Enemy + ally AI sitting on 20000g and...

[Soronery]

they still refuse to ally a single city state ( I am allied with everyone) and I am about to become world leader. This is broken. They AI needs to compete for City states more vigorously considering how much more important they have become.

 

[Vohbo]

The problem is obviously that if they would use their immense gold stacks to do that, you would never again be able to win diplomacy ever through peaceful means.

 

[Morthis]

The problem is obviously that if they would use their immense gold stacks to do that, you would never again be able to win diplomacy ever through peaceful means.

The AI doesn't seem to have absurd levels of GPT from before anymore, and the player can reach pretty absurd levels of GPT as well now. I think any AI pursuing a diplo victory itself should heavily contest the player on city states (as in, use all it's gold to do so if needed). You're not supposed to be able to get away with being ally with every CS there is, yet even on deity it's not that hard to do so.

 

[feralminded]

I have noticed this too, just won a diplo game on emperor with every CS allied and a Venice who has 25,000g in his bank. He's friends with me and all but that shouldn't stop him from trying to win, or at least not lose so bad.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I have noticed this too, just won a diplo game on emperor with every CS allied and a Venice who has 25,000g in his bank. He's friends with me and all but that shouldn't stop him from trying to win, or at least not lose so bad.

Even if the AI is not trying a diplo win, every AI with a lot of gold in the bank should try and pull a few allies from a diplo leader of the UN (to make sure that AI can get to their own win first)

note: if every AI did that then it would become truly difficult to get the gold for a diplo victory, and you would have to rely on things like treaty organization/gunboat diplomacy more (and coming in 1st on repeated rounds)

 

[feralminded]

note: if every AI did that then it would become truly difficult to get the gold for a diplo victory, and you would have to rely on things like treaty organization/gunboat diplomacy more (and coming in 1st on repeated rounds)

If there is any VC that NEEDS to be harder it's Diplo. The truth is that 25,000g might buy Venice at lot friends but honestly I don't think it would be able to buy him all of them (or not for long). By the end I was in the 200s with most of them having poured plenty of my own gold into those civs as well as actively competing to win their challenges and using spare spies to flip CSes that were too expensive. In terms of absolute CS influence these massive stacks of gold are not quite as much as they seem to be (85 influence for 1000g with Patronage) but at any rate theres really no point NOT to dump them into the CS's and to play for their own Diplo win.

 

[Poekel]

they still refuse to ally a single city state ( I am allied with everyone) and I am about to become world leader. This is broken. They AI needs to compete for City states more vigorously considering how much more important they have become.

What is your military rating? In my games the AI keeps on buying city states over and over (especially the usual suspects like Alexander and Elizabeth). In one game though where I was pretty high on military and almost every nation got afraid after I built a nuclear missile and they suddenly stopped bullying or buying all those city states.

€: They basically just might consder your military might and eventually your standing to other civs on how to react to city states you (or other AIs) are allied to. If you were able to just wipe them out by just looking at them, they would not try to anger you by competing over city states with you.

 

[IBYCFOTA]

The problem is obviously that if they would use their immense gold stacks to do that, you would never again be able to win diplomacy ever through peaceful means.

I don't think anybody wants Civs to use their entire treasury reserve to win over a City State just to prevent the player from winning, but they should at least put up a reasonable fight for them, especially City States which actually have value to them as allies due to their bonuses or close proximity.

 

[Jarru]

First time as Venice. Immortal, random map. Pretty much won when I allied last city state which was pretty early, then half of the game was "next turn" waiting for the diplo.
Through entire game I producd 1 or 2 archers and 1 warrior, which you can see on the screen. Was friendly, never experienced any aggression from the AI. Rest military I received from CSs. AI handed me a win on a silver plate.
Love the game and I like when I win, but AI needs serious rework. I think smart AI wont need bonusses it receives now on higher difficulties to be able to competite with human player.
EDIT: Austria had like 30k gold and not even trying to buy some CSs from me.

Spoiler :

 

[Cymsdale]

I don't think anybody wants Civs to use their entire treasury reserve to win over a City State just to prevent the player from winning

I want that! I want that!

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I don't think anybody wants Civs to use their entire treasury reserve to win over a City State just to prevent the player from winning, but they should at least put up a reasonable fight for them, especially City States which actually have value to them as allies due to their bonuses or close proximity.

No.. they should put up a fight for city states SIMPLY to stop/delay another player from winning. (while they continue to work on their own win... ie a Frreedom/Science civ should buy spaceship parts first if it can)

Basically
-whenever a civ has an amount of delegates nearing World Leader level, they should tend to try for taking that civs allies

-whenever a civ is influential over a number of other players they should try to get more culture

-whenever a civ has a number of capital cities OR a large number of delegates OR ais influential over a number of other civs OR has the Apollo Program and a large number of techs, then they should recognize that other civ as a "hegemonic power" and relations should start to degrade (ie they are less willing to trade, and more willing to vote against you, and more willing to declare war if they have the tech)

 

[Buccaneer]

It should be scaled based on difficulty levels. The higher you play, the more willing they are to use their gold. The fact that right now they barely use much of it is stupid.

 

[adwcta]

The AI is not aware of any impending victory. The closest it comes to that is Diplo Balance, but that's runaway hate, and you don't have to runaway in score to win any of the victory conditions besides conquest. And, that only affects diplomacy, not AI's use of gold.

This was originally scripted to prevent all AIs from auto-DoW-ing you when you are nearing any VC, as a competitor aware that you are about to win the game would do. It does make the game less stupid in the end from a flavor perspective (especially from a science/culture perspective). I think they should take a middle position, so that if you have good diplo, the AI would not be mad at you for nearing a victory condition, but if you have medium/bad diplo, that AI should actively prevent you from winning when you start getting very close (e.g. 2 spaceship parts or 2 influencials away or 2 capitals away, or 10 turns before UN vote and you have enough or nearly enough delegates).

 

[Gucumatz]

Diplomatic Victory was fixed in GK and rebroken in BNW. Needs to be fixed - in my games now I turn it off as its waaay too broken at the moment

 

[KrikkitTwo]

The AI is not aware of any impending victory. The closest it comes to that is Diplo Balance, but that's runaway hate, and you don't have to runaway in score to win any of the victory conditions besides conquest. And, that only affects diplomacy, not AI's use of gold.

This was originally scripted to prevent all AIs from auto-DoW-ing you when you are nearing any VC, as a competitor aware that you are about to win the game would do. It does make the game less stupid in the end from a flavor perspective (especially from a science/culture perspective). I think they should take a middle position, so that if you have good diplo, the AI would not be mad at you for nearing a victory condition, but if you have medium/bad diplo, that AI should actively prevent you from winning when you start getting very close (e.g. 2 spaceship parts or 2 influencials away or 2 capitals away, or 10 turns before UN vote and you have enough or nearly enough delegates).

They shouldn't auto-DOW you... especially because they have better options
1. steal your delegates (stop Diplo)
2. build up culture (stop Tourism)
3. generally vote against your interests in the UN (ban luxuries only you have, embargo you, switch from science<->art funding, etc.)

As for domination, they Should almost auto-DOW you since that is how you are going to win.

Science is the only one that it is hard for them to fight (some stuff from the UN)

However as Any civ gets closer to victory.. the AIs should begin taking steps to make sure that they have time to reach their own victory first.

 

[joncnunn]

This is because the aspect of the Fall G&K patch that taught the AI how to cash rush units properly also broke the ability of Austria to use its UA and had the effect of increasing agressiveness (due to AI having more units) was reverted.

So, yup, massive gold piles seen again but AI Austria marries city states again and the AI behavior on wars is like G&K before that patch.

For the coming BNW fall patch, what I'm hoping is they strike some sort of balance.
(Less than X gold; current behavior; Above that gold, turn on more aggressive cash buying.)

 

[Dai]

If the AI left its entire military embarked near the north pole instead of using it to defend its cities with the exception of a handful of very military-oriented civs, which would occasionally noodle around with actually defending themselves or using their armies for conquest before basically giving up on the idea late in the game, we'd almost certainly consider domination a pretty broken victory condition, and even that would still require slogging your armies around the world to take everyone's capital. The diplomatic/economic equivalent of that isn't dramatically more acceptable. I really like that BNW is more agile with victory conditions, but there shouldn't be one that you have to try to actively avoid picking up on the path to the victory condition you've spent the whole game planning towards.

 

[Balerune]

they still refuse to ally a single city state ( I am allied with everyone) and I am about to become world leader. This is broken. They AI needs to compete for City states more vigorously considering how much more important they have become.

I don't know how they coded it but I'd try a higher difficulty level. At higher levels gold is dearer for everyone. I've been playing emperor and there was one game with an AI with 10k gold but out of @12 games that was unusual.

How they compete with CS (on all levels) I'm not sure. I used to play a mod where the AI was vicious in competing with CS so compared to BNW they are tamer but I haven't played vanilla since launch so I don't know how that compares.

That said there are a lot of variables such as map and lie among others that affect AI behavior.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I don't know how they coded it but I'd try a higher difficulty level. At higher levels gold is dearer for everyone. I've been playing emperor and there was one game with an AI with 10k gold but out of @12 games that was unusual.

How they compete with CS (on all levels) I'm not sure. I used to play a mod where the AI was vicious in competing with CS so compared to BNW they are tamer but I haven't played vanilla since launch so I don't know how that compares.

That said there are a lot of variables such as map and lie among others that affect AI behavior.

The big issue is they should compete if you are about to win.

As a human player, if you saw an AI about to win a diplovictory, you would try to steal one or more of their city states (or you would declare war and conqher one of their city states)

If an AI has the gold, it should use it to stop you from winning.

(however there should be a level of Gold that the AI keeps in reserve.. so that when gold >X it can spend .. on buildings/units/CS, etc. but not before)

 

[Dux1]

I just finished my first diplomatic victory game in BNW. Man, talk about mind-numbingly easy (was playing on Emperor). The last 80 turns or so literally felt like the old cultural victory: Just Press Next Turn. The AI was completely unaware of the completely obvious fact that I would win a diplomatic victory handily as soon as a World Leader vote came up unless they did something about it.

Honestly, it's stuff like this that discourages me from even starting another game. What's the point if the AI isn't even trying to win? It seems like the diplomatic victory could be very compelling and entertaining if your opponents were actually trying to prevent you from achieving it. It would still be possible, but it would be a challenge. Right now it's just a cake walk.