Expansive abuse: Oracle Code of Laws fast GM

[vicawoo]

You can definitely lose it on immortal if they have the correct multipliers. I've tried a few games, and sometimes it goes pre-2000, and there's little you can do at that point. Unless you start with mysticism, I don't think it's possible to beat certain AI times.
If your start doesn't have non-forested hills, there's a high risk going BW will delay you too long techwise. Bronze working is probably highly unreliable.

I farmed the wine just to squeeze out some extra commerce earlier.

I don't think the settler delayed much, since you there's a period in which you can't build Oracle, and other than AH, there were no delays.

So
1. Steal underpants
2. ???
3. Oracle!

 

[DanielTorrence]

I don't think the settler delayed much, since you there's a period in which you can't build Oracle, and other than AH, there were no delays.

So
1. Steal underpants
2. ???
3. Oracle!

...when I tried to shadow, I did manage to get The Oracle, only to get overrun by the barbs! How did you survive that with only warriors? I saw you have neither BW nor archery by that time. Perhaps you can post some details to what you did between finishing the Oracle and your save this seems to where I struggled. Did you switch to Caste System right after you finished the Oracle? Where did you farm the Great Merchant, where did you build your next workers and settlers?
Hope its not too much effort to answer all these (noob?) questions. Thank you anyway for the nice write-up and the idea of advertising this approach on the game.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

i see 2 types of players here.

1. the gotm players, who wants to win the game with minimal risk. they dislike risks.
2. the hof players, who wants to max out the benefits who can afford some risks.

Well, I don't think Vicawoo was operating under HoF assumptions (HoF is a mess anyway right now, esp civ V). Obviously in HoF you're willing to take unusual risks and win with more game attempts; it's a basic premise of that format that arguably should be minimized.

In HoF you probably don't want to be doing this, you probably want to be abusing some super UU to capture land that ordinary civs couldn't manage.

 

[vicawoo]

...when I tried to shadow, I did manage to get The Oracle, only to get overrun by the barbs! How did you survive that with only warriors? I saw you have neither BW nor archery by that time. Perhaps you can post some details to what you did between finishing the Oracle and your save this seems to where I struggled. Did you switch to Caste System right after you finished the Oracle? Where did you farm the Great Merchant, where did you build your next workers and settlers?
Hope its not too much effort to answer all these (noob?) questions. Thank you anyway for the nice write-up and the idea of advertising this approach on the game.

I uploading too late of a save accidentally.

Barb archers are definitely a problem. You need to fogbust aggressively (especially the southwest corner, and plant 1-2 woodsman warriors on forested hills to attract barb archers.

 

[Keilah]

At what point do you research pottery for granaries and cottages? I assume this strat works best with plenty of cottages, running at 100% science enabled by the merchants.

 

[Lalabunny]

I tried a non-Oracle approach for comparison. Suprisingly the Oracle went off at 1000BC. I thought that was odd, so I tried again. Indeed on my 2nd and 3rd try it went off at 1020BS and 1000BC again respectivel. Is there any reason for this? Can the AI sense I'm beelining to Priesthood and think

"Oh he's gonna get the Oracle, Im gonna race him and screw him over."

 

[Amao]

it's just like not until you try to bypass a slow driver, the idiot won't realize he was too slow. then, he speeds up, making it harder for you to pass him. i was kidding. the oracle race is really random, 3 samples are not good enough.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I think it depends a lot on the AI's and how they start. For it to go early, you need a civ that researches priesthood and makes the decision to build it.

 

[Keilah]

it's just like not until you try to bypass a slow driver, the idiot won't realize he was too slow. then, he speeds up, making it harder for you to pass him. i was kidding. the oracle race is really random, 3 samples are not good enough.

Nobody gives vehicles and driving the respect they deserve. Those a dangerous hunks of metal we're zipping around with, and it's worth being a few minutes later for things if it reduces the chance that you kill an innocent person. Or yourself.

 

[Lalabunny]

Won Cultural Vic at 1820AD. I went with Oracle version.

Spoiler :

Oracle at 1800BC.

After seeing Isabella, I avoid using the missionary on Catherin. I need her to be Buddhist for the Diplo. Catherian got stuck with 6 cities and peace Vessal to Isabella.

Got 9 cities up with 3 religion (conf, buddh, tao). Lost Music to Hunya by 2 turns. He got it at 100AD ! I pop 2 GS instead for Edu bulb and Academy. Wanted to bulb Philo but Catherin got it before me. Anyhow she spread Taoism to me, so no biggie. Suprsingly I got Sistine Chapel before Hunya.

Theres a huge Girl vs Guys religious war (Cath + Izzy vs Hanni + Hunya). Lost Liberalism to Hunya at 925AD. Damn he's fast. No matter, self researched Nationalism.

Once again research up to Democracy and then stop all research. Rush buy all cultural buildings. Hunya is going for Cultural too. But between war and my Sistine/Pavilion, he was no match.

 

[almughavar]

Ha, I'm this strategy's big fan too. And I always get both the Stonehenge and the Oracle, morever founder of 3 late religion, too.

 

[Amao]

Nobody gives vehicles and driving the respect they deserve. Those a dangerous hunks of metal we're zipping around with, and it's worth being a few minutes later for things if it reduces the chance that you kill an innocent person. Or yourself.

OFFTOPIC: safe driving, can't agree more. following a slow driver, however, doesn't make you any safer.

 

[almughavar]

Won Cultural Vic at 1820AD. I went with Oracle version.

Spoiler :

Oracle at 1800BC.

After seeing Isabella, I avoid using the missionary on Catherin. I need her to be Buddhist for the Diplo. Catherian got stuck with 6 cities and peace Vessal to Isabella.

Got 9 cities up with 3 religion (conf, buddh, tao). Lost Music to Hunya by 2 turns. He got it at 100AD ! I pop 2 GS instead for Edu bulb and Academy. Suprsingly I got Sistine Chapel.

Theres a huge Girl vs Guys religious war (Cath + Izzy vs Hanni + Hunya). Lost Liberalism to Hunya at 925AD. Damn he's fast. No matter, self researched Nationalism.

Once again research up to Democracy and then stop all research. Rush buy all cultural buildings. Hunya is going for Cultural too. But between war and my Sistine/Pavilion, he was no match.

Didn't you found 3 religions? If don't have 6 catheral( 2 catheral/religion), combo with Broadway, Rock and Roll, Hollywood and sometimes the Sid Sushi Co, then how can you afford the task culture of 50000?
I follow that road and win at 1942( Prince difficulty).

 

[Lalabunny]

Didn't you found 3 religions? If don't have 6 catheral( 2 catheral/religion), combo with Broadway, Rock and Roll, Hollywood and sometimes the Sid Sushi Co, then how can you afford the task culture of 50000?
I follow that road and win at 1942( Prince difficulty).

Spoiler :

Found Confu. Isabella spread Buddhism, Catherin spread Taoism.

With Huanya in the game and given my land, I doubt I will be able beat AI to techs like Electricity and Radio let alone wonders. 9 Cities on Immortal is not good enough.

I have 2 heaviliy cottaged cities and one GP farm running 10 Artist. With Sistine Chapel/Pavilion/Free Speech/100% Culture Slider, each of those city is generating 500+ culture per turn. With Pacifism/National Epic, my GP farm is making a great Artist every 10+ turns for culture bombing.

I also have 9 cities thus I can build 3 Cathedrels for each Religion, therefore 9 Cathedrels spread evenly in 3 cities. Thats 150% culture in each city.

With those setting you can easily pull of a Cultural Vic in 1800AD+. Do take note, I have seen better players getting Cultural Vic at 1500AD+. On Immortal, you also have make sure AI are busy warring with each other. During peace, they can win a Cultural Victory around 1800AD too.

Regarding Sid Suishi, I figure that the time taken to research up to Medicine is very long. Sushi would not get me enough culture to make up for those turns where I could be running 100% culture slider. I decide to skip it.

I have no save for this game. But I do have a save for another Immortal game which I Shadow in another thread. Same strategy, stopped research after Democracy then Rushbuy + 100% Culture slider.
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=10650465&postcount=21

Most of my Cultural Victories follow this strategy. Although I'm sure there are better out there, this kinda works for me, at least until Immortal.

 

[vicawoo]

I had to redo this since I forgot to take screenshots.

The next phase: barb defense, teching basic techs, expansion. Fairly boring update, but it answers the question of what do I do next and how do I fend off the evil barbarians?

Spoiler survey of nearby lands :

Tech the wheel next, since we have writing for foreign trade routes, and because it's on route to pottery.

Let's take a look at the adjacent land. Here's to the southeast of our second city, the upper left warrior is fogbusting the nearby land, our second warrior is cleaning up the warrior, and he intends to scout a little more as well.



We're finishing off the settler we were building while waiting for Oracle. I'm not sure if it's mentioned here, but we're going to switch for grassland mines to farmed riverside wine. +2 commerce at the cost of 1 food/hammer.


One warrior will shut down barb spawns to the southwest. Also, a good target for a 3rd or fourth city, clams/horses, and it can share the pigs to grow early.


And note we have to move the missionary down to prevent barbs from spawning 4S of our second city. We have still have free away maintenance, so we might as well do that for now. Later our 2 move missionary will be our free scout into Russian lands. But since we don't have a road network yet and we lack sailing, there's no benefit to opening borders yet.


And to complete our survey of nearby lands, we have a good city site to the south. There's also a chokepoint, where a fortified warrior will be a good fogbuster. So as long as that warrior and the warriors near the barb city stay alive, we'll be safe.
Also there are two workers on the farm, so one runs up to our second city to mine/road when our border pops.

The next part was really annoying to micromanage. Barbs kept killing my fogbusters, and archers kept feigning attacks upon me.

Spoiler The barbarian dance :

Warrior clears out the barb warrior, but for some reason 2 barbarian archers aggressively come out to defend their borders. We can't take them, so we move our fortified warrior back towards our city so he can defend in time, the hurt warrior moves NE to heal.



Workers next so we can get foreign trade routes up once we have the wheel.


Capital also makes a worker for now.


City settled, we steal the cow to grow. Once we hit size 2, we can revolt to caste to run an artist. We also start fishing for workboats, and we'll get a pottery discount anyway. Otherwise we'd just go straight pottery for a little extra commerce and for something other than warriors to build.


And the annoying pair of barb archers come out again. Run away into defensive position.


Moving the missionary down to check if the archers moved towards my city. Since they didn't I run back into my base.


Roading our first connection to the AI. Missionary will move to city to start scouting.


And my warrior in a forest dies to a barb warrior. If the archers come at us, 2 warriors cannot defend, so we have to start another warrior so we don't die.


Missionary starts his scouting mission.


Finally revolt to caste. We didn't want to do it early because we'd delay workers/settlers.


Now that we have a blockoff and a few extra cities to keep up with worker/settler production, we can start on our great merchant. The farmed riverside wine are still worthwhile though.



And our second, woodsman 1 warrior dies to that crazy barbarian warrior. Time to make more warriors.


At size 2, with a food surplus, it's a good time to run artists for a cheap border pop.


We have to start more warrior production, so we don't die.


Our 3rd warrior manages to kill the crazy barb warrior, but more archers are coming.


We move into our borders to heal.

 

[vicawoo]

Great merchant, teching to music, tech trading, and positioning a city to culture conquer the barbarian city. I'll add comments when I have more time. Compared to the earlier post, this is more about the actual strategy rather than barbarians and early builds.

Spoiler :

 

[DanielTorrence]

I tried a non-Oracle approach for comparison. Suprisingly the Oracle went off at 1000BC. I thought that was odd, so I tried again. Indeed on my 2nd and 3rd try it went off at 1020BS and 1000BC again respectivel. Is there any reason for this? Can the AI sense I'm beelining to Priesthood and think

"Oh he's gonna get the Oracle, Im gonna race him and screw him over."

According to the comments in one of AbsoluteZeros youtube videos, the AI cheats and checks the time when you start building the Oracle. If they see the can't start it early enough, they check out of it.

 

[ben-jammin]

Didn't you found 3 religions? If don't have 6 catheral( 2 catheral/religion), combo with Broadway, Rock and Roll, Hollywood and sometimes the Sid Sushi Co, then how can you afford the task culture of 50000?
I follow that road and win at 1942( Prince difficulty).

You dont really need three religions, a corporation, or any of the wonders you mentioned to win a culture victory. It's all about the culture slider, free speech, and a bunch of saved up great artists. Though if you have good production in your culture spots more religions are nice.

 

[DanielTorrence]

I had to redo this since I forgot to take screenshots.

The next phase: barb defense, teching basic techs, expansion. Fairly boring update, but it answers the question of what do I do next and how do I fend off the evil barbarians?

What was a new idea to me is to let the city first grow to size 2 before running the artist, so you dont delay grow so much while waiting for the border-pop. Smart, never thought about that.
Would you say delaying the oracle to research the wheel would take to long (on Immortal or Emperor?) I found it helpful to keep the workers busy and to get traderoutes and faster movement early. When I tried it on your save, I got the oracle around 1360, had my road network finished by then and got a lot of commerce from the traderoutes. However, the overall expansion in your save was a lot faster then mine.

 

[NihilZero]

According to the comments in one of AbsoluteZeros youtube videos, the AI cheats and checks the time when you start building the Oracle. If they see the can't start it early enough, they check out of it.

This is correct, and can be abused somewhat to discourage AIs from attempting wonders. If you can unlock a wonder early and invest some hammers before you seriously intend to build it, I gather the AIs wil sometimes not bother pursuing that wonder - thus giving you more time to finish it.