EUI and creating an alternative for VP

[Strigvir]

Ctrl+click puts the item at the top of building order.

 

[Xony]

A small thing I really like about EUI are the Tech Enhancement icons in the Tech tree. Whoward created his own take on it here, but I like the icons of EUI better.

What I also really like are Thal's FlagPromotions. I think EUI has its own version of it (don't normally use EUI).

 

[tu_79]

I realized the clock is in EUI by default. I installed it when I used only vanilla UI and it has remained.

 

[Enrico Swagolo]

Ctrl+click puts the item at the top of building order.

THANKS, that was very useful. I didn't know that and it's been helpful in my last game where I really wanted that Wall built.

 

[Txurce]

I want to agree with funak on this one. If the goal is to create a 3rd UI that VP supports, go for it.

But eui has a lot of popular support for players in this mod and that play generally. G has spent a lot of time to integrate it into the mod. The idea of building a UI to replace eui is a recipe for disaster.

Really this is a whole new project. This is nothing about gameplay and balance, UI is an entirely different beast. Don't throw out a lot of good work, work that has popular community support, because of that glint of a dream you can make something better.

I'm in sync with these two gentlemen. By all means, give this a shot. But the discussion to have it replace EUI should be postponed until your product has been thoroughly tested by the community, and then only if approved by a large majority.

 

[Iamblichos]

Fellas,
This is a feeler post just to see where the community is at with EUI. I've not begun work on it yet because I don't know "what" I would need to tackle first. That input I need from you, and to even begin it. Can I do it? Yeah I can do it. I understand the functions it calls from the DLL and where they are and how they work and what they are for. The process would be done in stages.

The main advantage here that drives me is streamlining the interface and most importantly control. We have no control over EUI and it is more or less off limits from mod-modding. So instead of having a complete package that is fully under our power, it really limits what we can do interface wise as well as fixing.

The other idea I've had is just replace the vanilla interface with a VP UI interface and let the community decide which one fits their fancy.

 

[balthazaar]

imo EUI has been around for so long now and has so much work behind it that a change would be unnecessary. That being said I'm not tied to EUI. If your creation was as streamlined and useful then I'd have no problem with a change.

Btw, 6 is just around the corner so there's going to be a huge drop-off in interest
Maybe you're better off putting your time and effort into a UI for that so by the time Gazebo starts creating the 6 Voxpopuli you will have your UI streamlined and advanced.

 

[heinous_hat]

I find that a discrete collection of whoward's UI mods provide all of the information conveyed by EUI's main screen elements, but without the visual clutter.

-Trade Opportunities
-City Production
-Improved City Banner
-Summaries - Great People, Luxuries, City States
-Diary

A few could use some work for optimal play with VP, but I feel they're a great starting point towards a comprehensive UI package. They already do many things well and are generally maintenance free.


Some notes and ideas...

- Improved City Banner requires a simple merge with VP's cityBannerManager.
- City Production could use a one-click entry point (it's currently in the drop down list).
- City Production could use a column or tooltip for happiness breakdown
- Trade Opportunities could use a rework to widen the table for More Luxuries
- Trade Opportunities could use strategic resource columns
- Summary - Great People needs an entry for Diplomats
- Diary could be rigged to show #turns til VP's multitude of milestone bonuses


That leaves a few things unaddressed, like better plot tooltips and build queue. With extra effort being put into the pedia, I'm not sure the tooltips are entirely necessary. They're informative for sure and they do sort of teach you the effects of tech and policy progression. I think they'd be better with some sort of alt-key functionality that shows the extended information... no fiddly timed release. The build queue from EUI is definitely a superior feature... if I could choose only one element from EUI, it would be that.

 

[Iamblichos]

imo EUI has been around for so long now and has so much work behind it that a change would be unnecessary. That being said I'm not tied to EUI. If your creation was as streamlined and useful then I'd have no problem with a change.

Btw, 6 is just around the corner so there's going to be a huge drop-off in interest
Maybe you're better off putting your time and effort into a UI for that so by the time Gazebo starts creating the 6 Voxpopuli you will have your UI streamlined and advanced.

If Gazebo decides to do a VP for civ 6, you can guarantee I'll be a part of the DLL code team from the beginning. I think that will be a ways off though until the civ community gets the SDK and get through the expansions.

 

[Gothic_Empire]

Fellas,
This is a feeler post just to see where the community is at with EUI. I've not begun work on it yet because I don't know "what" I would need to tackle first. That input I need from you, and to even begin it. Can I do it? Yeah I can do it. I understand the functions it calls from the DLL and where they are and how they work and what they are for. The process would be done in stages.

The main advantage here that drives me is streamlining the interface and most importantly control. We have no control over EUI and it is more or less off limits from mod-modding. So instead of having a complete package that is fully under our power, it really limits what we can do interface wise as well as fixing.

The other idea I've had is just replace the vanilla interface with a VP UI interface and let the community decide which one fits their fancy.

I'm completely on-board with this.

 

[ExpiredReign]

Fellas,
This is a feeler post just to see where the community is at with EUI. I've not begun work on it yet because I don't know "what" I would need to tackle first. That input I need from you, and to even begin it. Can I do it? Yeah I can do it. I understand the functions it calls from the DLL and where they are and how they work and what they are for. The process would be done in stages.

The main advantage here that drives me is streamlining the interface and most importantly control. We have no control over EUI and it is more or less off limits from mod-modding. So instead of having a complete package that is fully under our power, it really limits what we can do interface wise as well as fixing.

The other idea I've had is just replace the vanilla interface with a VP UI interface and let the community decide which one fits their fancy.

Absolutely! This is exactly the line of reason I have. Add to that @bc_1's weird view of what constitutes "his" work and making changes could be tricky. A large percentage of what EUI does I've seen done with a lot of mods, just not all in one package. Having said that the parts that are of his invention are really good, if a little confusing.

 

[mbbcam]

The one thing that truly exasperated me about the vanilla interface was suddenly being presented with an AI offering me a trade deal, at which point I would realise that I had no idea if I'd sold my last copy of something, or how many I had left of a commodity, and so forth, and absolutely NO chance of going and checking without turning down the deal, at which point they might buy from someone else. I use EUI just for that reason, and I wouldn't want to be without it for that reason. If that facility could be replicated, I'd be happy to change to another interface.

You should probably bear in mind that the dev of EUI has said on his thread that he is taking a break from Civ 5 and modding, so there probably won't be any further development or bug fixing.

 

[Funak]

If Gazebo decides to do a VP for civ 6, you can guarantee I'll be a part of the DLL code team from the beginning. I think that will be a ways off though until the civ community gets the SDK and get through the expansions.

Yeah It takes some time to realize what's actually wrong with a game as well and to realize what the devs aren't going to patch themselves.

 

[Wodhann]

Honestly VP is a thing for when the game is complete with all the expansions and such. Let the devs figure out what is wrong with their own game first and then after they say they won't change it anymore then the modding community can step in.

 

[tu_79]

I am surprised at how many UI mods already exists. But I am afraid to test so many different mods, not knowing if any of them can cause incompatibilities.

EUI is like the full desktop environment in any operating system, distributed as a package, with every part meant to go together. VPUI should focus on the same thing. Not only that every part of the interface is useful (or the most pleasant and useful we can agree on), but also that they seem to be designed to work together.

 

[ExpiredReign]

I am surprised at how many UI mods already exists. But I am afraid to test so many different mods, not knowing if any of them can cause incompatibilities.

EUI is like the full desktop environment in any operating system, distributed as a package, with every part meant to go together. VPUI should focus on the same thing. Not only that every part of the interface is useful (or the most pleasant and useful we can agree on), but also that they seem to be designed to work together.

If we are going for an acronym for this, I'd go for VUI, just drop the "P" from Vox Populi. that way we can call it: "viewy".

 

[Iamblichos]

I think there might be enough interest here to start work on this. I'm out of town at the moment but I think the first place to start will be getting the top panel right.

 

[Wodhann]

Just wondering, how much stuff can be "tucked away" with UIs? Can you make like dropdown menus and such?

 

[ExpiredReign]

Just wondering, how much stuff can be "tucked away" with UIs? Can you make like dropdown menus and such?

Yes. All the icons in the toppanel can have either dialogue windows or drop down style menus appear underneath. It's all a matter of style and choice.

 

[Wodhann]

Well, my opinion about UIs is that they shouldn't be invasive (which EUI definately is), they should should you the essencials and tuck away the details.

What you guys should decide is, what should be tucked away and what should be put out in the open.