English - British

[privatehudson]

I'm for England on the reasons scuffer just mentioned. The Celtic civ to some small extent covers the other areas, and as people have mentioned, you can edit the civ names, so it's really a personal thing

 

[teccuk]

But the English were Celts and the Scottish are'nt really anymore. The difference between the Welsh and the English is only as pronounced as the difference between the Cornish and Geordies or Cumbrian and Kentish, different accents, different words for bread and other stuff, very subtly different look to them and proberbly a strong sense of local and regional history.

But to bring it back to Civ, the Celts represent the civ that lived across the whole of northern europe, the English specifically represent England, but what would England be without the voluntary co-operation between the British nations? Without Welsh slate and coal or Scottish lowland industrial might 'Britian' would've never have taken up a third of the world, and thats the period Britian is remembered as a great civ for.

Come on, it HAS to be Britian. I could go for Queen Vic tho. Can we get a Poll on this?

 

[privatehudson]

My argument was for not including the Welsh, Irish and Scotish civs as independent civs from the start, there's just no need, their impact when outside of the Union is marginal compared to some of the other civs. It wasn't about Britain-England really. I don't care either way, if we don't like it, we can simply change it, it's not the end of the world as we know it

 

[Scuffer]

But to bring it back to Civ, the Celts represent the civ that lived across the whole of northern europe, the English specifically represent England, but what would England be without the voluntary co-operation between the British nations? Without Welsh slate and coal or Scottish lowland industrial might 'Britian' would've never have taken up a third of the world, and thats the period Britian is remembered as a great civ for.

This is what I mean about the different eras of civ's. In Q Liz's time, loads of oak for ship building was important, in Q Vics's coal and iron were vital. It would put a whole different complexion on the english/British civ depending on which era you chose; traits, GA's UU's, city names, the hilarious diplomacy responses etc.

 

[Zenon_pt]

If in cIV the Scot's aren't there, so change the English to British!!!
It's a great Idea.
I allways wanted to found Cardiff or Belfast or Glasglow....

 

[teccuk]

I see what your saying Scuffer. But what about Welsh gold and even Bluestone (as in stonehenge blue stone) way before that and the Cornish and the Orkneys were tarding wool for Tin before the Romans. Its always bugged me that its 'english'. Yeah we can change it, but most civ players probebrly don't know how or can't be bothered, I can change the name and color etc, but leaderheads and all that, leave it out!

No idea why i care so much bout this tho ......

Special unit?

 

[privatehudson]

Tea drinker?

 

[Bast]

Britain is just an island, and British are those people from the island. There are actually technically 3 countries on that island: Scotland, England and Wales. So they should keep their national identity, even if at this stage in world history, they happen to belong to a single sovereignty.

 

[teccuk]

Nope - they should be British, the country boundaries are as artificial as any sense of Britishness anyway, when Britain was 'great' it was as Britain not Eng/Wal/Sco.
End of that one, methinks!

 

[riadsala]

The first Stuart king of Britain was a Scot.

 

[SpaceWolfgang]

Even better lets start with basic tribes Huns, Romanic, Celts Aryian, etc ... and branch off to new civs later in the game >> spain > Visigoth etc.

 

[stormbind]

It's a silly conversation, because nationality is all artificial.

'Briton' can mean many different things, but is earliest incarnation would be the celts who inhabited the British Isles 3000 years ago. That includes the current day Scots, English and Welsh.

The only non-Britons would be the Picts in very north Scotland but they appear to have been wiped out by the Vikings, and perhaps the Irish. Modern day Scottish are more likely decended from Britons, just as the English are, although neither will admit being related to the other

Modern day 'Briton' means anyone from the United Kingdom, which is almost the same meaning as it has when referring to the geography of 3000 years ago!

Britons should be a stock tribe in Civilization games, with English/Welsh/Scots/Picts/Irish being add-on civilisations better suited to specific expansions or scenarios.

 

[riadsala]

I'm Scottish.

And I don't really mind Scotland being in the game.

As it's only a game. And if I want a Scottish civ, I can add it myself, and name the cities whatever.

Would be a waste of time playing around with it.

 

[teccuk]

Well I’m British and I do mind Britain not being in the game, I have relatives from all over the UK not just Eng. I cant be bothered to change it and only just know how to do it anyway!

Nationalism is artificial in one sense in that its invented but in the modern world 'nation states' make up territory with the inhabitants of those states generally having a feeling of belonging to a nation, this is certainly on the wane in Britain with the rise of 'Nationalism' within all three countries, but the geographic terms the island is 'Britain' and the people are 'British'.

I know what would be cool though, a scenario in dark age Britain with Wessex, Picts, Vikings, Scots, Cornish, Celts, Etc. is there one?

 

[mevlin]

English. We don't speak British, we speak English. OK you could argue that the Scots, Welsh and Irish... Hell, a whole load of countries speak it too. OK perhaps not the best argument.

But I still call myself English and not British. If England could have an English Olympic team I'd be all for it.

So England, all the way

 

[Verowin]

There is no point to this discussion, the British Islands will disappear underneath Norway in a couple of million years anyway. Let’s take the biggest open air museum out of the game completely.

 

[Zenon_pt]

Tea drinker?

Nah!!! Cooffee and milk with a cookie or two!!!

 

[majk-iii]

But the English were Celts and the Scottish are'nt really anymore.

...the britons (english) were celts but the Angles and the Saxons were not. Nor were the normands.

Aren't they? ...since when?

 

[James I]

Couldn't the Scots, Irish and Welsh be options in the 'civil war/internal unrest' idea?

 

[sir_schwick]

They were annexed violently by the English, so you really can't consider them civil war. Union vs. Confederacy in the US is a civil war because the Confederacy was not conquered by the Union first and tried to get its independance back.