Enhancing the flavor of certain civs

[Valkrionn]

I have an idea of civilization trait for Doviellos (and for Malakims and Hippus maybe ?) : nomadism.
This trait allows to dismantle a city with a population of n citizens to gain a settler with a promotion "citizen n", which can build a new city with a starting population of n.
Obviously, the buildings are destroyed. A wonder in the city prevents the demolition ?

To really do the nomad thing well, you need a few things:

1. First and foremost, the game needs to recognize that just because they have no cities placed, doesn't mean they've lost; A nomad leader should have his civ default to require all units killed.
2. Second, and nearly as important, the palace needs to not relocate unless the city is actually destroyed/captured.
3. Then, set up a tracker array on Units/Promotions; A boolean array the size of BuildingInfos. For each building in the city, flip the corresponding bool to 1; This will allow you to recreate every building.
4. Finally, for the population you have two options: One, a new int on units. Two (and the better choice, IMO), import stackable promotions from FF, make a dummy 'Population' promotion, and stack it equal to the amount of population. Only reason I believe this is better is you can then increase the unit's stats based on the city's pop; A small city would be weak, a large city would be powerful.

Yes, I have thought of this quite a bit... Though not for any of the civs you listed, and no, not for a new civ either. It's one that people tend not to think of in nomadic terms, but which would be amazing.

 

[Apeiron]

First and foremost, the game needs to recognize that just because they have no cities placed, doesn't mean they've lost; A nomad leader should have his civ default to require all units killed.

Yes.
In the first turn there is no city, the computer recognize the lack of cities at the end of the turn ?

Second, and nearly as important, the palace needs to not relocate unless the city is actually destroyed/captured.

Why ? we can imagine a "flying palace". ^^

# Then, set up a tracker array on Units/Promotions; A boolean array the size of BuildingInfos. For each building in the city, flip the corresponding bool to 1; This will allow you to recreate every building.

Maybe, but I thought it was more logical to destroy the buildings. It is to balance this power.
Moreover, Tasunke can be interesting with... "recycling" the ancient improvements of land.

Finally, for the population you have two options: One, a new int on units. Two (and the better choice, IMO), import stackable promotions from FF, make a dummy 'Population' promotion, and stack it equal to the amount of population. Only reason I believe this is better is you can then increase the unit's stats based on the city's pop; A small city would be weak, a large city would be powerful.

Nice. ^^

I think it can be really amazing, and can lead to a type of Autrin civilization. ^^

 

[Valkrionn]

Yes.
In the first turn there is no city, the computer recognize the lack of cities at the end of the turn ?

Up until a player (AI or Human) settles their first city, the game considers them as requiring complete kills; It's only after that first city is settled that something changes. I'm not quite sure where that change takes place, however, as I haven't looked into it.

Why ? we can imagine a "flying palace". ^^

Meh. If you DON"T want to preserve buildings, then relocating it is fine; However, if you DO (and I do), then it becomes necessary to make the game discern between packing the city up, and losing it.

Maybe, but I thought it was more logical to destroy the buildings. It is to balance this power.
Moreover, Tasunke can be interesting with... "recycling" the ancient improvements of land.

I see the loss of a city's production/commerce/ability to grow as a better balance, personally.

Nice. ^^

I think it can be really amazing, and can lead to a type of Austrin civilization. ^^

Austrin also aren't who I have in mind...

Though they would be interesting with it, I agree.

 

[Apeiron]

Meh. If you DON"T want to preserve buildings, then relocating it is fine; However, if you DO (and I do), then it becomes necessary to make the game discern between packing the city up, and losing it.

I agree, but the palace is an exception. It should to be moved when the capital is dismantled. Maybe it can be moved in the best city (for maintenance costs calculation, I mean) ?

I see the loss of a city's production/commerce/ability to grow as a better balance, personally.

You are right.

Austrin also aren't who I have in mind...

Though they would be interesting with it, I agree.

If we imagine the Durals can be a part of the Grigoris, we can imagine the Austrin to be a part of Hippus.

Maybe a leader with strange traits and an other world spell ?
(well, it's an another problem)

 

[Grey Fox]

Why dismantle it, just move the city, so the city is always active, just mobile

So for example, you could have a unit represent the city at all times, moving it automatically moves the city to the next plot.
Biggest problem I see here is the culture changes...

 

[Valkrionn]

Why dismantle it, just move the city, so the city is always active, just mobile

So for example, you could have a unit represent the city at all times, moving it automatically moves the city to the next plot.
Biggest problem I see here is the culture changes...

Honestly, that was my first thought, and what I'll likely have to do for what I have in mind... I just dislike the idea of needing a unit to do it.

No way around that really though, I suppose.

 

[Apeiron]

I think it is unrealistic to move city... do you imagine the move of a wall or a forge ?
So, maybe the move should be only for the citizens. Or, maybe free buildings in city with technology ? Money for river port, for example.

But if we accept the solution of "moving cities", your solution is good. ^^

 

[Valkrionn]

Well... My intent with it is not the traditional nomadic group, it's a moving city. For who, how, and why, I won't say.

 

[Imuratep]

It could be quite simple. If you destroy a building you get a number of units that can accelerate production depending on the hammers it costs (essentially slaves without the ability to work tiles. The production value of all units you get: 1/2 hammer cost of the building). You can't move walls. But you can destroy it to transport the materials to build something else. They took great parts of Roman architecture and build some churches out of it. The Romans themselves transported temples of Greek cities they raided to Rome and rebuild them there.
Every city with the nomad trait can cast "Move citizens" to decrease the city by one population, and to get a citizen unit in return (a unit similar to manes). If it was the last point of population the city is disbanded.
In return for this flexibility civs with the nomad trait get double from "it is too crowded here". This way their cities should stay quite small, but you can have a lot of spreaded cities that can build up to an equally big population very quick.
By the way for Austrin (ok this one is offtopic as Austrin are not an Orbis inclusion. But as they were mentioned...) I think they should build heavily on airships as they revere Tali. If you create an early airship unit (that can not enter ocean tiles) this should be quite useful with the nomadic mechanic.

 

[Apeiron]

Yes !
The "slaves" and the for population are a good idea. ^^

Do you think the citizen unit should be able to build a new city ? It may be too powerfull... I don't know.

If it was the last point of population the citizen is disbanded.

Well... the city, not the citizen, isn't it ?

 

[Imuratep]

ehm, yes I will correct it .

 

[Apeiron]

So, is it possible to create a nomadism trait for orbis ?

("up" powaa ^^)

 

[Valkrionn]

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=353958

I'd assume that if the capability to do it well is added somewhere else, uses will be found for it.

Of course, I am NOT saying that I will code it; My use isn't really nomadic. That link just shows several different ways to do it.

 

[arkham4269]

I apologize if this is already done but my laptop has graphics problems so I can't play Orbis and my wive's machine may have taken a critical hit from a virus so I have no way to check this. But prior to 0.30, what sort of graphical changes are going to be made? I seem to recall some changes being made to the Malakim and it made me wonder, do they use the Xebec graphic for their Frigate and if not, why not?

Plus I don't know what pre-made ship graphics are out there, but I remember doing my research for galleas and the like that there are a lot of variants in the cog/caravel design. If I remember right there is a more Mediterranean version, heavy on the lateen sails like the Xebec. Any change of those being used?

I know Orbis and vanilla BTS has naval issues, but I've always hoped that at least we could get more graphics for the ships since almost all of them are identical and that's just boring. Oh well, at least the Dao will have some nice artwork!

 

[Ahwaric]

But prior to 0.30, what sort of graphical changes are going to be made? I seem to recall some changes being made to the Malakim and it made me wonder, do they use the Xebec graphic for their Frigate and if not, why not?

Whatever I will be able to do in the short time I had left. If you want to help, check the file database, and send me the info: "This art should be used for unit x for civilization y". Or: "mod v uses unit z that would be great for unit x for civ y".
Some usefull links:
Civ IV units graphics database: http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=5
Nifskope, a nice small program that allows viewing civ art files: http://sourceforge.net/projects/niftools/files/nifskope/

For now, I have added unique art to 90% of Dao units and 50% of Palatinate. Also did a general clearing of unit & building arts (but that is never finished) and added some new art here and there.
I have yet to change guild symbols (some of the old ones were supposed to be temporary...) and some guild headquaters.
I really wanted to do the malakim & sidar, but I might run out of time, and finishing already started things has a priority - I want to release at least beta version, not alpha
So, if you can help with finding new art, I would appreciate it. I will add it on my own, just do not have the time to look for it when I have to actually create some art.

 

[Valkrionn]

Here's some art (or rather, an animation) you may be interested in for the Mechanos... A rifleman who actually attacks with his bayonet if they get in melee range.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=14237