Essus Again

[Emptiness]

Having units that can mask does nothing to interfere with the ability to conduct a normal war. It adds the option to conduct a covert war. If you don't need to conduct a covert war (or it is somehow "less effective") then you still can. I don't see an advantage to not having the covert war option.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I don't see an advantage to not having the covert war option.

Of course there's no advantage in that, but there isn't much advantage in having that ability, too.

 

[Neomega]

What civs find capturing cities uneffective?

Civs whose UU's are recon units have a harder time capturing cities. Civs who don't have special industrial/war civics. Leaders whose attributes are more peaceful attributes.

 

[Bill Bisco]

I would never saying capturing a city is uneffective. Civs can capture cities just fine. The issue is merely that everything else being equal, it's better to have aggressive and raiders when attacking a city. The problem is that everything is not equal, and the Traits of Philosophical and Financial often increase the speed of getting more powerful units so that capturing is more than possible.

 

[Neomega]

I already explained why... not being able to afford more wars and such. I think Esus is fine.

 

[Bill Bisco]

The number of MP games where Essus comes up should tell you that it's not fine

 

[Neomega]

The number of MP games where Essus comes up should tell you that it's not fine

Esus sucks in MP because Hidden Nationality is useless in MP.

 

[Bill Bisco]

Essus sucks because its a late religion tech and requires either Warhorses tech (lots of techs) or Guilds tech (lots of techs) to get its good units. On top of that it doesn't even have darn priests to cast Neat-o spells.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I already explained why... not being able to afford more wars and such.

Leaders with peaceful economical attributes are more likely to be able to afford wars.

 

[Neomega]

Leaders with peaceful economical attributes are more likely to be able to afford wars.

I meant "afford" as in military power. Meaning I don't want to open more fronts. I usually play on 30% tectonics, with lots of civs, and many times I border 5 or 6 other civs.

HN units can hit enemies, or upcoming enemies, before they declare full scale war. I also use them to stop friends from exploring my territory ( i do not share maps, or let people scout) I will kill anything not mine that comes in my borders.

 

[Fafnir13]

Esus sucks in MP because Hidden Nationality is useless in MP.

Precisely. The HN aspects may make it desirable against dumb-as-nails AI, but it needs some more stuff to make it a viable choice in MP.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I meant "afford" as in military power. Meaning I don't want to open more fronts. I usually play on 30% tectonics, with lots of civs, and many times I border 5 or 6 other civs.

I'd rather send all the units besides some mobile defence to one front, not waste my units being HN and pillaging while big stuff is happening elsewhere.

HN units can hit enemies, or upcoming enemies, before they declare full scale war. I also use them to stop friends from exploring my territory ( i do not share maps, or let people scout) I will kill anything not mine that comes in my borders.

Since AI's suck at using the map knowledge effectively, that's a pointless endeavour against it, and that would surely bring the wraith of a human player.

 

[Neomega]

I'd rather send all the units besides some mobile defence to one front, not waste my units being HN and pillaging while big stuff is happening elsewhere.

I get it. You are the uber FFH player.

 

[Bad Player]

Maybe Esus should have a link to magic, in particular darker magic. Perhaps having Esus as your state religion should give magic benefits or something. Maybe something like giving all CoE units channeling I and all mana types you have if you have built the relevant tower (e.g. if you have built tower of necromancy then your CoE units get channeling I and death, shadow, entropy promotions).


Since Esus is about deceiving other people, maybe CoE units should not have their promotions visible to other players.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I get it. You are the uber FFH player.

You are correct.

 

[Bill Bisco]

Maybe Esus should have a link to magic, in particular darker magic. Perhaps having Esus as your state religion should give magic benefits or something. Maybe something like giving all CoE units channeling I and all mana types you have if you have built the relevant tower (e.g. if you have built tower of necromancy then your CoE units get channeling I and death, shadow, entropy promotions).


Since Esus is about deceiving other people, maybe CoE units should not have their promotions visible to other players.

Here are all the steps to determining how good a religion is:

1. Does it have units and abilities that will help you kill an opponent better than other religions?

2. How accessible are these units and/or abilities

Essus fails the test.

 

[Onionsoilder]

Quick question: Does Esus's ability to see opponent's cities require using it as a state religion/having Nox Noctis? Or do you simply need to own the holycity?

 

[Emptiness]

You must own the holy city and follow CoE. I don't believe that Nox Noctis is required.

 

[Calavente]

Here are all the steps to determining how good a religion is:

1. Does it have units and abilities that will help you kill an opponent better than other religions?

2. How accessible are these units and/or abilities

Essus fails the test.

--> Gibbeon Goetia... 1st archmage level hero !
--> only religion with tier 4 units (shadowriders) !!

--> declare war with being pushed out of the borders : uber powerful to snatch startegic cities... on choke points... on ressources... especially when invading another continent where you can't have a foothold !

--> ok, nightwatch .. . is not so good especially as you don't need esus as state religion to get it.
--> shadows : do not count toward esus as you don't need it as State Religion
--> scout that can cast mask .. --> idem

 

[Tasunke]

--> Gibbeon Goetia... 1st archmage level hero !
--> only religion with tier 4 units (shadowriders) !!

The other civs get tier 4 units as well, they are Called HIGH PRIESTS ;D ... and some even have limited access to TREANTS and BALORS.

You get one archmage in a completely NON-magical religion otherwise, as a trade off for a strong early hero and a strong late hero. And your counter part empyrean?! they get CHALID!!!!!