Empire of Liberty

[dacubz145]

TTT: Empire of Liberty is an up and coming TTT mod focussing on the history of America

Keldath is leading this project, the first TTT mod to not be lead by myself, and is currently being helped by myself (for art and other instances) and Drak (for a historical side)

Keldath has made amazing progress, and if you are interested in helping in any way (even historical), or looking to see our progress so far, or anything else please feel free to comment

 

[keldath]

sweet.

maybe TTT: America History ?

ive just finished adding some civs.

the tech tree is done for now.

im going to continue work tomorrow.


***
so who wants to help?
dacubz ? you got time for it?

anyway -
according to the tech tree oi posted on the other thread,
i need a layout of unit classes and to properly position them in the tech tree,
any thoughts?

 

[dacubz145]

Ok well before the exact details we need a couple outlines first

1st we need to pick an exact era of time. To me 1770 - modern day would make the most sense to me if we are doing all of American history, unless you guys want to focus on a certain era, and based on your tech tree it is more specific. What time period were you guys thinking

From there we need to decide if this game will be compatibale with custom games, or is it just scenarios? I personally prefer custom games being able to be playable, but that does mean some extra modding

After we decide if there will be custom games or just scenarios, we need civilizations and tech trees. If we want a 1770 - 2013 era, without custom games, we can do specific tech trees for eras (one tech tree starts at civil war, one at revolutionary war) or one tech tree that covers everything.
If we don't want custom games, then we only include scenario civs (America, England, Spain, France for revolutionary war scenarios etc.) but if we want custom games as well we need two sets of civilizations. One set will be unplayable in custom games (England, Spain etc. only for scenarios) and one set will be for custom games (so we split America up, so either states or parts of the country. Because in custom game we don't want to play as Europeans or native americans, we want American civs. But these civs will be for custom games only, and not for scenarios).

I have time to mod for sure, but my first priority right now if finishing my Modern Alliances mod. We need to map out the mod before we start modding it, once we start modding we will figure out as we go who does what. Drak said he is interested in learning how to do xml so he can help probably a little as well

 

[Drakarska]

If memory serves, The Norse had settlements in Greenland and Canada as early as the 10th century. Let's see, Columbus found the Bahamas and other Caribbean ( including PR and Cuba I think) around 1492-3ish) on his 1st and 2nd voyages.. I'm a little rusty, I'll grab one of my research papers (ya gotta love a woman who saves every flippin' scrap of paper, no matter how old it is) from college, as it's definitely more detailed than Wiki.

Umnn, lol, off the top of my head- 1497-8ish, John Cabot landed in NA, with Columbus's 3rd voyage not too far behind it. France did similar with the upper NW and parts of Canada on the eastern seaboard, and a colony in the Great Lakes region. I think Portugal did the same in the Brazil region.

How about a start of 1500AD, with colonies appropriate to the civs in question. Additionally, the Natives played key roles in this time frame (friendlies and enemies), but I'll have to find some of my research (current Wiki info has some historical errors as to the Tribes placement) info in order to give an accurate map placement, as well as demographics/info for the civs in question.

Please keep in mind that while the colonization phase was going on of the America's, there were some Euro wars during this time frame, not to mention Piracy was on the upswing. You kind Gents toss some more ideas out there, and we'll see if we can't solidify a baseline custom scenario. Hope my input helps, and I'm really looking forward to our collaboration.

 

[keldath]

humm you ask hard questions...

well the ultra goal is to have a mod basis - that will alllow you to play fro, 1770 to 2050

but - i think custom game will be a tough one here? how can we make in the same mod civs for custom and not for custom in the files?

i like for custom game also, but i think you can eat the whole cake whole.

must focus i guess.


in my opinion, and vision is to start with the civil war era - build the tech tree for it,
when we finish add in a whole new "eras" that will complete the colonial time from 1770 .


i think that for now we should focus on doing the 1859-1865 scenario, after go back to 1770.

if some1 wanna custom, its possible - with the civs we did.

what do you think?
do you like the tech tree i built so far?

as i said, im flexible, if you prefer to do it another way, no problem.



****
mm drak want to start off in 1500, ok , what do you think?

 

[dacubz145]

If memory serves, The Norse had settlements in Greenland and Canada as early as the 10th century. Let's see, Columbus found the Bahamas and other Caribbean ( including PR and Cuba I think) around 1492-3ish) on his 1st and 2nd voyages.. I'm a little rusty, I'll grab one of my research papers (ya gotta love a woman who saves every flippin' scrap of paper, no matter how old it is) from college, as it's definitely more detailed than Wiki.

Umnn, lol, off the top of my head- 1497-8ish, John Cabot landed in NA, with Columbus's 3rd voyage not too far behind it. France did similar with the upper NW and parts of Canada on the eastern seaboard, and a colony in the Great Lakes region. I think Portugal did the same in the Brazil region.

How about a start of 1500AD, with colonies appropriate to the civs in question. Additionally, the Natives played key roles in this time frame (friendlies and enemies), but I'll have to find some of my research (current Wiki info has some historical errors as to the Tribes placement) info in order to give an accurate map placement, as well as demographics/info for the civs in question.

Please keep in mind that while the colonization phase was going on of the America's, there were some Euro wars during this time frame, not to mention Piracy was on the upswing. You kind Gents toss some more ideas out there, and we'll see if we can't solidify a baseline custom scenario. Hope my input helps, and I'm really looking forward to our collaboration.

The thing is though that this is an American mod, which, atleast my take, is that it included the history of the United States, which in my opinion starts in the 1770's. Everything between 1492-1770 IMO is a combination of European and the New World history, but not US history. I could see if you guys want to start at 1607 (Jamestown) as you could argue that that is the start of US history. But the colonization period of the 15th, 16th and 17th century really is a complete different topic compared to U.S. history. But if we were to include it, it would create some modding problems. It is very difficult to, in the beginning of the game, have a colonization type game where Europe is a huge part of it, to Europe then having next to no effect in the later game. Rev War is different because it was America vs. England so a war against Europe is much easier then being a vassal of Europe.

Personally I feel 1770-2013 is best. unless you want to end it earlier. Other possible end times: 1865 (end of civil war) 1898 (Spanish-American war) or any Vietnam war year. Because if you are doing a mod about the history of USA, the only post-civil war, wars I can think of which focused on America (as apposed to WW1/2 which was Europe) are the Spanish American, Vietnam, (as well as other cold war wars) and I don't think we want to get into any modern wars (Iraq or Afghanistan). So I think maybe 1900 might be a good ending point

Now thinking about it though, you could do Guantanamo bay, or the Banana wars to for some modern scenarios that include only NA.

Personally though I believe colonization should be left out as it is a different era. I do want to do a colonization mod though, so I feel if we split those two into two different mods it will allow both of them to be more accurate and flexible from a modding standpoint (same reason I don't just combine all of my mod together. It would be nice if you can play Native American history of a perfect WW2 scenario in the same mod but it isn't really plausible)

 

[dacubz145]

humm you ask hard questions...

well the ultra goal is to have a mod basis - that will alllow you to play fro, 1770 to 2050

but - i think custom game will be a tough one here? how can we make in the same mod civs for custom and not for custom in the files?

i like for custom game also, but i think you can eat the whole cake whole.

must focus i guess.


in my opinion, and vision is to start with the civil war era - build the tech tree for it,
when we finish add in a whole new "eras" that will complete the colonial time from 1770 .


i think that for now we should focus on doing the 1859-1865 scenario, after go back to 1770.

if some1 wanna custom, its possible - with the civs we did.

what do you think?
do you like the tech tree i built so far?

as i said, im flexible, if you prefer to do it another way, no problem.



****
mm drak want to start off in 1500, ok , what do you think?

From experience it is easier to include everything first. I really do like the tech tree you have built so far, but to create a tech tree for a specific era, then try to expand it another century back will be beyond difficult. I think we should come up with a tech tree that starts in 1770 and goes to whichever year you think (I think 1900 but really doesn't matter to me). After we do tech tree, after that we finish all the other modding (civs units etc) we can then focus on the civil war scenario. As long as we create the tech tree correctly we can still have a great civil war scenario.

When I create a tech tree I base it on the BTS tech tree, to create much better balance. We could expand the necessary eras to create better scenarios. So you will have your six eras replaced. Say your ancient is replaced with revolutionary war Techs and so on. So it could look like this

Ancient:1760 - 1780
Classical: 1780-1840
Medieval: 1840 - 1865
Renaissance: 1865 - 1910
Industrial: 1910-60
Modern: 1960 - 2013
Future: 2013 -
So you see how that for the revolutionary war (ancient era) is stretched out as there are many technologies for just that era, while in the classical it stretches a long amount of time, and again squished in the medieval (Mexican American war - Civil war) for better longer scenairos, and then like 50ish years for each era afterwards

As for custom game it would be hard. Say we added the 50 states (probably wouldn't and would do zones but same concept). We add the 50 states, say 15 native American tribes, 5 European civs, Mexico, Canada, and the Carribean. We only want the 50 states for custom games, and the rest only for scenarios. In the xml we say the 50 states are all playable, and the other ones are not. Then in the scenario we just place in the scenario civs and ignore the stats. That way you have the correct civs for scenarios, but when you play a custom games, it will ignore the other civs, and only choose the 50 states.

 

[Drakarska]

Ok, works for me. so 1770 it is, I'm guessing you want a baseline to establish the colonies just before the start of the American Revolution? Hmnn, maybe call it Birth of a Nation?

What kind of parameters are you looking for? Additionally, did you want to any stuff from France, Spain, and the Dutch, as they had historical impact (most notably the French) during that time frame.

Lol, just some thoughts.

 

[Drakarska]

From experience it is easier to include everything first. I really do like the tech tree you have built so far, but to create a tech tree for a specific era, then try to expand it another century back will be beyond difficult. I think we should come up with a tech tree that starts in 1770 and goes to whichever year you think (I think 1900 but really doesn't matter to me). After we do tech tree, after that we finish all the other modding (civs units etc) we can then focus on the civil war scenario. As long as we create the tech tree correctly we can still have a great civil war scenario.

When I create a tech tree I base it on the BTS tech tree, to create much better balance. We could expand the necessary eras to create better scenarios. So you will have your six eras replaced. Say your ancient is replaced with revolutionary war Techs and so on. So it could look like this

Ancient:1760 - 1780
Classical: 1780-1840
Medieval: 1840 - 1865
Renaissance: 1865 - 1910
Industrial: 1910-60
Modern: 1960 - 2013
Future: 2013 -
So you see how that for the revolutionary war (ancient era) is stretched out as there are many technologies for just that era, while in the classical it stretches a long amount of time, and again squished in the medieval (Mexican American war - Civil war) for better longer scenairos, and then like 50ish years for each era afterwards

As for custom game it would be hard. Say we added the 50 states (probably wouldn't and would do zones but same concept). We add the 50 states, say 15 native American tribes, 5 European civs, Mexico, Canada, and the Carribean. We only want the 50 states for custom games, and the rest only for scenarios. In the xml we say the 50 states are all playable, and the other ones are not. Then in the scenario we just place in the scenario civs and ignore the stats. That way you have the correct civs for scenarios, but when you play a custom games, it will ignore the other civs, and only choose the 50 states.

Lol, I really need to type faster.so 1760-1780, what's your thoughts on game speed, map size, and VC's? I figure that will give us a baseline, and then we can adjust the tech's, units, resources, etc from there.

 

[Drakarska]

Meant to ask, it appears you want a linear progression for the custom scenarios, is that correct? (and if so, great )

 

[dacubz145]

Ok, works for me. so 1770 it is, I'm guessing you want a baseline to establish the colonies just before the start of the American Revolution? Hmnn, maybe call it Birth of a Nation?

What kind of parameters are you looking for? Additionally, did you want to any stuff from France, Spain, and the Dutch, as they had historical impact (most notably the French) during that time frame.

Lol, just some thoughts.

Once this mod is over I want to combine my Native American mod with my Eurocentrism mod to create a colonization one. Same with my Africa and Eurocentrism for an imperialism one, and finally combine the two combinations for a mod that focusses on Europe and the new world and Africa from 1500-1900.

Well I thought 1770 or 1760 or whatever for the tech tree, that way have some flexibility with technologies in a revolutionary scenario.

Yes as I said the Europeans will be in. For all scenarios I believe it is best that there are no European cities (in actual Europe) and only the ones in NA be there (except for a Rev War scenario England should have European cities). I can code events in for other items, so if something has to come from Europe (a unit or something like that) I can place via python.

What year would you guys like to end at? Once we get that year I believe we should start with a list of buildings, wonders, and bonuses, and then unitclasses.

Keldath can you create a tech tree? I can help you with it but will you handle starting it?

Speed mapsize etc. aren't really important and we can adjust those based on everything else, instead of visa versa. It is much harder to create a mod based on a scenario, then a scenario based on a mod.

By linear progressive scenario you mean like you play Rev War scenario, and then once you get to 1861 civil war starts?

We can do that. This is what I think is the best option - you create separate scenarios first. We first create a civil war scenario, then a revolutionary war scenario, then maybe Mexican American War scenario? Whichever ones we want, and order is unimportant, but then once we have accurate starting scenarios so the player can choose which one to play, we can code in other wars. So you can play starting at the revolutionary war and play till whichever end year we want.

I would prefer this bc if we create a Rev War scenario first, I would want to create a civil war scenario, before I worry about expanding the Rev War to include the civil war scenario, as that makes sense to me. If a player wants a civil war scenario, why make them play 100 years before hand to wait, create a more accurate starting civil war scenario first.

 

[keldath]

hey guys,

ok , so were starting of 1770, ok.

you guys know this gonna take quiet a while to bring it to life ?


i can create the tree, i prefer to use the one i already made, and add to it earlier techs, its not a problem for me , i work very fast.

ll i ask from you guys - give me the names for the starting 1770 techs so ill add them to the current tree ive made from its beginning .

my tree starts with urbanization and harvesting -i can move around the techs i already created. (p.s i rather not work on the vanila bts tech tree since its more general and i think isnt appropriate) after you guys give me the early techs, ill do the past civil war - 1800-2000.
ill also cut some of the techs i done so far, we dont want a over populated tree

ok then ready for orders !

 

[dacubz145]

Well you also need technologies to bridge the gap between 1770 and 1865
Pre 1770: Lightning Rod, Sextant, Spinning jenny

1770-1780: Steam Engine

1780-1790: Bifocul, Patent, Steamboat, Oil lamp, Power loom

1790-1800: Cement, Vaccination, Interchangeable parts, Cotton Gin

1800-1810: Arc lamp

1810-1820: Food Canning

1820-1830: Typewriter, Electromagnet, Internal combustion engine

1830-1840: Telegraph, Bicycle, Photography, Revolver

1840-1850: Antiseptic, Sewing Machine, Rubber Vulcanization

1850-1860: Anesthesia

Those are just off the top of my head so the dates may be off a bit. I can create a better list later, especially for 1770ish when I have time to do some internet research

Constitution and Independence are a must obviously. If we start the scenario earlier then 1776 we can have the war start once America discovers the independence technology

 

[keldath]

hey man,

ok nice ideas,

i must say im delaying my work on america, since im now updaeting two of my other mods, when ill finish ill go back to america.

 

[dacubz145]

no worries, never in a rush

Just update me when you make progress

 

[keldath]

ok,

ive done what i wanted in my mods for now, im eager to work on the american mod.

but,

for now, my mod will be named america history, i have no problem to sign it under ttt: american history, and share my work.

but ive decided to lead the mods beginning.
id be happy for you to join me of course,
im going for the civil war era for starter, on the current tech tree , with your suggested changes (without the tech of 1830-40 and lower)
after we/i finish with the civil war first scenario, i will go for the prequel , going for the revolution times, and i will add the early tech tree then , like building a second part to the mod).
the mod wont be recommended for custom game, there wont be a point...

im going for a north america with some room for mexico and the canada area.
the map will be splitted to a 4 on 4 with 2 teams representing the south and north sides,
along with other civs - some Indian civs (im going to spread those in the territory of the map as scattered cities.
the playable will be only south or north.

so for now i added in the civs:
california bear flag
cascadia
confaderates
great plains
midwestern
republic of texas
the union.

although - i might change those to be more appropriate with the fighting sides - advice would be welcomed.

these are the unit types ive come up wit:
6 unit classes:
millitia - defnssive units
infantry - attack rifle units
mountained - cavalry types and mountaineers
artillery - siege
federal units - something like hero special units with some over powered uses.

the infantry attacking units, will be divided to 2 sections of units, each unit will have their advantages in city attack. (i might split the unit class into 2 infantries).

i already got the names for each unit type, went through Wikipedia, got good historical names.

there will be 4 tiers of units - i like my mods where there is some "quiet" tech time with no new units, so you can enjoy each unit tier for a while, till you get the next tier, not just random placement on the tech tree. i might put a limit on some units on the game so there wont be an over spam of units - this might get me to do even 3 types of attacking infantries later on -for a more varied army.

i am building the mod with kmods and platypings core mods, with the additions of some more.

i will be happy to get help from you, if you share my goals

if we get to the time of this mod to have a tech tree from american revolution to civil war, i will gladly continue it to a ww and modern times. this can be a huge mod platform for america scenarios.

***
oh and ofc ship classes and early ait unit class (ballon types)
and to prepare ground for future extensions, the unit power will begin at 30 combat.
unit costs, building costs, upkeep, tech studies, will be edited at a later time to continue the revolutions times scenario.

 

[dacubz145]

ok , so were starting of 1770, ok.

but ive decided to lead the mods beginning.
id be happy for you to join me of course,
im going for the civil war era for starter, on the current tech tree , with your suggested changes (without the tech of 1830-40 and lower)
after we/i finish with the civil war first scenario, i will go for the prequel , going for the revolution times, and i will add the early tech tree then , like building a second part to the mod).
the mod wont be recommended for custom game, there wont be a point...

Nope we start at 1770. It's what we agreed on. Its a mod about American History as you said, not just the civil war.
This is a team mod as we discussed, and we have already made decisions in which you agreed
If you don't want to start at 1770 bc you dont want to do the tech tree, then I can do it, otherwise i wouldn't see any reason you wouldn't. Creating one tech tree and then adding things before it is way to difficult and will lead to a messy Revolution scenario that will take way to many hours to fix, instead of just starting with it now.
After creating an abundance of mods and wasting so much time on things like this bc I didnt know better at the time, I dont want to do it again.

im going for a north america with some room for mexico and the canada area.
the map will be splitted to a 4 on 4 with 2 teams representing the south and north sides,
along with other civs - some Indian civs (im going to spread those in the territory of the map as scattered cities.
the playable will be only south or north.

Agree with the map
What two teams are representing the south and north? I don't get it?

so for now i added in the civs:
california bear flag
cascadia
confaderates
great plains
midwestern
republic of texas
the union.

California was a state with the Union. Texas with the confederates.
Civs should be based on this map for accuracy
http://www.google.com/search?q=civi...y_recs%2Fcvlwar%2Fmil_cvlwar_map.html;787;483

North vs. South plus the Indians, plus canada/mexico, plus the 8 other territories

Texas as a teamate with the South won't work well. Two civs as a team won't work together nearly as well as simply one civ.

these are the unit types ive come up wit:
6 unit classes:
millitia - defnssive units
infantry - attack rifle units
mountained - cavalry types and mountaineers
artillery - siege
federal units - something like hero special units with some over powered uses.

I would go for slightly more accurate units. Artillery is to specific IMO, I can handle that though, I can ensure that there is a wide variety of quality units

 

[keldath]

mmm.... this puts me in a tough position.

well, its not a problem for me to do the tech tree, i can work it tomorrow, with the techs you suggested.
ok, ill follow the plan then just got excited a bit


but how do you wanna do it ? we have a long tech tree , then what ? we start put units and buildings on it?


as for teams - well i thought about breaking the sount and north to different civs - lets say this:
team 1 the north:
new york region
ohio region
iowa region
ill region
vs
team 2 confederates:
texas region
...
...
..so on

+
border states
new mexico terr
dakota terr
uta terr
nevada terr
british
mexico
european civs for 1770 scenario

each will be a civ - a player will choose either team1 or 2 or the others.
(i have a mod that can control "relations between civs - this will help wars between the civs we want to be at war. also a mod comp by the j that declares war at a certain turn.

units combats:
reacon
miliitia
infantry
conscripts
grenadiers
cavalry
dragoons
cuirassiers
artillery
ships
air
(before imeant unit combats)

the units will be like:
under infantry and conscripts:
en-field troops
carbine rifleman
colt,,,
Spencer rifleman...

under artillery:
parot cannos, napoleaon smothbores howitzers.

millitia:
locals
reserves
volunteers
..

and more (i got it all written down.

ok?

tell me more of you ideas,
i work fast

 

[dacubz145]

Ok i misunderstood you about the units, yes i completely agree, i must of misread, i thought your unitcombats were your units so you were going just with the 6 or 7 units

Still doesnt make sence to split up civs that way. Unless i am missiing something and you can pick either north or south and have all the civs under one team and u play all of them. Even so it wont work. Illinois will focus on protecting illinois. Although they are a team they dont play like it. The scenario will cease to work that way. Each state will work for its own not the side. It wont be fun when illinois is stockpiling useless units on chicago when in real life theyd be going to fight the south

 

[keldath]

well,

what i want to achieve by spliting the south and north, is a more varied game play:
1. you can play different states under the south and north.
2. unlike every scenario, you will be focused on a small civ with less cities then other america scenario - instead of starting out with an array of cities of the entire south or east, you will be able to manage a smaller part, not a huge empire on start.
3, teams - well setting teams will ensure a war with one is a war with all, as well as that youll have 3 more allies you play with.
4, setting out the conflicts - easy , as i said theres a mod that allowes to define a certain trun that it will cause deceleration of war for a civ, as well as a mod that controls the likelyhood of a civ to hate another civ and declare war on it often.

i just think this will provide a nice uniuqe game play for the mod.

further more - if we have a civ called union and confedercy, we will need another american civ called the 13 colonies for the revolution mod, this meta game that ill describe will alllow the revolution mod to work the same way - you can play as a part of the 13 colonies - again - different game play for the same side of the story.

but,
if you think im wrong, and prefer the regular style, ill agree and follow your plan on this.
the worst case in a later point ill make a modmod for my own

the units - yes i didnt explain right, sry.
anyway i hope you like all the classes, again, i think to give a parallel unit types for a vareied army - for instance - when you get to the cavalry you can build both light cavalry or/and light dragoon, one is better vs rifleman one is better vs grenadier, both have same power basis. but you can only build 15 of each at any point, so this will make you buy both types of units at the same time - a varied army


*****
today when ill get back from work, ill finish the tech tree - starting with steam engine and the rest of the techs you suggested, ill try to find more on wiki.
and il connect it to the tech tree ive done so far like in the picture i uploaded , we will have quiet a long tech tree i guess, ill try to cut undeeded tech.
*****
once i will finnish off the tree, ill start position units along the tiers, since we get from 1770 to 1865 for now, i guess we need like 6 tiers of units that will be spreaded across in a logical order. the unit part is the longest part along with buildings.
afeter that we will decide exactly on the civs we want, uus for each, and then we will have to decide on our resources meta, what unit needs what and so on.

this is gonna be awesome.