Enlightenment Era for VP (4.22)

[The Ayyubid]

Update:
Working with Jarcast, have added new triggers to try to maintain compatibility with custom civs that add Workshop and Windmill replacements.
With Adan, have harmonized the WonderCost tables between EE and More Wonders.
Further, I have rebalanced Building Costs to account for increased game length. Later in the week I will try to do the same for Units

Hi there! Three things, Navigation, Architecture and Metallurgy. Thank you for taking up the mantle I've enjoyed your changes. The Galleon at Navigation should be reverted as there's no upgrade to the Med Era ranged ships. It also produces the problem you fixed with the Caravel-Carracks, that being that they are one tech apart. The Windmill-Workshop change makes sense esthetically however the ability to move production is moved as well, 20 vs 32 techs. The Russian UC bug (Metallurgy) was fixed, thank you. I love this Mod and am glad you're helping improve it!

 

[hokath]

I love this Mod and am glad you're helping improve it!

So much work had gone into it, and people kept asking in discord, so I felt it would be a good use of time. I'm happy to hear you're enjoying the game with EE!

there's no upgrade to the Med Era ranged ships

I'm not sure I understand, you mean there's no ranged ship in the Renaissance Era? Or the upgrade from Galleass to Galleon isn't working? It is intended to be 3 tech eras apart (like Liburna -> Galleass)

It also produces the problem you fixed with the Caravel-Carracks, that being that they are one tech apart.

This is intentional. Galleon co-exist with Frigate and occupy different roles because they still move-after-attack. Indeed the other day there was a discussion on discord where someone wasn't upgrading Galleass to Frigate because it was actually much weaker at sieging Cities. Overall there's much more work to do on naval balance, see the discussion on the previous page.

The Windmill-Workshop change makes sense esthetically however the ability to move production is moved as well, 20 vs 32 techs.

Yes there are many headaches with this change but I felt I had to make it.
Indeed, the ability to move production is now even later. Better get those Stone Works!
(I think the better solution to this is to move the ability to move Production to the Forge or similar non-gated early building. This let's the Capital boost your satellites. See my tweaks mod for this change)

 

[jarcast2]

Personally I don't understand why also the ability to give Production internal TR was not swapped hence altering the original balance, then suggesting using another mod to make up for it.
It's messy in my opinion.
For this reason I adjusted the file to give AllowsProductionTradeRoutes=1 to the windmill and remove it from workshop.

I attached the file here for the kindred spirits.
It replaces the file in the Documents\My Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 5\MODS\Enlightenment Era for VP\SQL folder.

 

[hokath]

My logic was that there is no RP reason why Windmill would allow that to happen.
Windmill has a lot more text compared to Workshop also which probably subconsciously influenced me.
In terms of balance, it's much of a muchness in my opinion but I appreciate other people might be more attached to that placement than me.

I can make this change to the mod

 

[SerbianYugoThief]

My logic was that there is no RP reason why Windmill would allow that to happen.
Windmill has a lot more text compared to Workshop also which probably subconsciously influenced me.
In terms of balance, it's much of a muchness in my opinion but I appreciate other people might be more attached to that placement than me.

I can make this change to the mod

I for one definitely prefer it at Workshop. Windmill is too far out for me, personally.

 

[AndreyK]

Where can I change costs of techs? It's 800 BC and some AI's completed more than half of the Classical Age, I believe they will get Medieval Era about 300 BC.

 

[AndreyK]

Found it, I play in Epic speed, but it seems there is no scaling. What about policy costs, seems they also not scaling?

 

[AndreyK]

Changed values in EEVP_Techs and now they are half more expensive ....

 

[hokath]

These "sweep tables" set the base cost of things, and then speed scaling is on top of that.
So the EE tech sweep in EEVP_Techs.sql with values

Spoiler :

INSERT INTO TechCosts
VALUES
(0, 20),
(1, 60),
(2, 100),
(3, 130),
(4, 275),
(5, 500),
(6, 700),
(7, 1750),
(8, 2400),
(9, 3600),
(10, 5000),
(11, 7400),
(12, 9800),
(13, 12000),
(14, 14000),
(15, 17100),
(16, 20400),
(17, 24500), -- linear extrapolation
(18, 27500),
(19, 29000),
(20, 31000);

should be compared to the VP values which are in DatabaseChanges/Tech/TechCostSweeps.sql

Spoiler :

INSERT INTO TechCosts
VALUES
(0, 20),
(1, 60),
(2, 100),
(3, 130),
(4, 275),
(5, 500),
(6, 700),
(7, 1750),
(8, 2400),
(9, 3600),
(10, 5150),
(11, 8100),
(12, 11000),
(13, 13000),
(14, 16000),
(15, 19100),
(16, 23400),
(17, 24450),
(18, 28550);

So I haven't changed anything before grid 10 or 11, which are the late-enlightenment/early-industrial values.

It's 800 BC and some AI's completed more than half of the Classical Age, I believe they will get Medieval Era about 300 BC.

So this observation shouldn't be related directly to tech costs from this mod.
All Policy costs should be more expensive than before, so that is also ruled out (if they were cheaper everyone could research faster because more yields, I had this happen to me in testing)
If things feel much faster this early then maybe you had some other mod changing tech costs and this one overrided its changes?

 

[AndreyK]

I think that something went wrong with first install, because tech costs were exactly as in EEVP_Techs.sql. Now they scale, I also made some tweaks to make techs and policies costs bigger, because I have some modmods that probably give more yields. Also I think that in VP in general science accumulates to fast, and I like more real life pace, so as to get Renaissance by 1250-1300 and Industrial 1750-1800.

 

[hokath]

The in game calendar is based on elapsed turns, so you can't really refer to it as a consistent metric (if its reasonable on King, it wont be on Immortal, etc.)
But the general sentiment that some parts feel they go too fast is a good one and I think marks a sort of end-goal of the VP project (that additions like this don't help with lol)

This data from Vern's Emperor AI tests for example we can look at and say

Spoiler :

"ok medieval T2 is too fast, let's increase tech costs there a bit"
but that has a knock-on effect to what's available, what sort of population cities have when certain buildings unlock and so what yields they give, even how far units can move before their upgrades become available and so how viable a big war will be.
So it's a tough problem. Hopefully we get there in the end, probably with this sort of simulation-based optimization approach.