Ethnic tension in Lithuania

[Domen]

Southern regions of what is now Lithuania - especially the Wilno Region - used to be inhabited by Polish majority (and in fact the countryside is still inhabited by Polish majority in many areas of the Wilno Region, despite wartime ethnic cleansing and post-WW2 westward deportations of local Poles).

That was the result of centuries long Polonization of local population, as well as migrations and settlement of people from Poland.

Here is what author of a preface to "Lithuanian Homily" from year 1599 wrote about Polonization of Lithuanians:

[quote="author of a preface to "Lithuanian Homily" from year 1599"[/quote]

Our own Lithuanian people, preferring the knowledge of Polish language and fluency in this language, are neglecting, abandoning and rejecting their own language - everyone can clearly see this. How advisable is this tendency, I do not know, some people praise it.

My reason tells me that it is indeed not admirable to condemn the people's fluency and knowledge in foreign languages, especially Polish - which is almost like innate language to us, due to the beloved unification of our Grand Duchy with the famous Crown of Poland.

However, I do criticize the negligence, abomination and almost rejection of our own Lithuanian language by many of our people. (...)[/quote]

And here are numbers of Lithuanians in Wilno (Vilnius), historical capital of Lithuania, in various years:

1897 census - 2,0% (3,131 Lithuanians out of 154,532 total population)
1916 census - 2,6% (3,699 Lithuanians out of 140,890)
1917 census - 2,1% (2,909 Lithuanians out of 138,787)
1931 census - 0,8% (1,579 Lithuanians out of 195,021)

1959 census - 33,6% (79,400 Lithuanians out of 236,100)
2001 census - 57,5% (318,510 Lithuanians out of 553,904)
2011 census - 63,2% (331,500 Lithuanians out of 524,566)

By comparison number of Poles (and this still without counting Polish-speaking Jews / believers of Judaism) in Wilno (Vilnius):

1910 census - 97,800 Poles (plus 75,500 Jews, of whom many Polish-speaking ones)
1916 census - 70,629 Poles (plus 61,265 Jews, of whom many Polish-speaking)
1917 census - 74,466 Poles (plus 57,516 Jews, of whom many Polish-speaking)
1923 census - 100,830 Poles (plus 55,437 Jews, of whom many Polish-speaking)
1931 census - 128,628 Poles (plus 54,606 Jews, of whom many Polish-speaking)

1959 census - 47,200 Poles (plus 16,400 Jews)
2001 census - 104,446 Poles (plus 2,770 Jews)
2011 census - 85,816 Poles (no Jews reported)

In the countryside and towns of the Wilno Region (Wileńszczyzna) it was not much better for Lithuanians, and still isn't.

Poles are still majority in that region of Lithuania today (areas around Vilnius), despite westward deportations of many Poles after 1945.

Unfortunately, Poles in Lithuania are being discriminated by Lithuanian nationalists and Lithuanian authorities try to forcefully Lithuanize them:


Link to video.

Lithuanian nationalism is obsessed about language, which is only discouraging ethnic Polish minority from becoming loyal citizens of Lithuania:

In modern Lithuania they have the State Language Police (sic!) since 1995:


Link to video.

Lithuanian anti-Polish nationalists removing all double-language Lithuanian-Polish inscriptions:


Link to video.

From article "Hysteria of Both Nations - why do Lithuanians dislike Poles, and inversely. And what can we do to change this":

(...) In Polish language Tomasz is named Tomasz and that's how they call him at home, but in Lithuanian identity card his name is written down as "Tomas". That's because Poles in Lithuania must write down their names and surnames in a Lithuanian way. This is required not only by the Lithuanian state, also by Lithuanian ortography. Here even Lenin is Leninas, and George Walker Bush is Džordžas Volkeris Bušas - and there are no excuses to write differently. Harry Potter is Haris Poteris, James Bond is Džeimsas Bondas, and Arnold Schwarzenegger: Arnoldas Švarcenegeris. Local ethnic Poles, however, do think, that in their own land - after all, they live here since many generations - they have a right to write down in their identity cards their own surnames, and they are demanding to grant them this right: Jan Kowalski wants be Jan Kowalski, not Jonas Kovalskis.

The more ethnic Poles demand to be allowed this right, the bigger is suspicion and aversion of Lithuanians towards Polish minority in Lithuania. The Cold War between communities of Lithuanian Poles and ethnic Lithuanians is in progress for a long time, and recently it contributed to the worse within the entire European Union international relations. Research of public opinion carried out by Delfi.lt indicate, that Poles are the most disliked ethnic minority in Lithuania. We even managed to surpass Russians in this constest, who were traditionally the most disliked minority in Lithuania until relatively recently.

Tomasz, a Lithuanian Pole, is well over 20 years old and has enough of Polish-Lithuanian animosity:

- I feel good in this country. I don't want to emigrate and have no intention to raven each other with Lithuanians.

(...)

As you can see, Lithuanian nationalism is really obsessed with their language...

 

[TheLastOne36]

As you can see, Lithuanian nationalism is really obsessed with their language...

Why is this surprising? The entire Lithuanian National Revival is founded on the status of the Samogitian language in the late 19th century. Everything about Lithuanian nationalism originates from that revival.

 

[AdamCrock]

..........

 

[Domen]

Indeed. Had their nationalism been based on historical ties rather than linguistic ties, maybe Polish population in Southern Lithuania would be eager to remain in Lithuania. But since their nationalism was based on obsession with their language, Poles from the Wilno Region - and from the city of Wilno itself - wanted to join Poland (at first establishing the Republic of Central Lithuania, later announcing that they want their republic to become part of Poland).

It seems, that Lithuanian nationalists have not learned anything, and they are still persecuting people just for speaking a different language...

 

[TheLastOne36]

What historic ties?

The language is all they have to cling too, besides the historical revisionism of claiming the history of the Grand-Duchy of Lithuania as their own.

 

[Aleksey_aka_al]

Do not worry, they know what they're doing:

In 1990, soon after Lithuania re-established its independence from the Soviet Union, Grybauskaitė continued her studies at the School of Foreign Service at Georgetown University, Washington DC, in the Special Programme for senior executives.

Spoiler :

You see

 

[Domen]

Do not worry, they know what they're doing:

Spoiler :

You see

They have "traditions" to follow:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ponary_massacre#Massacre

Perpetrators: German SS Einsatzgruppe and Lithuanian Nazi collaborators

(...) Mass killings, often aided by Lithuanian volunteers from Ypatingasis burys,[11] took place throughout the summer and fall.[6] In September, the Vilna Ghetto was established.[11] By the end of the year, about 21,700 Jews had been killed at Paneriai.[11] The pace of killings slowed in 1942, as slave workers were appropriated by Wehrmacht.[11] The total number of victims by the end of 1944 was between 70,000 and 100,000. According to post-war exhumation by the forces of Soviet 2nd Belorussian Front the majority (50,000–70,000) of the victims were Polish and Lithuanian Jews from nearby Polish and Lithuanian cities, while the rest were primarily Poles (about 20,000) and Russians (about 8,000).[2][3] The Polish victims were mostly members of Polish intelligentsia (teachers, professors of Stefan Batory University like Kazimierz Pelczar, priests like Romuald Świrkowski) and members of Armia Krajowa resistance movement.[3][8] Among the first victims were approximately 7,500 Soviet POWs shot in 1941 soon after Operation Barbarossa begun.[5] At later stages there were also smaller numbers of victims of other nationalities, including local Russians, Romani and Lithuanians (...)

 

[AdamCrock]

Do not worry, they know what they're doing:

Spoiler :

You see

Wow ! 30 ! different guys there and we cannot still make a head or tails of what You are trying to say. You are a master !

 

[Oruc]

If the Polish in Lithuania are anything like the ones in cfc is it any wonder they are being treat badly?

 

[Domen]

"If the Jews in Russia are anything like the ones in Germany is it any wonder we are treating them badly?"

- Adolf Hitler

 

[Oruc]

"If the Jews in Russia are anything like the ones in Germany is it any wonder we are treating them badly?"

- Adolf Hitler

Did he actually say that? Because when I had a false quote in my sig as a joke I got a warning for it and was forced to remove it or I would've been banned, so citation needed.

 

[Domen]

Lithuanians feel like peasants persecuted by Polish landlords (this is the stereotype of Polish-Lithuanian relations there in Lithuania):


Link to video.

Maybe this is why they persecute the Poles in their own country. They "persecute because they are afraid of being persecuted":

Spoiler :

Link to video.

 

[NovaKart]

Wow ! 30 ! different guys there and we cannot still make a head or tails of what You are trying to say. You are a master !

I thought he was alleging it was an American conspiracy but the photos don't really correspond with that.

 

[Phrossack]

You know, this complaint against nationalism might be taken more seriously if it weren't being made by a diehard nationalist.

And I'll reiterate that Žemaitijans are Lithuanians, but Lithuanians aren't necessarily Žemaitijan. They have always spoken different dialects, have somewhat different cultures, and Žemaitija has a long history of relative independence. It's not like Aukštaitijans and Dzūkijans were all good honest glorious Poles until some Žemaitijan nationalists turned them into dirty non-Polish Balts.

 

[TheLastOne36]

You know, this complaint against nationalism might be taken more seriously if it weren't being made by a diehard nationalist.

And I'll reiterate that Žemaitijans are Lithuanians, but Lithuanians aren't necessarily Žemaitijan. They have always spoken different dialects, have somewhat different cultures, and Žemaitija has a long history of relative independence. It's not like Aukštaitijans and Dzūkijans were all good honest glorious Poles until some Žemaitijan nationalists turned them into dirty non-Polish Balts.

Indeed, earlier when I mentioned Samogitians in the Lithuanian national revival, I also meant Aukstaitijans and Sudovians.

I'm skeptical at how prominent Dzukijans were. That area of Vilna and Lida was thoroughly Slavic(+Yiddish) speaking up until WWII.

 

[ywhtptgtfo]

Indeed. Had their nationalism been based on historical ties rather than linguistic ties, maybe Polish population in Southern Lithuania would be eager to remain in Lithuania. But since their nationalism was based on obsession with their language, Poles from the Wilno Region - and from the city of Wilno itself - wanted to join Poland (at first establishing the Republic of Central Lithuania, later announcing that they want their republic to become part of Poland).

It seems, that Lithuanian nationalists have not learned anything, and they are still persecuting people just for speaking a different language...

Let's make Lithuania the second Ukraine and occupy the Wilno airport

 

[Domen]

if it weren't being made by a diehard nationalist.

I'm - if anything - a civic nationalist of my country, just like most people on this forum, not a racist nationalist like these Lithuanian guys.

BTW - you call me like this because you are a diehard pro-Lithuanian guy, as I have learned already from other threads.

You will defend this small "innocent", "defenceless" Baltic nation on every occasion, even if all evidence prove that they are not so "innocent".

You were even spreading Soviet-style propaganda, that Poles in Lithuania were "recent immigrants", not communities who lived there for centuries.

Let's make Lithuania the second Ukraine and occupy the Wilno airport

Wilno City has now Lithuanian majority, but in Wilno District Poles are still majority despite years of ethnic cleansing, deportations and forced Lithuanization:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vilnius_District_Municipality

As of 2011 Census, Poles amount to 52.07% out of 95,348 inhabitants. 32.47% are Lithuanians, 8.01% Russians, 4.17% Belorussians, 0.65% Ukrainians and 0.11% Jews.[1]

Poles are still majority of population (and in this case they are vast majority) also in Sołeczniki District:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Šalčininkai_District_Municipality

In this district some 31,500 out of some 39,400 people are Poles:

31,223 or over 80% (2001 census) of the population claiming Polish ethnicity.[1]

By comparison below is a map showing which parts of modern Lithuania were parts of Poland before WW2:

V.C. = Vilnius County
U.C. = Utena County
A.C. = Alytus County

Parts of these three counties belonged to Poland before WW2:

In some parts of Belarus, Poles are also majority today - despite mass deportations of Poles from Belarus after WW2:

Woronów Raion - 25,200 Poles out of 30,300 people (83,2%)
Szczuczyn Raion - 28,900 Poles out of 54,400 people (53,1%)
Lida Raion - 68,700 Poles out of 135,100 people (50,9%)
Grodno Raion - 21,800 Poles out of 54,300 people (40,1%)
Wołkowysk Raion - 21,200 Poles out of 75,100 people (28,2%)
Brzostowica Raion - 4,300 Poles out of 18,000 people (23,9%)
Świsłocz Raion - 4,100 Poles out of 19,500 people (21%)
Mosty Raion - 8,800 Poles out of 41,000 people (21,5%)

Total in these regions above: 183,000 Poles out of 427,700 people (43%)

In addition to this, Poles are also a large percent in the city of Grodno:

Grodno City - 65,500 Poles out of 327,500 people (20%)

Here a map showing these areas listed above:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plik:Grodno_Oblast,_Polish_Names.png

==============================================

Polish population in Belarussian-Lithuanian-Latvian borderland today:

 

[useless]

Basically you want to take even more land from these countries

 

[Thlayli]

As long as Poland gives Germany back the land it controlled before WWII I think this is a fair trade.

Don't forget East Prussia!

 

[TheLastOne36]

Huh. That last map explains why in religion maps the Dinaburg region of Latvia is portrayed as Catholic. Always thought that to be odd.