Expansion... why does it work or not work?

[manu-fan]

Ok... read the link... got the basic "idea"... but, doesn't that mean that each individual city is not a stand alone?... here's what I mean:

- production is city specific, so, some cities (ie, lots of mines) will produce faster then others

- commerce and gold is civilization wide... so, one city operating with high commerce makes up for other cities

- food is city specific... so, by following the farm/resource guide, you know what else you can do

- but, generating Great People is dependent on food? That one I'm not getting...

From the guide:

Now that you know how to optimize your city's food ... let's look at the lone exception: The Great Person Farm. The sole purpose of the GP Farm is to generate a ton of Great Person points. One way to do that is to build wonders. But the other, easier way to do it is to have a ton of specialists. You can do that by having an extreme abundance of food.

Cheers.

 

[Cam_H]

^ Yep ... just further clarification ... a Specialist eats 2 but does not produce any food. Therefore in order to keep your city growing while employing lots of Specialists, you need the other citizens to work on food-heavy tiles (for instance; Corn Fields, Pig Pastures, Farmed Floodplains).

It is the fact that Specialists eat food but don't produce food (settled Great Merchants the exception) is why cities that have many Specialists also need some tiles that are worked that yield more than 2.

 

[val13]

^ Yep ... just further clarification ... a Specialist eats 2 but does not produce any food. Therefore in order to keep your city growing while employing lots of Specialists, you need the other citizens to work on food-heavy tiles (for instance; Corn Fields, Pig Pastures, Farmed Floodplains).

It is the fact that Specialists eat food but don't produce food (settled Great Merchants the exception) is why cities that have many Specialists also need some tiles that are worked that yield more than 2.

Ok...

Started another game, on Warlord, and took over a continent. I basically had to bum-rush 4 cities, build them up, then attack... while I was able to gain the advantage in the first continent, I am far behind the other continent's civ's.

But, I guess I didn't get the whole strategy right, some cities are just not doing anything well...

 

[Cam_H]

Perhaps post the game; and earlier save if possible, and the current save?

Now that you control the continent, start looking at developing your empire - specialise your cities, and use your unit pumps to keep your defenses at respectable levels. Once you're 'on your feet' in terms of technological competitiveness, then examine the benefit of inter-continental warfare. Consider 'lightbulbing' opportunities for your Great People.

 

[val13]

Perhaps post the game; and earlier save if possible, and the current save?

Now that you control the continent, start looking at developing your empire - specialise your cities, and use your unit pumps to keep your defenses at respectable levels. Once you're 'on your feet' in terms of technological competitiveness, then examine the benefit of inter-continental warfare. Consider 'lightbulbing' opportunities for your Great People.

How do you post saved games?

 

[Cam_H]

You can use the 'Upload' button - see the horizontal menu towards the the top of the page ... or 'Manage Attachments' (Attach Files) when posting with the 'Go Advanced' option.

 

[val13]

You can use the 'Upload' button - see the horizontal menu towards the the top of the page ... or 'Manage Attachments' (Attach Files) when posting with the 'Go Advanced' option.

Nevermind... with like 80 turns left in the game, my continent was invaded... with mech inf to my grenadiers and riflemen.

Will just start over...

I got "out-teched" BAD

 

[KMadCandy]

gah!!!!! first response lost, and i didn't copy/paste it even knowing that happens sometimes.

bottom line, there is quite a bit of re-learning/new tactics that has to happen as you go up in difficulty. i'm on that 'moving up in diff learning curve' myself. one thing i had to force myself to do is remember that having a fat stash of cash just plain isn't as important early on as i'm used to it being late game (when running US and upgrading promoted units). i don't go on the 60% rule as gospel, i'm getting better at not going into panicmode when i see myself at almost 0g. also i'm adjusting the slider every turn when need be. watching SG threads/ALC games has helped me there, seeing that strategy in action and not leading to disaster has helped me learn.

razing/pillaging can help with funds, even at barb cities when they pop up. tons of things to consider when debating razing/capturing a city, one in particular is how close other civs are, if you want the spot but just can't afford it yet ... are they near enough that they might resettle it before you do?

one thing i've noticed is that having a healthy treasury can actually be harmful once you or a rival learn currency. the more you have, the more they can demand or ask for in trades...ouch. so sometimes, counter to my initial logic, being poor is a benefit.

what happens when you actually do hit 0g but still have expenses? troops go on strike is what i've heard, but what does that mean? random troops disband? that could be ouchers!!!

 

[val13]

gah!!!!! first response lost, and i didn't copy/paste it even knowing that happens sometimes.

bottom line, there is quite a bit of re-learning/new tactics that has to happen as you go up in difficulty. i'm on that 'moving up in diff learning curve' myself. one thing i had to force myself to do is remember that having a fat stash of cash just plain isn't as important early on as i'm used to it being late game (when running US and upgrading promoted units). i don't go on the 60% rule as gospel, i'm getting better at not going into panicmode when i see myself at almost 0g. also i'm adjusting the slider every turn when need be. watching SG threads/ALC games has helped me there, seeing that strategy in action and not leading to disaster has helped me learn.

razing/pillaging can help with funds, even at barb cities when they pop up. tons of things to consider when debating razing/capturing a city, one in particular is how close other civs are, if you want the spot but just can't afford it yet ... are they near enough that they might resettle it before you do?

one thing i've noticed is that having a healthy treasury can actually be harmful once you or a rival learn currency. the more you have, the more they can demand or ask for in trades...ouch. so sometimes, counter to my initial logic, being poor is a benefit.

what happens when you actually do hit 0g but still have expenses? troops go on strike is what i've heard, but what does that mean? random troops disband? that could be ouchers!!!

That's ok... I started over... got 2 cities built before I got sandwiched between Roosevelt and Mansa...

My first capital was pure money maker with a few mines for production (yep, got the food thing right and all that.

My second city I placed to cut off the continent on the coast with 2 Ivory.

I researched copper, iron... FINALLY had a copper pop up in my fat square... by that time, Roosevelt had swordsmen stacks, and Mansa declared war on me...



EDIT: I hate this game!!!!

 

[KMadCandy]

FINALLY had a copper pop up in my fat square... by that time, Roosevelt had swordsmen stacks, and Mansa declared war on me...



EDIT: I hate this game!!!!

oh i understand. we've all been there. but keep chugging along, the victories you win after defeats are sweet!

 

[val13]

You can use the 'Upload' button - see the horizontal menu towards the the top of the page ... or 'Manage Attachments' (Attach Files) when posting with the 'Go Advanced' option.

ok... here is my latest

http://forums.civfanatics.com/uploads/107807/Owner_AD-1631.CivWarlordsSave

 

[cabert]

EDIT: I hate this game!!!!

you didn't play any previous versions, did you?
I'm not bashing you, i just want to understand where you keep failing.
cIV is a very complex game.
You will enjoy it a lot when you will be able to come with some deep strategic moves (then you will see that every game you play is different, that you need to play your strength, ...).

I suggest you read through a few SGs or detailed reports.
I learned a lot from reading GotM's spoilers.
If you want to learn the fast way, take a finished GotM, choose a good (=detailed) winning (you don't want to learn how to lose, do you?) spoiler, download the initial save, and try to do the exact same moves.
You probably won't manage it exactly the same way(no spoiler is THAT detailled) , but you will gain a very clear view on what moves to make.
I used hendrickzon's excellent spoilers for GotM 2 (prince level) that way. I never looked back on noble or below after that.

 

[val13]

you didn't play any previous versions, did you?
I'm not bashing you, i just want to understand where you keep failing.
cIV is a very complex game.
You will enjoy it a lot when you will be able to come with some deep strategic moves (then you will see that every game you play is different, that you need to play your strength, ...).

I suggest you read through a few SGs or detailed reports.
I learned a lot from reading GotM's spoilers.
If you want to learn the fast way, take a finished GotM, choose a good (=detailed) winning (you don't want to learn how to lose, do you?) spoiler, download the initial save, and try to do the exact same moves.
You probably won't manage it exactly the same way(no spoiler is THAT detailled) , but you will gain a very clear view on what moves to make.
I used hendrickzon's excellent spoilers for GotM 2 (prince level) that way. I never looked back on noble or below after that.

Considering a Knight just killed off my SAM Infantry... I mean.. WTH!

I do appreciate the suggestions, etc, but how do you "learn" that attacking with a 90%+ chance to win only gets you killed!

I just lost my capital to an inferior force...

EDIT: and yes, I've played earlier versions of CIV... CIV1 and 2 (skipped 3... too buggy)... I played an earlier game and 1 enemy Cavalry took out my Mech Infantry 1-on-1. This is RIDICULOUS!

 

[cabert]

you just learned that 90% isn't 100%

 

[Winston Hughes]

when I first start, I can usually get 3 cities built before I am surrounded by civs. But then, I get unhappy, unhealthy cities, so, I work to get those taken care of... by the time I do, I fall behind in defense/unit stack, someone declares war, and IF I survive, I am depleted to the point another civ declares war.

Are you using the whip? If not, then that's probably the solution to your problems. Unhappy citizens are often more or less inevitable in the early game if you don't sacrifice some of your population periodically. It is possible to keep your happiness levels up with buildings etc. But if that means leaving yourself open to attack, failing to expand your empire, or missing out on other useful buildings and infrastructure, then you'd be better off turning some of that into .

I apologise if I'm telling you something you already know, but it took me a while to realise that judicious use of slavery is often crucial to a successful game. Personally, I rarely bothered with the whip in civ3, preferring to gold-rush instead. But on civ4 I've become a regular slavedriver, and almost never gold-rush anything (since Universal Suffrage is such a context-specific civic, and provides no happiness bonus).

 

[val13]

Are you using the whip? If not, then that's probably the solution to your problems. Unhappy citizens are often more or less inevitable in the early game if you don't sacrifice some of your population periodically. It is possible to keep your happiness levels up with buildings etc. But if that means leaving yourself open to attack, failing to expand your empire, or missing out on other useful buildings and infrastructure, then you'd be better off turning some of that into .

I apologise if I'm telling you something you already know, but it took me a while to realise that judicious use of slavery is often crucial to a successful game. Personally, I rarely bothered with the whip in civ3, preferring to gold-rush instead. But on civ4 I've become a regular slavedriver, and almost never gold-rush anything (since Universal Suffrage is such a context-specific civic, and provides no happiness bonus).

Actually... I don't use slavery... when I looked in on it, it kills some of the population, but, early on, expansion of the city size is important to getting the cottages worked... so, don't use it... by later in the game, I'm more worried about production

 

[Winston Hughes]

Actually... I don't use slavery... when I looked in on it, it kills some of the population, but, early on, expansion of the city size is important to getting the cottages worked... so, don't use it... by later in the game, I'm more worried about production

Trust me. You want to be using slavery, and using it often. Getting your population up is important, but so is having enough troops to fend off your enemies.

What's more, you'll sometimes find that you can grow your population quicker, and make better use of it too, if you whip-rush the buildings needed for growth (lighthouses, granaries, happiness buildings such as temples and markets, health buildings such as harbours and grocers; which ones you choose depends on the situation).

You'll have to put your conscience on hold, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater good (oh no, now I sound like a politician...).

Edit: I nearly forgot: if you're under attack and you're going to lose a city, then whip out some defenders asap; it's better to lose a few citizens than to lose the whole city.

 

[val13]

Trust me. You want to be using slavery, and using it often. Getting your population up is important, but so is having enough troops to fend off your enemies.

What's more, you'll sometimes find that you can grow your population quicker, and make better use of it too, if you whip-rush the buildings needed for growth (lighthouses, granaries, happiness buildings such as temples and markets, health buildings such as harbours and grocers; which ones you choose depends on the situation).

You'll have to put your conscience on hold, but sometimes sacrifices have to be made for the greater good (oh no, now I sound like a politician...).

Edit: I nearly forgot: if you're under attack and you're going to lose a city, then whip out some defenders asap; it's better to lose a few citizens than to lose the whole city.

Ok... will try it...

Another question, this one on resources:

- If I link to a resource (say, one that gives a health bonus), does it only apply to that city, or every city? What of resources not in cities that I have linked?

 

[Winston Hughes]

- If I link to a resource (say, one that gives a health bonus), does it only apply to that city, or every city? What of resources not in cities that I have linked?

The bonus applies to every one of your cities that is connected (by roads, rivers and, once you've researched Sailing, coasts) to the resource. If the resource is connected to a city, but that city is not connected to others, then that city alone will get the bonus.

 

[Elandal]

The health and happiness bonuses (as well as any other bonuses the resource gives) apply to all cities connected to the trade network the resource is connected to. In some cases I find it better to get a resource from outside my cities workable areas, as I don't think eg. Winery is that good an improvement - I'll rather build a cottage, watermill, or something else on the tile if possible.

Note that the resources have two effects: added food / production / commerce on the tile and a globla effect of added health or happiness or strategic effect (most often ability to build some types of units, but may also speed wonder building, provide fuel for powerplants, and so on). The global effect is what you get in all cities, the F/P/C bonus only applies to the tile should it be worked.