would still leave MI which will give panzers a run for their money.
Giaur
War Dancer
@futurehermit:
From my experience there are 3 ways to make damage to enemy's units (force AI's to lose power rapidly):
1) lilnev did that, allowing AI's to send large stack into our territory, softened this stack by Artillery and anihilated this stack. There is also defensive version. Only softening the defenders with Artillery and waiting for AI's attack on our city.
2) allowing AI's to capture one of our cities for one-several turns. Sending Tanks, Artilleries with CR and the same. Additional option is to never recapture that city (unless civil disorder soon ends). AI will be sending new units to strenghten the garrison
3) coastal siege. Leaving that city with only one unit. Next turn AI will send few-several Artillery to strenghten the garrison. Marines eat artillery for breakfest. Also initially the coastal garrison counts 15 siege weapons. There is always one city that is destined to load units into transports.
Only combining these 3 strats will efectively damage Nappy.
Also consider having some flanking2 gunships. When battle goes wrong, these units can destroy the whole garrison (with few loses), while Commando tank would capture that city (so maybe GG assigned to Tank). Of course it demands much more troops. However aircraft (cheap) can help achieving this goal.
From my experience there are 3 ways to make damage to enemy's units (force AI's to lose power rapidly):
1) lilnev did that, allowing AI's to send large stack into our territory, softened this stack by Artillery and anihilated this stack. There is also defensive version. Only softening the defenders with Artillery and waiting for AI's attack on our city.
2) allowing AI's to capture one of our cities for one-several turns. Sending Tanks, Artilleries with CR and the same. Additional option is to never recapture that city (unless civil disorder soon ends). AI will be sending new units to strenghten the garrison
3) coastal siege. Leaving that city with only one unit. Next turn AI will send few-several Artillery to strenghten the garrison. Marines eat artillery for breakfest. Also initially the coastal garrison counts 15 siege weapons. There is always one city that is destined to load units into transports.
Only combining these 3 strats will efectively damage Nappy.
Also consider having some flanking2 gunships. When battle goes wrong, these units can destroy the whole garrison (with few loses), while Commando tank would capture that city (so maybe GG assigned to Tank). Of course it demands much more troops. However aircraft (cheap) can help achieving this goal.
futurehermit
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Makes sense to me. What about starting with his coastal oil city and trying to push inwards from there?
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