Existence of the Divine

This is a huge claim. I'm not saying no religion has ever been like this as many are, but tons of religion for thousand of years were very heavy-handed about the objective truth. Basically any god-king is going to assert the objective truth of the land. The caste system of India wasn't optional depending on personal feelings. Aztecs were not making massive human sacrifices to understand themselves. Any place and time without religious freedom, which there are many, has a state enforced objective truth.

I suppose it's a semantic matter. What I'm saying is; there was no split between the objective/subjective - only in the case of a very few gifted (Greek) individuals, did the idea arise (and reshape itself with the rennaissance). Today we easily work with the idea that everything's subjective and the only objective truths are certain sciences, death and taxes. Our predecessors didn't live with this split in understanding, it was organic.

The only God-Kings we know of, are so ancient that we know nothing of how their religions shaped the ordinary human existence. So it's mostly a question of imagination to say anything about them. Even the Roman Emperor was a God-king who you had to sacrifice to, but we next to no idea how the cult itself actually took shape - except a few tidbits here and there, like the money changers in the Temple of Jerusalem.
 
Finding out what is true and what are workable solutions to problems is the domain of science. Ethics, morals and what to do with your life is the domain of religion. Both subjects shouldn't trespass on each other's domains, or trouble will ensue.

And yet, one of the greatest scientists of all time, Einstein, worked from the hypothesis that God had created the world and did not play dice with it. Funnily enough, chaos - or dice play - may be one of the fundamentals of reality. But that's too complex for me to understand... The point being, your statement above is a part of a movement of the objective/subjective separation, not necessarily any fundamental truth. What trouble can arise from religious people using science that hasn't already happened?
 
Finding out what is true and what are workable solutions to problems is the domain of science. Ethics, morals and what to do with your life is the domain of religion. Both subjects shouldn't trespass on each other's domains, or trouble will ensue.
I understand the notion. But I have to slightly disagree. As we explore the limits of Artificial Intelligence and our understanding of the physical functioning of the brain and body deeper, we are narrowing in on answering the question of 'is there a soul' and 'can we detect it, measure it, track it etc...' When these discoveries begin to unveil themselves, we are going to have a whole new understanding of consciousness, life, afterlife, etc... and it will be a scientific one that can possibly lead to answering much deeper questions still, such as if there is an existence of the Divine and what exactly that Divine is. At that point, religion and myth will be synonymous because we will no longer require faith to understand the things we turn to religion to explain. Ethics is already under study and constant debate and with the improved understandings mentioned, the debates will start to fade into agreements as we understand what, exactly, we are. Morals and what to do with your life will also be heavily influenced there.

Once we can put the doubting and faith aside we can finally then move forward into harmony. Yay science.
 
I suppose it's a semantic matter. What I'm saying is; there was no split between the objective/subjective - only in the case of a very few gifted (Greek) individuals, did the idea arise (and reshape itself with the rennaissance). Today we easily work with the idea that everything's subjective and the only objective truths are certain sciences, death and taxes. Our predecessors didn't live with this split in understanding, it was organic.
I think you are referencing the codification of the nature of truths. Objective truth as a concept clearly dominated most of human history. The human mind works by many assumptions to function and will naturally hold many things as objectively true.

Einstein, worked from the hypothesis that God had created the world and did not play dice with it. Funnily enough, chaos - or dice play - may be one of the fundamentals of reality.
Yes, Einstein was wrong about a lot of things. This is one of many reason why the over-referencing of the "God does not play dice" quote is highly ironic.
 
Once we can put the doubting and faith aside we can finally then move forward into harmony. Yay science.
There is still
  • the Uncertainty Principle
  • Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems
  • Rice's Theorem
  • the Halting Problem
Some of them are of course related to each other, but these four "problems" seem to place absolute limits on our understanding. Then there are the Laws of Thermodynamics which seem to place an absolute limit on our powers.

We will be able to move forward for quite some time to come, but some of those barriers I mentioned are probably harder to overcome than the speed-of-light barrier (Alcubierre). And unlike "limits" people of the past placed on science and technology, these are not gut feelings, but rather well proven (or tested) principles that cannot be overcome without taking quite a bit of science down with them. So I think there is some confinement, but we don't "see" it right now, because it's still far away.
 
Once we can put the doubting and faith aside we can finally then move forward into harmony. Yay science.

What's wrong with believing in both Science and God/Gods. I doubt if God Exists we would ever be able to comprehend it anyways and I personally believe there is a strong possibility "God" may be a Boltzmann brain type of enity in reality if it does exist. I dunno just what I think at least as I am a firm believer Science and Faith can co exist.
 
Once we can put the doubting and faith aside we can finally then move forward into harmony. Yay science.
Only half true, once we can put doubting aside yes, then Faith can arise and Then "we can finally then move forward into harmony". Yeah Faith! Which has Always been the Precursor to Science.
 
Science doesn't tell you what to do with your life. At best it can tell you the consequences of certain actions. The purpose of life is the realm of religion. N.B. Both Science and Religion are part of philosophy.
 
There is still
  • the Uncertainty Principle
  • Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems
  • Rice's Theorem
  • the Halting Problem
Some of them are of course related to each other, but these four "problems" seem to place absolute limits on our understanding. Then there are the Laws of Thermodynamics which seem to place an absolute limit on our powers.

We will be able to move forward for quite some time to come, but some of those barriers I mentioned are probably harder to overcome than the speed-of-light barrier (Alcubierre). And unlike "limits" people of the past placed on science and technology, these are not gut feelings, but rather well proven (or tested) principles that cannot be overcome without taking quite a bit of science down with them. So I think there is some confinement, but we don't "see" it right now, because it's still far away.
I can't say I know enough about these to comment.

What's wrong with believing in both Science and God/Gods. I doubt if God Exists we would ever be able to comprehend it anyways and I personally believe there is a strong possibility "God" may be a Boltzmann brain type of enity in reality if it does exist. I dunno just what I think at least as I am a firm believer Science and Faith can co exist.
They can but Faith is just a choice to believe something you know you have no evidence to believe and that can be finally put to rest with knowledge of a logical and confirmable explanation instead.

Only half true, once we can put doubting aside yes, then Faith can arise and Then "we can finally then move forward into harmony". Yeah Faith! Which has Always been the Precursor to Science.
What's the point of wasting your effort on a belief you cannot substantiate? Sure, keep it in mind as a possibility... the gut can tell us certain things. But it can also be wrong and one has to bear in mind that whenever they know they lean on a thought that has no proof or evidence. In fact, if you ARE leaning on such a belief, why? Why should it be important to maintain an unverifiable set of suspected facts as an absolute truth? All I can say is there are billions of people that believe one set of unverified information as fact that are contradicted by the beliefs of billions of other people who are equally relying on unverified statements from very difficult to substantiate ancient writings that amount to 'rumors of the ancient world' and the madness here is that people are willing to kill people over what those rumors claim. Or at least they often justify their worst actions that way.

Mind you, I'm not an Atheist saying this, but I feel living life according to faith is like purposefully blinding yourself. If you're right, then every step should be guided and you should never hit a wall... I've never seen this to hold up. I believe if a God exists, then the most effective worship of that God is to try your damnedest to understand everything you encounter to the deepest you can because it's all part of His creation and nobody is as exalted as the one who's works are analyzed and disseminated to get the full picture.

That said, I do understand that the idea of faith is sold to us by all religions as a divine test of your devotion. But since they ALL (mostly) say that, I'm not inclined to be that devoted to any one set of mythologies that claim to have all the answers but always come up without the core ones I'm really looking for anyhow.

Science doesn't tell you what to do with your life. At best it can tell you the consequences of certain actions. The purpose of life is the realm of religion. N.B. Both Science and Religion are part of philosophy.
Where does religion tell you what to DO with your life? I'm not sure I've ever encountered such instructions in any religious beliefs, just the things NOT to do mostly. I suppose there are some vague instructions, like go out and have as many kids as you can, in some biblical passages.

Again though, once you prove or disprove and fully put to rest the question of the afterlife scientifically, with observable, repeatable experimental proofs, these answers stop being subjective to religious guesswork (faith) and start becoming understood fact. At this point, there's no further split between the two. Even if the 'fact' comes down to an answer like, "it all depends on what you believe that guides what happens". (The current best observable conclusion I've been able to come up with so far.)
 
I can't say I know enough about these to comment.
The Uncertainty Principle limits our knowledge in physics: We can never know a particle's location and momentum with arbitrary precision, the product of both uncertainties has a lower bound. This is a problem if you want (at least in principle) to calculate a particle's trajectory in the future, to say nothing of the entire universe.

Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems limit our knowledge in Mathematics: Even a rather simple part of Mathematics like Arithmetics can never be completely proven without resorting to "outside knowledge", that is, knowledge outside of Arithmetics. What this means for Mathematics as a whole is not entirely clear.

Rice's Theorem limits our knowledge in Computer Science: All non-trivial, semantic properties of programs are undecidable. Non-trivial in this case rules out the properties "all programs" and "no programs". [Edit: Semantic properties are properties of meaning, something you infer from what is there.] You cannot construct an algorithm that "knows" a certain property and checks other algorithms for having that property. A special case of this is the Halting Problem, which I mentioned because it's much better known than the general case. Even a simple sounding property like "Is this algorithm a sorting algorithm" cannot be decided automatically. This is a severe limitation of Turing Machines in general, and a reason why some people think the human brain might not be one.

The Laws of Thermodynamics (especially the first and the second) mean that energy cannot be created out of nothing (so there should be an upper bound to energy available to us) and even the energy we have cannot be transformed into the form we need with 100% efficiency.

and the madness here is that people are willing to kill people over what those rumors claim
"There is nothing new under the sun." Sadly no people were ever kept from a killing spree because they lacked justification. The Terror of the French Revolution was committed in the name of virtue and reason. This is absolutely no reason (no pun intended) to abandon either.

Where does religion tell you what to DO with your life?
"Love thy neighbour as yourself." (Mark 12:31) to give a christian example. A jewish example would be "an eye for an eye", which was actually a limit for punishment and should be read "only an eye for an eye".
 
Where does religion tell you what to DO with your life? I'm not sure I've ever encountered such instructions in any religious beliefs, just the things NOT to do mostly. I suppose there are some vague instructions, like go out and have as many kids as you can, in some biblical passages.

Religions tell you what is morally right and what is morally wrong, and you're supposed to use that as guidelines in your life.

One problem is that most religions are quite old, which means their message may have become less compatible with modern life. Which may be one of the reasons for their decline in popularity.

The most recently developed religion is Scientology, and their system of ethics is therefore the most up-to-date with the modern world.

Because this system is complex, L.Ron Hubbard wanted his ideas to become more accessible so he wrote a set of 21 precepts called "The way to happiness".

While the Church of Scientology has serious issues (I don't recommend getting involved with that organization without knowing what you are doing), the Way to Happiness is well worth reading. Or watch the below youtube video list where every one of the 21 precepts is illustrated with a short video:
Code:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYM0fpUUXAg&index=2&list=PL1094AC235A2209DC

Edited because the forum altered my link.
 
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Religions tell you what is morally right and what is morally wrong, and you're supposed to use that as guidelines in your life.
While each gets down to answering certain moral quandaries in more detail that may vary from one to the next, the one thing nearly all of them share is, in their own differing words, do to others as you would have them do to you. (the Christian expression they call the 'Golden Rule'.)

Ultimately, it seems to pretty much come down to that, and I don't think we need a religion to tell us this, just an understanding that what we can either work together to selflessly make the world a better place for all of us or we can tear at each other in our competition to be above the next person and with every man for himself, the world becomes worse for everyone.

Why do we need a religion to tell us this? It's a pretty obvious fact if you take the slightest moment to consider it.

Outside of that and getting into the nitty gritty of moral instructions we start getting into the exact realm where religions cause us trouble, giving us reasons to hate and judge one another and again return to that competition to be better than the next person, not just financially, but morally as well. And we usually spend that moral currency on the right to absolve ourselves of the things we know we've done that did NOT follow the one law to make things better for all rather than just for self.

Again, however, once we know and understand the full consequences for the ongoing existence of the self beyond this life, we'll understand WHY religion gets into certain answers. And again, there science will eventually guide us away from patch over answers religion provides in the meantime.
 
The Uncertainty Principle limits our knowledge in physics: We can never know a particle's location and momentum with arbitrary precision, the product of both uncertainties has a lower bound. This is a problem if you want (at least in principle) to calculate a particle's trajectory in the future, to say nothing of the entire universe.
This is not a limitation but an understanding of the universe's physical engine of cause and effect and the role that absolute chaos plays in it. However, we may eventually learn that it is not chaos but the very realm that a creative intelligence works within to adjust the normally cause and effect naturally 'running' program of the universe whenever it sees fit.

Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems limit our knowledge in Mathematics: Even a rather simple part of Mathematics like Arithmetics can never be completely proven without resorting to "outside knowledge", that is, knowledge outside of Arithmetics. What this means for Mathematics as a whole is not entirely clear.
It sounds like they are basically saying that even the Divine would have to have a limit, in that mathematics is a natural structure of logic as opposed to a system that can even be created or manipulated - it IS and cannot be anything other than what it is without destruction of logical cause and effect based reality. Therefore, if the world IS actually rational, and not just temporarily so as some religions have argued (I'm referring to Aboriginal Dreamtime theory here) then mathematics is a hard fact and all acts of creation and intervention must operate within that structure of pre-existing fact. Eventually scientific observation should be able to confirm or deny this.

Rice's Theorem limits our knowledge in Computer Science: All non-trivial, semantic properties of programs are undecidable. Non-trivial in this case rules out the properties "all programs" and "no programs". [Edit: Semantic properties are properties of meaning, something you infer from what is there.] You cannot construct an algorithm that "knows" a certain property and checks other algorithms for having that property. A special case of this is the Halting Problem, which I mentioned because it's much better known than the general case. Even a simple sounding property like "Is this algorithm a sorting algorithm" cannot be decided automatically. This is a severe limitation of Turing Machines in general, and a reason why some people think the human brain might not be one.
I'll have to research this but I'm not really seeing how it's so impossible on an initial read-through of the concept at least. However, this comes across as relative to our current limits of understanding rather than forming an absolute wall that cannot be overcome or solved.

The Laws of Thermodynamics (especially the first and the second) mean that energy cannot be created out of nothing (so there should be an upper bound to energy available to us) and even the energy we have cannot be transformed into the form we need with 100% efficiency.
A full understanding and capturing of Zero Point Energy, I believe, will pretty much prove this to be just a 'usual' limitation and not a hard law.

Unified Field theory, I'd like to point out, would, if we achieve it, have us very close to, if not completely understanding whether there is a Divine or not and a lot regarding it's nature.

Sadly no people were ever kept from a killing spree because they lacked justification.
I see this the other way around. Nobody has ever been able to commit evil without doing a tremendous amount of mental gymnastics to enable them to bypass the boundaries of control that exist naturally inside their own minds. Justification has always been required, but we're all quite good at manufacturing these justifications when needed and more often than not religion becomes a tool by which we twist it's intent into enabling dark behavior rather than letting us help to create a reason not to. That's kinda the point of Genesis and the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil... that we are MORE likely to commit an act we know we shouldn't, simply because there's a prohibition, whether internal or external, against it. Thus if we are to move forward to learn about right and wrong, we must first understand that as we learn about it, wrong acts will become a natural draw for us to explore. A fairly good message for a beginning to a religious text that will attempt to tell you a perspective on right and wrong don't you think?


One problem is that most religions are quite old, which means their message may have become less compatible with modern life. Which may be one of the reasons for their decline in popularity.
This is exactly a reason that I have a problem with religion on principle. If it is TRUE, and the FAITH it asks of us to commit to it is to be completely rewarded, then should it not ONLY instruct us in a manner that can never be more or less compatible with modern life? Does it not suggest that some modern views of human rights and our developing views on morality in this regard, when conflicting with religion, are either WRONG or the religion is a farce in its absolute entirety? When asked to rely on Faith to believe something, I would think a perfect creator would have known about these emerging conflicts to come and have worked all that out... or perhaps the more likely answer is that a religion is just a system of public control and manipulation thought out by very very intelligent human beings that could never have predicted future scenarios that would erode the ability to maintain that blind faith thanks to paradoxes with emerging social understandings of right and wrong that come not from an ancient text but from a social collective realization of what is and what is not fair. Nothing in the Bible, for example, states that slavery is wrong directly, but we have certainly come to understand that if we are to adhere to the Golden Rule, it's pretty much a glaring violation.
 
I'd like to add that religion is also SHARED goals and values. Everybody trying to find out about the meaning of life on their own is fine but when it comes to changing the world, groups (assuming they are properly led) are in many situations more effective than individals doing their own thing. Cooperation requires shared goals. Shared values and agreed-upon facts lead to increased group cohesion and therefore easier cooperation.
 
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However, we may eventually learn that it is not chaos but the very realm that a creative intelligence works within to adjust the normally cause and effect naturally 'running' program of the universe whenever it sees fit.
Time itself (as a part of space-time) is a part of the universe, any outside entity (whatever that means) would be outside of time and thus lacking the means to change its mind. Unless we can explain some kind of "time outside of time" such an entity would lack a very important aspect of what it means to be creative.

mathematics is a natural structure of logic as opposed to a system that can even be created or manipulated - it IS
I wouldn't have a problem with that, but it also means that mathematics is built on sand and could - in principle - be refuted tomorrow.

this comes across as relative to our current limits of understanding rather than forming an absolute wall that cannot be overcome or solved
Right now it is pretty hard even to imagine what would be a "super-Turing-Machine" as long as you rule out violating causality (oracle machine: a turing machine with a black box where additional information is just given to the machine).

Zero Point Energy
Sorry, Zero Point Energy would increase the energy content of the universe, but it would still remain finite.

Justification has always been required, but we're all quite good at manufacturing these justifications when needed
Exactly. Unfortunately this "manufacturing" becomes very easy since even perceived wrongs are enough sometimes. And many worldviews were (ab)used to justify murder, not just religion, but also politics (examples galore just in the 20th century) and even virtue and reason (see above).

One problem is that most religions are quite old, which means their message may have become less compatible with modern life.
Only if their entire ethics is "set in stone", often because of the belief of "biblical inspiration" (or inspiration of another holy scripture). There are christian denominations that are based on biblical inspirations, but other denominations (like Roman Catholicism) consider the Bible to be a set of witness accounts, written by honest but erring humans.
 
Time itself (as a part of space-time) is a part of the universe, any outside entity (whatever that means) would be outside of time and thus lacking the means to change its mind. Unless we can explain some kind of "time outside of time" such an entity would lack a very important aspect of what it means to be creative.
I've always taken it as being 'outside the binding of time', in a state of existance where one is not physical and can rewind, fast forward, and adjust spacially wherever your perspective wishes to observe and influence. Much like working with an editor program on a 3d animator. It is not that there is not a passage of time for you, but rather you can always back up to a layer behind that layer of time you are acting in as you enact whatever change you wish upon the timeline you are observing.

I wouldn't have a problem with that, but it also means that mathematics is built on sand and could - in principle - be refuted tomorrow.
I don't think mathematics can be refuted. But mathematical process can always be interacted with in hard to imagine means. The concept of 1 thing cannot become anything but the concept of 1 thing but that 1 thing can become 2 or blink out and be 0. The concept of a void cannot change either. So the concept of something vs nothing is what all mathematical theorums stem from and this is pretty much not something any being needed to create or even could have. It just exists and all math stems from that binary fact. How things and voids interact may not be so solidly following any mathematical principal... imagination can easily eliminate cause and effect. But mathematics will always be and has always been an undeniable reality, neither created by a god nor destroyed by one... but rather the structure that allows any creation to exist. It's not built on anything but undeniable process.

Sorry, Zero Point Energy would increase the energy content of the universe, but it would still remain finite.
Assuming the universe itself is somehow finite or that the energy in it is somehow finite. Consider the possibility that 0 = infinity in a physics sense, that the void itself is a neverending source of energy as long as you can figure out how to convert that nothingness into somethingness, aka, undertake the act of creation on a very primal level. Mathematics defines 0 and 1 but it does NOT say anything about the possibility of converting 0 TO 1 (or some endless amount more) by some exercise of will or trick of physics. A void may be nothing more than an endless sea of potential.

Exactly. Unfortunately this "manufacturing" becomes very easy since even perceived wrongs are enough sometimes. And many worldviews were (ab)used to justify murder, not just religion, but also politics (examples galore just in the 20th century) and even virtue and reason (see above).
I agree that religion is only one means to that end and cannot be tremendously vilified for having suited such an application. But when you have Native blood and you know how that side of your entire heritage was nearly wiped out by men who believed, strongly, that it was their divine providence handed to them by Christ to kill your ancestors, you are left with a bad taste in your mouth for the capacity for religion to aid a group (as pointed out) of people to undertake a regimented systematic act of evil, in this case, the attempted genocide of an entire race of people.

Only if their entire ethics is "set in stone", often because of the belief of "biblical inspiration" (or inspiration of another holy scripture). There are christian denominations that are based on biblical inspirations, but other denominations (like Roman Catholicism) consider the Bible to be a set of witness accounts, written by honest but erring humans.
But then isn't the only thing that justifies the belief in the Bible the statements it contains where it claims to be the direct work of God? Any belief that denies these claims the book makes to be true can then willy nilly challenge any words written in the Bible as being potentially just a 'goof' or an obsoleted statement. If you take that about any of it, then doesn't the whole story pretty much fall apart and become just a vague reference to what might have taken place? In that case, what faith is necessary to take it as anything more than a collection of ancient tales and best determined practices at the time?
 
I've always taken it as being 'outside the binding of time', in a state of existance where one is not physical and can rewind, fast forward, and adjust spacially wherever your perspective wishes to observe and influence.
What does the "timeline" of that being look like? And how does that being experience rewinding, fast forwarding etc. if it is not bound in time. You compare this to some human experiences, but we are clearly bound in time.

The concept of a void cannot change either.
In another paragraph you speak about Zero Point Energy, which is based on the physical (read: quantum) vacuum, which is something completely different from a philosophical vacuum. It is most certainly not empty, and it constantly changes (pair creation and annihilation).

Consider the possibility that 0 = infinity in a physics sense
A point (circle with radius 0) is not a line (circle with radius infinity).

But when you have Native blood and you know how that side of your entire heritage was nearly wiped out by men who believed, strongly, that it was their divine providence handed to them by Christ to kill your ancestors
I cannot and I will not defend the actions of the conquestadors, but we must keep in mind that the largest part (90%) of this was done by diseases before the Mayflower even reached the "New World". It was unintentional, which I can say for certain because the Europeans had not built up organized structures in North America at this point, and they had absolutely no idea what would cause an epidemic. There is an interesting article on the (usually humor) site cracked: http://www.cracked.com/article_19864_6-ridiculous-lies-you-believe-about-founding-america.html - the European settlers found the Natives (almost) wiped out and the land developed; at this point it is enough if you believe in providence of any kind to conclude that you are superior.

Any belief that denies these claims the book makes to be true can then willy nilly challenge any words written in the Bible as being potentially just a 'goof' or an obsoleted statement.
Please note that I said "honest but erring". As a christian I believe that the writers don't lie whereas other historical sources (Roman Annals, Josephus etc.) are potentially better educated but might be less honest, so that is a start to combine the different fragments into a picture (including what we know today about science and history). The one thing I have to believe in order to be a christian is the Resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthian 15:14-19).
 
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What does the "timeline" of that being look like? And how does that being experience rewinding, fast forwarding etc. if it is not bound in time. You compare this to some human experiences, but we are clearly bound in time.
I would think such a being has its own localized timeline that can only measure its own experience. In short, it would be like being able to manipulate your place in time however you see fit. Of course, this would then demand an answer to the question of how time travel actually works, if there is one timeline where events can change and thus adjust the one future, or if there are also infinite timelines spreading off from any given moment along all lines of chaos potential. I tend to think of time in the latter sense. This is why Divine Intervention would rarely ever occur, because there's always both paths where things went well and where things didn't go so well from any point in time. So what's the point of manipulating experiences?
In another paragraph you speak about Zero Point Energy, which is based on the physical (read: quantum) vacuum, which is something completely different from a philosophical vacuum. It is most certainly not empty, and it constantly changes (pair creation and annihilation).
All subjective to endless theoretical possibility as far as I know. May be limited, may be unlimited, may be that our minds just always grapple with the idea of infinity when the infinite is the platform of reality and thus actually throwing off all assumptions we tend to have when you dig down to the core of existance. The spaces between spaces are a physical vacuum, where physically we find the 0 point, and it is potentially within that 0 point that you may harness and draw from unlimited potential. If we can find the creative force within or through the use of a technology, perhaps nothing is impossible.

A point (circle with radius 0) is not a line (circle with radius infinity).
A point does not have a radius, if you're talking about the truest 1 dimensional 'point'. As soon as it becomes paired to another point, you have a line. Consider the possible philosphical implications. This is to then say that all singular points in space have or take up NO space themselves. Yet they exist. Within that non-existant point, perhaps lie all points that are and reality collapses into a singular point from which a 'divine being' or divinely connected or illuminated or highly technological or whatever other means to compress reality has been found could possibly enter and pass through this point and come out the other side from any other place in time and space. Given time and space is infinite, then the 0 becomes the expression of infinity.

Just something to grapple with psychologically. We can simply SAY that it doesn't compute, but the computing side of the mind may not be equipped to handle the fundamental basis upon which reality is built.

I cannot and I will not defend the actions of the conquestadors
Great article. Quite amusing and informative. I suppose I was referring as much to Custer as anything or anyone else. It's a good point how weakened the native cultures had become just years before the successful landings and push to expand. Nevertheless, the resistance to mining and metallurgic development was also a big weakness in technology that did contribute a lot to the downfall. It wasn't like they couldn't or didn't understand the benefits... for some reason, call it veneration of the Earth as a living breathing mother soul, they generally chose not to. It was more important to nurture the Earth and they were masters of making it abundant... sounds like that was also a downfall because a good plague loves a strong population center to attack hard.

Please note that I said "honest but erring". As a christian I believe that the writers don't lie whereas other historical sources (Roman Annals, Josephus etc.) are potentially better educated but might be less honest, so that is a start to combine the different fragments into a picture (including what we know today about science and history). The one thing I have to believe in order to be a christian is the Resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthian 15:14-19).
I used to be pretty solid on that point too until I understood the material they cover in the movie 'Zeitgeist'. I strongly reccomend any stout Christian willing to have their faith put to the fullest test watch that movie. The breakdown of the Christ story is absolutely fascinating and to me really casts into great question whether the whole event was real in the way we'd think it to be real or just a story of symbolism and astrology. And if it's the latter, I'm not sure what to make of it exactly. I'm not saying Christians are wrong... there are some things I've experienced that validate a lot of the messages it brings to the world... I just think everyone, particularly Christians, should at least give some consideration to the information shared there.
 
I would think such a being has its own localized timeline that can only measure its own experience.
This is pretty much a "second dimension of time". This is not unproblematic at all and can lead to some strange things (you have no order relation on a plane, so the points in time are not ordered, that pretty much destroys causality as well as the concept of speed (no time differences), energy (is speed dependent), power (energy per time is certainly no longer well defined), etc.) and that is if you only have one such being, because for every additional being who can do this independently as well you add another dimension of time.

May be limited, may be unlimited
The bigger the Zero Point Energy, the bigger the chance we live in a "false vacuum" that could at any point in time spectacularly break down in the biggest natural disaster imaginable. One potential cause for the Big Bang was such a transition, in which case we can probably rule out living in a false vacuum. It is certainly not something we should hope for.

spaces between spaces
Why do I feel confused now?

A point does not have a radius, if you're talking about the truest 1 dimensional 'point'.
There is such a thing as a "degenerate circle", although I have to admit that definition is contested: http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/66132.html

As soon as it becomes paired to another point, you have a line.
If you mean "connected", you get a line segment. Lines have no beginning or end.

This is to then say that all singular points in space have or take up NO space themselves. Yet they exist.
Highly debated. The Planck length (roughly 1.6E-35 m) is believed to be the shortest possible length (cf. http://www.physlink.com/education/askexperts/ae281.cfm ).

Given time and space is infinite
That's another assumption.

call it veneration of the Earth as a living breathing mother soul, they generally chose not to
They also hunted the horses that lived in North America to extinction, which also didn't help them with the Europeans.

I strongly reccomend any stout Christian willing to have their faith put to the fullest test watch that movie.
I might be able to watch it some time, but I have already seen that there are some strong rebuttals as well. And usually being supported by David Icke is not a good thing.
 
Only if their entire ethics is "set in stone", often because of the belief of "biblical inspiration" (or inspiration of another holy scripture).

Just to add another dimention to this discussion, Orthodox Jews have managed to have both ways: One of the basic laws of Jewish Halacha (religious laws) is that the Bible was given by God to his people, and that from this point on the rules of men are more important than the Biblical rules on their own. The interpetation is better than scripture. There is even a story in the Talmud (written at around 500AD), one of the main books of Halacha, about a time where there was a debate between the religious leaders on an issue (Is some guy's oven is Kosher or not, if you must ask) and the Holy Spirit sided with the minority opinion. Even with this Divine intervention, they accepted the majority ruling, because Man's interpretation is stronger than the word of the Holy Spirit itself. But, in the 19th century they started implementing a law called "New is forbidden by the Torah", which meant that from now on they do not accept any more new interpretations, and only the old ways are to be observed. That's why the Ultra Orthodox Jews still dress the way they did when they lived in small towns in Eastern Europe 200 years ago, for example.

So, in a way, they managed to both change the basic religious laws completely, while making their new interpretations "set in stone".
 
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