JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Still using it and probably will always do so. The default is just way too constricting for my taste. This mod mod makes me feel like playing CivII again when I conquer a city. Some Reward for the hard effort of conquering. 
[MOD] Enhanced Conquest Modmod
- Thread starter JosEPh_II
- Start date
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
After 23 months of play with these settings I have 2 observations to report:
1. I have yet to receive a full tech while playing on Emperor or Immortal difficulty levels.
2. But it is immensely satisfying, when I am a full era or even 2 behind the AI and I capture a city, to receive research points towards multiple techs I do not have yet. Under the default settings it was extremely rare to receive any. I may receive points towards as few as 3 or 4. But have received, when really behind, points in as many as 9 techs. The points have ranged from as little as 50+ pts to as much as 6 or 7 hundred points. Max was about 900+. None of these games have not, as of yet, reached an Era beyond Ren Era. Basically, Preh thru Medieval era games.
1. I have yet to receive a full tech while playing on Emperor or Immortal difficulty levels.
2. But it is immensely satisfying, when I am a full era or even 2 behind the AI and I capture a city, to receive research points towards multiple techs I do not have yet. Under the default settings it was extremely rare to receive any. I may receive points towards as few as 3 or 4. But have received, when really behind, points in as many as 9 techs. The points have ranged from as little as 50+ pts to as much as 6 or 7 hundred points. Max was about 900+. None of these games have not, as of yet, reached an Era beyond Ren Era. Basically, Preh thru Medieval era games.
Do "SVN cleanup" just on the EnhancedTechConquest.py file or its folder. Right click, find advanced SVN options and select cleanup, check all checkboxes.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
So did all those Python changes change the way EnhancedTechConquest works? Are my settings now obsolete? Or unworkable?
None of the above.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Thanks
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I really wish this simple adjustment to ETC would be incorporated into the main mod.
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
20% of each tech you don't have that they do seems like a LOT for a base - thus if I take 5 cities I'll get nearly every tech they possessed, and that's before population is factored in as a possible bonus further? Or am I misunderstanding this? I might suggest a touch less on the base, like 10%... Unless I'm not understanding.
I agree that last I played, the bonuses seemed a little too weak and if we're at a base of 0 I can see why.
I agree that last I played, the bonuses seemed a little too weak and if we're at a base of 0 I can see why.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Did you forget that the Pop has a low % as well, small cities give way less than Large cities. And if you can capture 5 Large cities in a short period of time, well you definitely play a different game than I do. Plus I am fighting Barbs well into classical era before I even think about trying to conquer a neighboring AI city. Even so getting a 1000 points towards a tech that is a full era or more ahead of your own research may have 10s of thousands of points yet to be researched. Which may mean a 100(s)+ turns before your level of research points you are generating can finish that tech. Also I do not believe that the research points gained from a city conquered are additive to the ones you May get from the next city you conquer.
And usually by the time I get to Classical era the leading AI(s) has/have tech from Med Era and sometimes even Ren Era.
Finally, I don't play like the War Dog does. Not many people do that plays this mod.
And usually by the time I get to Classical era the leading AI(s) has/have tech from Med Era and sometimes even Ren Era.
Finally, I don't play like the War Dog does. Not many people do that plays this mod.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
I am Calling for this Modmod to be added to the next Release. It is Not OP as some modders assert. I have been using it long before I posted it here as a Modmod. My Numbers have stood the Test of time and gam play. The Mod version is Woefully inept to the point of being worthless.
Changing base percent to 20 will reduce the significance of the "city population" and "the number of techs behind" factors in their ability to affect the result, as the base percent offset will dominate the calculation.
Base percent of 20 will make the calculation pretend you are 21 techs behind a player that you are actually only 1 tech behind.
I would like to rather try to change each tech you are behind to count for 2 base percent rather than just the 1 base percent a tech behind counts for now.
I don't think we should ignore tech prereqs, firstly it will reduce the amount of beakers you get for the techs you do have the prereqs for as the points are spread out across the techs that are to get beakers, meaning the more techs the beakers are distributed to the less beakers each tech will get; I also think it's weird to get progress towards techs that one can't even start research on.
Base percent of 20 will make the calculation pretend you are 21 techs behind a player that you are actually only 1 tech behind.
I would like to rather try to change each tech you are behind to count for 2 base percent rather than just the 1 base percent a tech behind counts for now.
I don't think we should ignore tech prereqs, firstly it will reduce the amount of beakers you get for the techs you do have the prereqs for as the points are spread out across the techs that are to get beakers, meaning the more techs the beakers are distributed to the less beakers each tech will get; I also think it's weird to get progress towards techs that one can't even start research on.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Since when?
I think it's weird to think that conquering a city, whose Empire is move advanced, should give you nothing towards the Tech advances you would find in that conquered city. The people taken in that city would Know how to use that tech and you would learn about it from them. Willingly or even unwillingly.
Not something new, since before this modmod thread was created.
If a spearman from a prehistoric civ conquers an unprotected city belonging to an owner in atomic era, should they get any beakers towards nuclear physics and such?
That's an extreme example, but I think it's generally more natural that one gets a lot of beakers towards the prereq tech from observing something derived from the prereq tech than to get some beakers on the prereq tech and then less beakers on the tech derived from it, and then even less on the one derived from that and so on.
I guess I should make it a bug option for it so that it is easier for people to change the option to their preference than what it currently is.
strategyonly
C2C Supreme Commander
so then whats the difference when using this modmod, and the default. . ,make it short..my brain (radiation brain) doesnt understand more than 2 lines. . .
Much more beakers from conquering cities, number of techs behind and population of city become less significant factors.
It will make it possible to get beakers on techs you can't start research on due to not having invented its prereq techs yet.
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
Absolutely False! You May get some points for that tech (extremely rare When or If you even do). But you will still have to research the preq chain 1st to get to the point you can research the Tech you received some points toward. And this occurrence is very small.
I have Never received a Full tech I was behind the leader. If I'm a full Era behind I have gotten varying amounts of RP (and never more than20% of what is needed to complete the research of that Tech) towards up to 9 Techs In my Era not the Leaders ERA. The instances of even getting RP towards 9 tech is rare, even when a full ERa behind.
Population factor is increase 10% and BtS always Rounds down! you capture a 5 pop city you get .5 more research from Population. I takes at least a 10 pop city to get any gain!
This is a ludicrous and inflammatory projection Toffer90. It will Never happen and you know it. Why radicalize this? I have used this modmod for over 2 years and have NEVER encountered the situations you claim. So just Stop the Hyper overboard statements.
Your settings actually make it almost impossible to get any research points for even a close tech that you have queued up on the tech tree. I know the 20 I used "scares" you. But it does not give away what you claim it does. Heck use 10 instead of the 20. It would still be a better reward than than your impotent castrating settings. How's that for an inflammatory response. Matches your.
@All, use this Modmod and then report here if you are seeing anything close to what Toffer90 is claiming will happen. Give Difficulty level and Game Speed used please.
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You contradicted yourself in the same sentence, and it is not extremely rare if you manage to conquer a city form a player that is far away from you in tech, then it is guaranteed.
It is 100% not false that setting "Check Prereq = False" will allow you to get beakers on techs you don't have the prereq techs for yet.
Population factor is calculated independently, and is not affected at all by this modmod, so all the extra beakers you get from this modmod are unaffected by the population point of the city.
e.g. if one from capturing a specific city
without your modmod get
0 from being behind
100 beakers from number of techs behind (let's say this equal 5 techs behind)
40 beakers from the population size of the city relative to the size of the nation you conquered it from.
A total of 140 beakers where 28.5% is from population of city, and 71.5% is from techs behind
Then one would with your modmod get
400 from being behind (this is the base percent config line)
100 beakers from number of techs behind (let's say this equal 5 techs behind)
40 beakers from the population size of the city relative to the size of the nation you conquered it from.
A total of 540 beakers where 7.5% is from the population of the city, and 18.5% is from number of techs behind and 74% is just the base offset one always get as long as one is behind in tech by at least 1 tech.
I realize now as I lay it out there that I should go back to the code and påerhaps make the base percent a modifier on the final result rather than work the way it currently does, as the current functionality is a bit useless.
I was just trying to make a point that wouldn't be misunderstood, the same point is made with the exact same strength if I had said: If a player that just reached sedentary lifestyle conquers an undefended city from a player an era ahead, would it make sense for it to give you beakers towards e.g. bronze working?
It doesn't scare me, I'm just trying to be helpful here in explaining how the setting work.
Why are you so darned hostile?
Thunderbrd
C2C War Dog
lol
I can see some argument that goes a little like this...
We had an alien ship crash land in sedona arizona. We didn't understand much of the tech on it but it gave us access to observing the tech in use in it, so it acted much like what can happen when you capture a city from a more advanced nation.
We had no idea about fusion tech and numerous other techs in use on the ship eras ahead of where we are. But it did show us some glimmer of what could be done - and that proof made it very possible for us to begin reverse engineering. We quickly captured microwaves, miniaturization of computer chips, stealth tech, all of which we could observe in use here, and got a lot of research towards techs we couldn't even yet begin on because it let us know that these things were actually taking place even if at first we had no idea what it was we were even looking at.
As a result, we rapidly took a quantum leap up the tree, and soon, other observations of techs we had no understanding of started to connect with the simpler things we'd been able to immediately reverse engineer.
So yes, I can kinda see where having some example access to very highly advanced tech beyond the point you're even able to research into, can provide points into those advanced techs to make it faster to get them once you do research further to that point.
Now please don't attack me for supporting your point Joseph!
I really do love you guys - we've been at this for a while haven't we...
And those aliens were creation of grandson of grandson of your grandson
Time travelers > aliens ;^)
JosEPh_II
TBS WarLord
It comes from being ignored, belittled, and not being taken seriously. I do get "emphatic" which does come across as hostile. Born from frustration because I did not capture and save what I'm talking about. (And I do not get RP from every city I capture using my settings too.)
Sidenote: you do not get any RP from a cultural City "flip" either. Only by direct conflict is any given if at all.
I know, I really do appreciate the efforts of All our team. Even when I don't agree with the results. That is part of the give and take of working on a project together, Even part time!
@Toffer90, I Do Appreciate All the things you do for this Mod. Your Diligence Is Awesome!
But understand this. There is no one on the Team, save SO, that actually plays this Mod more than me. I'm actually more of a Beta/SVN/Git/ tester than a modder now and before I got to be part of the Team. And have been a tester from the time SO asked me to play his Brand New Mod called Caveman2Cosmos way back in the day (2009/2010). Over all this time I have probably played (if the hours and days were strung together back to back) over a year or more of my leisure time out of the 13 years this Mod has existed. So when I try, in my limited way, to tell you all something about this Mod Please don't brush me off. Please...
Years ago I was giving too much detail. Now, lol, it seems I don't give enough...and I probably will never hit that sweet spot for the right amount of detail needed. My failure to communicate effectively. Sorry. After 7 decades trying, I don't think I will ever be able to do so.
