Epic Mod Ideas: Compilation of Suggestions

[A Viking Yeti]

I would give all units with any ranged weaponry a bombard value, and 0 range to represent their first shot. I'm not sure if this ahs been done before in an epic mod, but I tried it out, and it makes ranged units much more useful (a warrior alone can probably be killed by an archer, assuming they're on level terrain, but an archer versus an archer with the initial bombard strike is much less likely to win).

Slave trade needs to be added... Added production, polution, and unhappyness. I think this is definitly lacking in the game.

Guerillas need hidden nationality, and possibly invisibility (unless that would upset game balance too much). This makes them much more useful for pillaging, worker and settler capturing, and gives you a way to mess with the AI during peace time. I've seen wars carried out with just Guerillas during 'peacful' times because the two countries went to war and didn't like each other... Of course this quickly leads back to war, but I think that's pretty realistic.

I think we should give each normal citizen +1 gold, and then give "heavy" and industrial/modern age units 2 to 3 gold cost. This would allow larger armies consiting of low-quality units, or smaller armies of high-quality units.

I also triple the research cost of ancient techs, double the middle age techs, and leave the rest normal. That may sound a bit extreme, but it leaves time for many ancient age wars, that I found to be lacking.

Also, test frequently... At times, the AI seems like it knows the game inside and out, and at other times... You'd think the AI was just a small child mashing the keyboard to see the pretty colors. The AI can and will act unexpectedly.

 

[spincrus]

One of the biggest gaps I find are between unit upgrades. Here are some examples that just came to my mind while I was working on my new personal epic mod:

- Medieval Infantry and Guerilla: There is one and a half (almost) era that passes between the introduction of these two units into the epic game. Instead of just crowding the game with extreme amount of units, it's best to just put a unit in the middle of these two; like the Swashbuckler of Kinboat, for example.

- Knight and Cavalry: There has to be some sort of a unit in between, which I usually call "dragoon" in my epic mods. I tend to use the graphics of the Austrian Hussar unit that comes with C3C, which also gives me the space to use certain really neat flavor units that are posted out there.

- Infantry to Modern Infantry: There is this famous Modern Infantry unit out there, and that's what I use instead of Mechanised Infantry. I use that unit as an upgrade to Halftrack, which comes at the same time around when the regular Infantry unit comes, or maybe a little later. This allows me to have two kinds of defensive units: a foot defense unit and a mechanised defense unit. Simply the mechanised costs more, but has more mobility.

Another thing is, that I put an incredible amount of variety to the luxury resources. I set them up in such a way that they don't appear too much, but there are a lot of variety, so more options in diplomacy.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

First off, I completely disagree with HN for Guerillas... you can't have other civs simply upgrading all of their old Med. Infantry and storming across your borders capturing workers and pillaging the hell out of all your lands... If you've got an island to yourself, you don't notice, but if not, it's just one huge pain in the butt! Besides, there is no basis for this in history... mercenaries, guerillas... you KNOW where they come from... even if they don't officially declare themselves, you know. I think that if you're going to wage a proxy war with your guerillas, it ought to gradually piss off the AI until they declare war... I mean, you would do it.... I would do it... If I see a bunch of Guerillas coming across the border, I already know where they're coming from...

I agree about Infantry to Modern Infantry... I always thought that being able to Draft a Mech. Infantry was the most ludicrous thing I've ever seen... How can you just rush brand-spanking new mech infantry vehicles into the field when you had to spend all that time building them before?? I HATED when I was pushing onto an AI city and didn't have enough troops to take it that turn and then the next turn, there's two brand new Mech Infantry in the city... Conscript, but Mech Infantry nonetheless.

 

[Sword_Of_Geddon]

Well, for me its filling in things that Civ3 didn't have, for example:

1. The Age of Sail....I find it hard to believe that the first Warships appeared during Colonial Times, so in Far Horizons, I added a whole slew of Warships, starting in late Ancient Times(Many thanks to you Kraken and Aaglo for those)

2. Flavor.....Why does all the units look European except for the UUs? In my mod I tried to civ the other culture groups their own feel, with flavor units...this continues until the Infantry appears, when in the real world, most armies began to look the same

3. Missing Government types: Almost every Epic mod has Fundamentalism

4. The Future: Hotly debated topic, but in my mod I like the tech tree to continue until the time limit elaspes(which I've also increased), near future infantry, Aerospace Fighters, and eventually Far Future stuff like Laser Tanks, Mechs, and Space ships are all present in my mod....plus I included two Future Governments.

 

[Pleb]

Why isn't it realistic? Nowadays you have more planes up in the air than on the ground. Moving them from airbase to airbase instantanously is unrealistic...

 

[WildWeazel]

Why isn't it realistic? Nowadays you have more planes up in the air than on the ground. Moving them from airbase to airbase instantanously is unrealistic...

Well in C3C you can only rebase an aircraft to a base up to 4 times it operational range away ( I would have made it 3, but it's better than infinite), so you cant send a plane halfway around the globe instantly. Also, the way air missions work in Civ3 is faily realistic- a plane takes off from a base, flies to a certain location, does its job, and returns to base (and if it has an extra MP it can then rebase too). Before, a plane moved around the map just like a ground unit, and stopped in the middle of nowhere at the end of each turn. And IIRC it engaged in battle just like any other ground unit- it could be attacked by a phalanx, or any other unit. It had to stop in a city before it ran out of fuel, but other than that it behaved just like infantry. While C3C's air units could be better, it's an advancement over the other versions IMO.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

Well in C3C you can only rebase an aircraft to a base up to 4 times it operational range away ( I would have made it 3, but it's better than infinite), so you cant send a plane halfway around the globe instantly. Also, the way air missions work in Civ3 is faily realistic- a plane takes off from a base, flies to a certain location, does its job, and returns to base (and if it has an extra MP it can then rebase too). Before, a plane moved around the map just like a ground unit, and stopped in the middle of nowhere at the end of each turn. And IIRC it engaged in battle just like any other ground unit- it could be attacked by a phalanx, or any other unit. It had to stop in a city before it ran out of fuel, but other than that it behaved just like infantry. While C3C's air units could be better, it's an advancement over the other versions IMO.

I couldn't agree more... I hated in Civ1 & 2 that I'd try to bomb a city and be killed by a rifleman... it just made absolutely no sense whatsoever. And the other frustrating thing was going, hitting your target, and then realizing you didn't have enough fuel to get back... or worse, if you hit the wrong key... It just made no sense... You don't just send a plane off into the wild blue yonder and hope it comes back...

I actually would've made the max distance for rebasing 2X the operational range... after all, the idea behind the operational range is that it has enough fuel to hit its target and then fly back. If it's rebasing, it doesn't have to fly back and so can expend all of its fuel just getting to it's destination.

Question: can that number be altered? Or is it hard-coded?

 

[WildWeazel]

As far as I can tell it's hardcoded. I can't find it in the editor anywhere. The reason it's not 2 times is that an aircraft on a combat mission is loaded down with ammo, which decreases range, and also has to have plenty of fuel for dogfights and/or evading the enemy. A plane that takes off with nothing but fuel, flies in a relatively straight line, and lands is much more fuel-efficient than a plane on a combat mission. In fact, extra fuel tanks can be added in place of weapons on some planes to further increase range. So aircraft can rebase to quite a distance without worrying about fuel.

 

[Dom Pedro II]

As far as I can tell it's hardcoded. I can't find it in the editor anywhere. The reason it's not 2 times is that an aircraft on a combat mission is loaded down with ammo, which decreases range, and also has to have plenty of fuel for dogfights and/or evading the enemy. A plane that takes off with nothing but fuel, flies in a relatively straight line, and lands is much more fuel-efficient than a plane on a combat mission. In fact, extra fuel tanks can be added in place of weapons on some planes to further increase range. So aircraft can rebase to quite a distance without worrying about fuel.

Well, at least that's YOUR rationalization... it's quite possible that didn't even occur to the guys at Firaxis...

 

[Colonel Kraken]

I have really enjoyed the effects of having all units cost 1 population. Save for a few exceptions (Explorers? Naval Units, which the AI builds precious few of anyway. Maybe Air Units and/or Artillery Units.), having units cost a pop point may decrease the rate at which you may build units. I've found it can be a very handy tool to control city population. Another cool benefit is to be able to use this as one more way to make a Unique Unit that much more unique --not cost a population point. That can make for some interesting unique unit combos. Does it affect the AI? Whenever I've used it, I don't believe I've seen it be a problem for the AI.

 

[Steph]

From the beginning of my modding attempts, units have cost populations. But not always 1.
Aircrafts, special forces,ships, knights will require only 1.
Warrior, archer, can cost 2.
Napoleonic infantry can cost 3.

Also, the HP varies more. I use HP to represent the size of a unit, and attack/defense to represent its efficiency.

For instance, Frankish knights could be 10/6, 2 HP, and Saracen light cavalry 6/3, 4 HP. The Saracen have many more horsemen, but they are weaker.

 

[Steph]

The current "withdraw" model sucks, as the difference in speed is not use : units with 3 MP and units with 2 MP works the same.

My conclusion was : this feature is useless. Therefore, I had no remorse in getting rid of it. How? all the units have a minimum of 2 MP.

The minimum cost of all terrain is 2MP.

Why? Now I can use the ignore terrain flag with a real effect. If you make Camel with a bonus in desert, but desert cost is one, you miss the point. But if desert cost 2...

Also, I have x3 the MP of boats. But also make coast cost 3MP, sea 2 MP and ocean 1 MP. It prevents a very fast exploration of the coast, but make trans oecanic travel lot faster.

 

[Steph]

If I give archer a defensive bombardment because they have a range attack, then I should give infantry a defensive bombardment. But then, what is the use of machine gun?


The idea here is to make the historical use of unit prevail, relatively to their era.

So in ancient and medieval era, archers are used as support troops, not "attacker" (warrior are attacker).

So I give defensive bombardment to archers.

In the modern era, this support role is played by machine gun. They also get the defensive bombardment.

But infantry don't have it. Why? Because it's not their role!

It may seem unfair has infantry will not have this while archer have it. But... the infantry has much better stats than the archer.

The result is I don't look at the actual weapons and/or armor of a unit to decide which stats to use, but I look more into its role on the battlefield

 

[Colonel Kraken]

From the beginning of my modding attempts, units have cost populations. But not always 1.
Aircrafts, special forces,ships, knights will require only 1.
Warrior, archer, can cost 2.
Napoleonic infantry can cost 3.

Also, the HP varies more. I use HP to represent the size of a unit, and attack/defense to represent its efficiency.

For instance, Frankish knights could be 10/6, 2 HP, and Saracen light cavalry 6/3, 4 HP. The Saracen have many more horsemen, but they are weaker.

That's a really cool idea. The way I look it, however, is that as units become more technologically advanced, it takes fewer men to equal (or surpass) the same combat power for older units. So, if one pop worth of Swordsman faces one pop worth of Riflemen, they naturally have greater combat stats.

I really don't know which way is better --if there is a better way. I use HP to merely represent certain units being able to take a lot more damage. I think you way, however, can be tweaked a lot nicer and get some very nice results.

I've never seen that before. Very cool.

 

[WildWeazel]

Thats similar to the Civil War mod- divisions had similar attack and defense but 2-3 times the HP

 

[Colonel Kraken]

Also, I have x3 the MP of ats.

Steph, what do you mean by "ats"?

 

[Steph]

Steph, what do you mean by "ats"?

"ats" are boats which have lost their "bo"

 

[mrtn]

... If you make Camel with a bonus in desert, but desert cost is one, you miss the point. ...

Something related: Say you have a "Desert Warrior" with a move of one. If you give this "ignore movement cost" of desert (modded to move 2), this may seem pointless, but it isn't. If you make a "Desert Warrior" army it will have a move of two, and will ignore desert movement cost.

 

[Steph]

That's a really cool idea. The way I look it, however, is that as units become more technologically advanced, it takes fewer men to equal (or surpass) the same combat power for older units. So, if one pop worth of Swordsman faces one pop worth of Riflemen, they naturally have greater combat stats.

I forgot to tell. All the units can join cities. So basically, when you have finished a war, it's sometime wise to just disband your army and tell them to go home.

About your remark ("it takes fewer men to equal (or surpass) the same combat power for older units").

I disagree here. The important issue is not "how many men are going into the army", but "how many men are needed to support the army"

An armored division has much more firepower than a roman legion. But for 1 tank with a crew of 4-5 men, how many people must repair it, bring oil, and organize everything?

Second question : what is the education level needed to make a legionary, and to train the technician needed to maintain a tank?

That's why an armor division could require the same pop as a legion, because they require this support.

But small size unit (ie : Special Forces) don't require so much population.

It has to be designed with the relative size and usage of the unit in its era.

 

[Steph]

I really don't know which way is better --if there is a better way. I use HP to merely represent certain units being able to take a lot more damage. I think you way, however, can be tweaked a lot nicer and get some very nice results.

Trust me, when your hidden nationality / invisible / defensive bombarment / paradrop/ high attack Special Forces costs a lot to produce and have ...only 1 HP, you don't use them in the same way as your infantry with no flags but 5 HP.