EU3-Style Civics: Good idea or bad?

[MrAdam]

I tried to make each of the civic classes independent of one another. Your economic policy might make people happier, but it will make some people unhappier as well. In general, as long as it isn't extreme, this balances out.

True. I'm sure a mixed economy would piss off alot of Americans. I guess it depends on the culture

I'm sure I had a reason a few weeks ago, but I've forgotten it. Removed.

Hahaha. I do that all the time.

For all Practical purposes, it does. Switching from Written Tradition to Religious Training will decrease science by 5%. Plus, Religious training is better than none at all, imo.

Oh. You're right. I didn't catch that.

Oh, another thing. If you looked at my civic-overhaul list, you might notice that my Ideologies are missing. That i because I was planning on having it so the civics you choose added a new modifier that decided your ideologies (like the political compass) and gave you an extra +/- modifiers based on your ideology. I'll do that if I can ever get Civic Attitude Modifiers to work.

And I'll be f5ing the forums every day till then

 

[DavidB1111]

The better solution would be for Communist to have "No State Religion." That way, the only two logical Religious Civics for Communist would be "Atheist" and "Secular," which would represent two different ways Communist regimes would hand churchs (either dismantling (Atheist) or separating them from the civic sphere and ignoring them (Secular)).

As I stated in the other thread, that's not technically how "real" communism works.
Now, I would imagine there's a little less religion among the masses, but a religious communist society would not technically be impossible.

True Communism = No corruption.
No Corruption does not equal no religion.

 

[Supercheese]

True Communism = No corruption.
No Corruption does not equal no religion.

However, there will never be no corruption in a society -- human nature is, unfortunately, unavoidable, especially on such a large scale as an entire Civilization.

 

[Ilegal]

There was a society with no corruption: Primitive Communist , and there will be a society with no corruption again: Communist .

"Human nature" is not a thing which will be never changed, its depent on the society being. Men's nature is belong to consciousness category, and society being is belong to material category. Material decides consciousness, so human nature is decided by society beings ).

Many people said about "human nature", and this "human nature" is nature of men who in society has private property, there are some expression of "human nature" in their opinion: greed, egoistic, ...

Oh, and about the corruption, its the disease of all state which use bureaucracy system, and the officer, who is elected to get a possition in gorvernment, takes unfair advantage to serve his individual profits.

 

[Govalon]

I mean, who's ever heard of a liberal theocracy?

There is this one country that is supposed to be land of the free. You can't hold a public office in many states if you are atheist. You can't join in the government funded boy scouts if you don't believe in god. Their motto is "In God we trust" and that is written even in their money.
Also, there is this Pledge of Allegiance. The Pledge is predominantly sworn by children in public schools. Congressional sessions open with the swearing of the Pledge, as do government meetings at local levels, meetings held by the Boy Scouts, and some sporting events.

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

If president candidate states that he/she doesn't believe in god, there is no way that he/she could win the elections. They have these weird blue laws that basically doesn't let people do or buy certain things at the certain days of the week because of religion.

That sounds pretty theocratic to me.

 

[Iceciro]

But you're allowed to believe in mutliple religions, or none at all, and still handle many things. The reason you cannot in some cases hold public office by being atheist is because the majority of the voters for that office will not accept you if you are atheist. This varies from place to place based on that makeup. That's enforced by the Democracy, not a Theocracy - the big failing of pure democracy is that the majority is not always correct.

Also, the States allow many religions, not just one. The "under god" bits were written rather recently to separate us from the "godless commies" back in the propaganda war, and we'll probably get it pulled soon (we do a little better every try.)

The Boy Scouts lose funding from various places every year, due to their pure intolerant policies of admittance. You can be a member of the (PURELY) state funded Police Department and be atheist. Sorry, but your argument holds no water, Govalon. And that's enough feeding the trolls for me this morning.

-An Atheist, living in the Deep South in the USA.

 

[os79]

But you're allowed to believe in mutliple religions, or none at all, and still handle many things. The reason you cannot in some cases hold public office by being atheist is because the majority of the voters for that office will not accept you if you are atheist. This varies from place to place based on that makeup. That's enforced by the Democracy, not a Theocracy - the big failing of pure democracy is that the majority is not always correct.

Also, the States allow many religions, not just one. The "under god" bits were written rather recently to separate us from the "godless commies" back in the propaganda war, and we'll probably get it pulled soon (we do a little better every try.)

The Boy Scouts lose funding from various places every year, due to their pure intolerant policies of admittance. You can be a member of the (PURELY) state funded Police Department and be atheist. Sorry, but your argument holds no water, Govalon. And that's enough feeding the trolls for me this morning.

-An Atheist, living in the Deep South in the USA.

Off-topic but AMEN!

-Atheist living in DC attending Gallaudet University.

 

[MrAdam]

The better solution would be for Communist to have "No State Religion." That way, the only two logical Religious Civics for Communist would be "Atheist" and "Secular," which would represent two different ways Communist regimes would hand churchs (either dismantling (Atheist) or separating them from the civic sphere and ignoring them (Secular)).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_communism
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_communism

 

[DavidB1111]

True Communism = No corruption.
No Corruption does not equal no religion.
However, there will never be no corruption in a society -- human nature is, unfortunately, unavoidable, especially on such a large scale as an entire Civilization.

True communism of course in this case means we're all not corrupt, regardless of Human nature.

I understand your point, mind you, but I'm simply saying it's still possible for true communism to be done. And adding it to this mod would be interesting, and a nice homage to Civ 2.

They have these weird blue laws that basically doesn't let people do or buy certain things at the certain days of the week because of religion.

What the heck is a blue law?
Never heard of them. I heard of the whole can't buy beer on a Sunday before 1:00 or something. But never have I heard of a can't let people do or buy certain things on a day because of religion.

Not how America Works...

Sorry, but your argument holds no water, Govalon. And that's enough feeding the trolls for me this morning.

Sorry, but you shouldn't call people trolls unless they are obvious. Govalon is not an obvious troll.
so, No, Iceciro, you are the demons.
And then Iceciro was a zombie.

 

[datlowen]

I heard of the whole can't buy beer on a Sunday before 1:00 or something.

You have just described a blue law.

 

[Afforess]

You guys are WAYY offtopic. This isn't even remotely related to civics. Can we turn back the discussion to civic discussion?

I have a question for you all, if you can have one NEW modifier for civics, what would it be? (For Example: An existing modifier is happiness in largest cities, a new one would be like bonus production to specific units or extra commerce civics.)

 

[Jabarto]

Happiness in ALL cities. I can't tell you how much I hate not having that.

 

[Afforess]

Happiness in ALL cities. I can't tell you how much I hate not having that.

That's easy to do. I don't know why Firaxis didn't do that...

In Addition to that, what else?

 

[MrAdam]

More moves on roads for transportation ministry .
Civics that allow trading with foreign countries spreading culture

Ability to declare a state of emergency/martial law, like if someone declares war on you and you're caught with your pants down, you switch to that civic with only 1 turn of anarchy and can draft units/suppress unhappiness but long term will lead to rebellion without a strong military presence. Although this probably falls under new civic rather than civic feature

 

[Iceciro]

Ability for civics to touch the Inflation rate - raising it faster, lowering it, making it not raise anymore, and giving you discounts to it.
Communism, for example could stand to be:
-60% gold generated
Inflation Does Not Rise
-90% effect from existing inflation.

Barter is especially pointless for this. What, are two goats now really only worth one goat?

 

[Afforess]

More moves on roads for transportation ministry .

Good idea. I can do this too, pretty easily.

Civics that allow trading with foreign countries spreading culture

Could you elaborate on what you mean? I'm not sure I understand.

Ability to declare a state of emergency/martial law, like if someone declares war on you and you're caught with your pants down, you switch to that civic with only 1 turn of anarchy and can draft units/suppress unhappiness but long term will lead to rebellion without a strong military presence. Although this probably falls under new civic rather than civic feature

Check out the Department (or Ministry) of Homeland Security I wrote up. I think it's what you want.

Department of Homeland Security:

• None (Available at Start)
  • No Upkeep
  
  
• Border Patrols (Requires: Military Tradition)
  
  • Medium Upkeep
  • +10% Espionage
  • +1 Happiness in largest cities
  • +35% Distance Costs

• Martial Law (Requires: Fascism)
  
  • High Upkeep
  • -25% Commerce
  • -25% Culture
  • +30% Espionage
  • +1 Happiness from Troops
  • +50% Maintenance Costs
  • +2 Support cost for each Military unit
  • Population is less rebellious locally, more rebellious, nationally.
  
  
• Pervasive Security (Requires: Computer Network)
  • Astronomical Upkeep
  • +40% Espionage
  • Specialists Generate 1 extra espionage
  • -2 Happiness in largest cities
  • +75% City Maintenance
  • Population is much less rebellious

Ability for civics to touch the Inflation rate - raising it faster, lowering it, making it not raise anymore, and giving you discounts to it.
Communism, for example could stand to be:
-60% gold generated
Inflation Does Not Rise
-90% effect from existing inflation.

Barter is especially pointless for this. What, are two goats now really only worth one goat?

Inflation. Hmm. That a good idea. However, lowering the inflation by 90% would be akin to raising commerce intake by about 90%, a little extreme. But It should be easy enough to halt inflation.

Here's what I have so far:

• (un)Happiness in all cities
• Movement Costs
• Stop Inflation

Any others? Also, please list which civics you think they would work best with.

 

[MrAdam]

Could you elaborate on what you mean? I'm not sure I understand.

Like since there's people who come to Canada from Japan, so despite our countries being pretty far from each other there's a fair bit of Japanese culture here. And I'm thinking that countries with alot of each other's culture should get a relationship boost (unless of course one country is intolerant of the other)

Check out the Department (or Ministry) of Homeland Security I wrote up. I think it's what you want.

Martial law doesn't allow drafting units though. And it doesn't prevent those unhappy citizens from working (which I think all totalitarian governments should do until they are toppled)

 

[Afforess]

Like since there's people who come to Canada from Japan, so despite our countries being pretty far from each other there's a fair bit of Japanese culture here. And I'm thinking that countries with alot of each other's culture should get a relationship boost (unless of course one country is intolerant of the other)

That's more of a passive thing than having to do with civics. I'm not sure how to implement it though...

Martial law doesn't allow drafting units though. And it doesn't prevent those unhappy citizens from working (which I think all totalitarian governments should do until they are toppled)

Well, why didn't you say so! I'll add drafting right away. However, I'm not sure I follow your second sentence, you used a triple negative... "It doesn't prevent those unhappy citizens from working..." Do you mean " It should allow unhappy citizens to still produce"?

 

[Jabarto]

This is kind of a tengential question, but this entire thread is pretty much a tangent by now so what the hey.

I'm working on my own mod, which I mentioned before in the civics thread back in July, and I'm planning on scrapping the corporatist civic in favor of an earlier economic civic to compete with slavery. Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[Freakwave]

This is kind of a tengential question, but this entire thread is pretty much a tangent by now so what the hey.

I'm working on my own mod, which I mentioned before in the civics thread back in July, and I'm planning on scrapping the corporatist civic in favor of an earlier economic civic to compete with slavery. Does anyone have any ideas?

In other words the initial idea you posted in the first post is off?