Ethiopians?
- Thread starter Monty Python Ni
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cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
and they were more like a "normal" civ than the Sioux. however, in my opinion, the most "civ-like" civ of North America, excluding MesoAmerica, were the Missisipans. however, we don't know any of their leaders, so we can't put them in.
to go back on topic, its a good thing Firaxis finally put in another African civ besides the Zulu (and Malians)
to go back on topic, its a good thing Firaxis finally put in another African civ besides the Zulu (and Malians)
bonafide11
Worker
Culture, I reckon.
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
maybe aggressive to a slight degree with religious background, but trading and commerce important too.
I don't see what everyone has against the Zulu. They had a large empire, Shaka basically 'reformed' the military of the area, they pissed of the British for a while and still remain a major ethnic group in southern africa (in fact, I think they're the biggest).
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
^some people don't read their history. and besides pissing off the British, they actually defeated the British army (arguably the best in the world at the time) a few times, even with generally primitive weaponry (though a few did have guns, tohugh not many and they weretn effective)
though i will say i think Zulu should be behind more "civy" civs like the Malians or the Ethiopians
though i will say i think Zulu should be behind more "civy" civs like the Malians or the Ethiopians
bonafide11
Worker
I have no problem with the Zulus being included. In fact, I'm glad they're included. 
gostanford22
Prince
Italy did NOT ever successfully defeat Ethiopia. They failed in the late nineteenth century, and they eventually failed again under Mussolini during WWII. Furthermore, Ethiopia is one of the oldest lasting Civilizations in the world, dating back to 1000BC. It was also one of the first nations to adopt Christianity as a state religion. The inclusion of Ethiopia is deifnitely a great addition for Civilization, and I applaud Firaxis for the choice!
Since I've been posting about how Ethiopia should be included for several months now, I like to think that I had something to do with Firaxis' decision to include them, but in reality, they probably chose Ethiopia long before I even heard of BTS...
The only reason Mussolini failed is because the Brits helped Ethiopia that time. Plus the Italian Army was on there heels.
I think in the next expansion we'll be getting more African civs, since Civ 4 has basically dried at Europe (at most their's 6 European civs left... and that's a stretch). All that's left are Austria, the Huns, Italy and Macedon, but Macedon seems to be included into Greece for some reason, so that leaves 3.
NubianMercenary
Warlord
: Well, I do not know much about Ethiopian history as I do about Zulu, but I am pretty sure that Ethiopia annexed (probably conquered/assimilated) over 15 kingdoms, some of them were - Garo, Kaffa, Moti, Limmu, Zion, Gomma, Jan-Jeroo.
:
: Not to mention their famous defense against European penetration during Colonial era etc....
:
: Not to mention their famous defense against European penetration during Colonial era etc....
dh_epic
Cold War Veteran
There's always plenty more Europe if they want it. Poland is a popular choice. The Slavs, in general. The Albanians, and their predecessors the Illyrians. The Huns and Austrians, as you stated. Acknowledging the contributions of the Swiss, the Hungarians, and Croatians would be popular.
And if they can have the Holy Roman Empire and Byzantines, they can definitely have Italy. But why stop there? Why not Venice and Florence -- as separate city states? You could have the Franks, the Gauls, and the Burgundians. And even though there's already the Vikings, there would be plenty of support for pulling apart the Fins, Swedes, and Norwegians.
Never underestimate the subtle dominance of Eurocentricism
It's a powerful state of mind.
And if they can have the Holy Roman Empire and Byzantines, they can definitely have Italy. But why stop there? Why not Venice and Florence -- as separate city states? You could have the Franks, the Gauls, and the Burgundians. And even though there's already the Vikings, there would be plenty of support for pulling apart the Fins, Swedes, and Norwegians.
Never underestimate the subtle dominance of Eurocentricism
It's a powerful state of mind.KrikkitTwo
Immortal
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Scotland, Wales, Irish
Finns, and Basque for some truly unique groups
Ukraine
I've seen arguments for Bulgaria before
Macedonia, Athens, Sparta (Greece now stands for Modern Greece)
Normans
Britons, UK, and the Commonwealth (as seperate from the English)
Castile, Aragon
the Soviet Union (as seperate from the Russians)
Armenians
Belgians
European Union
Lichtenstein, Luxembourg
Saxony, Bohemia, Prussia
Czechs, Slovaks, and Czechoslovakians
Iceland
Papal states
Etruscans
Vandals
Goths
Visigoths
Hanseatic League
OK I'm out for now... that makes 35 new European civs (57 including ones from other posts)
Finns, and Basque for some truly unique groups
Ukraine
I've seen arguments for Bulgaria before
Macedonia, Athens, Sparta (Greece now stands for Modern Greece)
Normans
Britons, UK, and the Commonwealth (as seperate from the English)
Castile, Aragon
the Soviet Union (as seperate from the Russians)
Armenians
Belgians
European Union
Lichtenstein, Luxembourg
Saxony, Bohemia, Prussia
Czechs, Slovaks, and Czechoslovakians
Iceland
Papal states
Etruscans
Vandals
Goths
Visigoths
Hanseatic League
OK I'm out for now... that makes 35 new European civs (57 including ones from other posts)
cybrxkhan
Asian Xwedodah
some more:
- Georgia
- Thrace
- Catalonia
- Navarre
- Burgundy
- Genoa
- Milan
- Ostrogoths
- Gepids
- Alemanni
- Lapps
etc.
- Georgia
- Thrace
- Catalonia
- Navarre
- Burgundy
- Genoa
- Milan
- Ostrogoths
- Gepids
- Alemanni
- Lapps
etc.
The Brits helped expel the Italians from the country. But the Italians never conquered the entire territory. There remained large swaths outside of the urban areas where the Italians had no control.
NubianMercenary
Warlord
: Then again, the Italians never conquered much outside of Europe/Africa 
.
.
bonafide11
Worker
: Then again, the Italians never conquered much outside of Europe/Africa
Well, considering it's surrounded by Europe and Africa, I'm not really sure what that is supposed to prove. Also, remember Italy has only been a united state since 1861. At its height, the Roman Empire, which was centered in present day Italy, controlled most of Europe, northern Africa, and western Asia.
1. I know, but having those would be a bit of a stretch.There's always plenty more Europe if they want it. Poland is a popular choice. The Slavs, in general. The Albanians, and their predecessors the Illyrians. The Huns and Austrians, as you stated. Acknowledging the contributions of the Swiss, the Hungarians, and Croatians would be popular.
And if they can have the Holy Roman Empire and Byzantines, they can definitely have Italy. But why stop there? Why not Venice and Florence -- as separate city states? You could have the Franks, the Gauls, and the Burgundians. And even though there's already the Vikings, there would be plenty of support for pulling apart the Fins, Swedes, and Norwegians.
Never underestimate the subtle dominance of Eurocentricism
2. I would prefer a single Italy. They definately have a unified culture, and I dunno if Florence on it's own did much (not disputing Venice though). I would like the Franks (with Charlemagne as a leader) the Gauls (no other Celtic civ though) instead of HRE and Celts as well. I would prefer a Scandinavian civ, as well, but I would be fine with Denmark and Sweden seperate (Norway and Finland? From what I heard, they didn't do as much as the Danes and Swedes).
3. Eurocentrism? MUST KILL
!!!I hope you where joking
Most of those are just redidiculous... Etruscans aren't very important, Papal States could be represented by Italy (it would be wierd to have 3 civs with Rome as the capital), Visgoths are Goths, having so many different Germanic tribes is silly, etc.... Normandy is part of France, EU is a good idea, Prussia = Germany, Armenia's not in Europe... Iceland would be in the Scandinavian civ... the Soviet Union could work... Castile+Aragon = Spain, Macedon I agree with, Athens and Sparta should be a single civ (they had a single ethnic and cultural identity)... Scotland, Wales, Irish firstly are represented by celts, and secondly arent very important, Finns and Basques didnt do much again. Phew. *wipes sweat off forehead* Wait- Normandy is in France, and William the Conq. would be an English leader.
Georgia? WTH? Thrace is an unimportant ancient state... Catalon is in Spain, Milan would be repped by Italy, Ostrogoths, again, are Goths, and the others I just haven't hord of.
I would just prefer some major Indian subcontinent, some semi-major Eastern Asian civs, and any african civs instead of minor European civs.
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